DB Cooper

[CaretakerAl 0]

OK. So, I make the cut? About time. Everything on FB is true. See ya!

[377 21]

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You from a dairy farm Quade?

It doesn't take a member of Mensa to Google stuff.

Got me.

Here is a young woman with some big cans, see below.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[CaretakerAl 0]

"The Boys" is slang for the FBI and the FBI students at BYU. Mac's initials were on the back of his medallion. Duane got it off Mac's dresser when he made a visit to Mrs. BIG problem.

Appearance was to wear a narrow black tie and dress like a typical BYU student, loafers, drop the pin, by act like an ex-con, carry a grudge, don't smile under any circumstances, ,drink bar whiskey, (which he did not do because he hated the taste), smoke Raleighs. Put on some green camio, get the passengers off FIRST (which he did not do because he got flustered)

Duane had been used successfully in jobs before. He was minor crimes criminal, not dangerous, had an ailment that would take his iife without proper care. Mac said he was Indian and not afraid of heights. He had just been put in the can in Ms. and was a prime target for a special deal. "They" would get him a job, take care of his health full-time in exchange for this death-defying rear stairs jump. If it worked, Mac would follow suit. Duane got a job with the Insurance Co. that paid NW and a full-time aid from the FBI office in Cleveland.

[smokin99 0]

Okay Jamie. Not gonna try to convince you. You believe what you believe and I respect that. I can't attest to snowmman's or anyone else's agenda so I'll not go there....

But on this particular subject, for the purposes of continuity....I'll post this and be done with the subject....Like I said, i did view the original uncut approx 1.5 hr original film in it's entirety. The original film immediately cuts away from the segment about the air drops to the one about Thailand. There is no segue, no cueing musical interlude. Just abruptly from one subject to the next. To my ears, the narrator talking about Thailand comes in at the same spot on the original as he does on the snippet. There was also a link provided to the original film that accompanied the snippet.

I think that when the snippet was cut it was just cut at the end of the airdrop sequence without regard for where the narrator was taking us next, then the editor of the snipped portion showed the second skydiver again.

Even if I'm wrong about the above, then this warrants repeat...the entire film was a long one - about the mission and various activities of Air America during the Vietnam era. The airdrops was a small part of the story and that small part was snipped out and linked here to show that yes, indeed, these planes were being used in that era by Air America /other contracts for air drops, and yes, the rear door could be opened in flight and used. To me, the particular Asian locale isn't important. What this snippet showed is that opening the rear door and parachuting something from it in flight had been done before and people in that arena were privy to the info - info that the airline and other players on the Norjack scene weren't aware of at the time.

The snippet was one way to augment the theory that Cooper was aware of the plane's configuration/capabilities in regards to the door and jumping in mid-flight, and the theory that this knowledge may have even been a prerequisite for the entire caper.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if one assumes that he meets any other "criteria" for being Cooper, I personally don't see where this particular angle would exclude your father, so I don't get the fervency here.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Amazon 7]

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What is the volume of a milk can?

When CaretakerAl first said "can" I was thinking the exact same thing. When he changed his story to "milk can" it became more plausible. Milk cans typically come in three sizes; 5, 8 and 10 gallon. I believe a 5 gallon milk can would be sufficient to hold the entire $200,000, all of which -could- fit into a cube a little less than a gallon of milk depending on the condition of the bills. The paper itself still weighs in at roughly 22 pounds no matter what.

That said, it's still all here-say on roughly the same level as Jo's story and doesn't prove a damn thing.

You from a dairy farm Quade? Sounds like you know your container volumes cold.

Would a milk pail (with a secure top) be just laying around to be found and used? Was this a dairy farming area?

377

You will not find a whole lot of dairy farms in the purported Cooper LZ

Over along I-5 in Ridgefield or Woodland along the Columbia River.... but in the Amboy, Yacolt region( Logging-Clearcut heaven)... nope.. not buyin it.

[JamieCooper 0]

the "fervency" as you call it, is to maintain the integrity of evidence.
the music and narrator saying "We're here in Thailand..." do not come in during the Japan portion at all in the original.
it is a long film, and I'm sure whoever edited it to mislead people was counting on that.
you're right it doesn't conflict with my story, thats not the point.
whether it supports my story or not, the integrity of all evidence must be maintained as well as possible.
the "Thailand" audio was added from a separate scene, and should be ignored! unless it is to establish simply knowlege that the jumptests occurred. if it's to say a person in Thailand was one of the jumpers in Japan? not likely!

[377 21]

Shot this photo yesterday.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[CaretakerAl 0]

Nothing was ever said to me about how he got out of there, but I think Jo indicated he had parked a car there? Would stand to reason he would have something there to dig with and bury money in. I would, if I were going to a place I knew, car and all... Sure wouldn't want to be caught with a case of cash. Duane only referred to it as "his place (he) pointed out on the map." Jo refers to it as an old abandoned dairy farm with a cabin by the river. Mac referred to it as "A tree down by the river." I think is is safe to assume it was by a river. Anyway, everybody agreed that it is all gone now.

[CaretakerAl 0]

"Over along I-5 in Ridgefield or Woodland along the Columbia River...."

That is where I show the probable jump spot based on the information I was given by everyone. I put everything together and came up with the area you describe. Pictures were posted on Carr's Facebook.

[smokin99 0]

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the "fervency" as you call it, is to maintain the integrity of evidence.
the music and narrator saying "We're here in Thailand..." do not come in during the Japan portion at all in the original.
it is a long film, and I'm sure whoever edited it to mislead people was counting on that.
you're right it doesn't conflict with my story, thats not the point.
whether it supports my story or not, the integrity of all evidence must be maintained as well as possible.
the "Thailand" audio was added from a separate scene, and should be ignored! unless it is to establish simply knowlege that the jumptests occurred. if it's to say a person in Thailand was one of the jumpers in Japan? not likely!

Point taken...To correct my "last word" on the subject - when I meant that the audio comes in at the same point I meant that the audio timing, (pauses, music,, etc) is the same on both films.

You are correct that the snippet's audio is out of sync with the original's audio, but the point I was trying to make is that it is out of sync from the beginning of the snippet all the way to the end. It's not like that one part was changed.
I have had that happen to me when uploading a video - especially one I have cut to add another portion. My slides become out of sync with the upload as compared to the original.
I guess my point is I just think that it is probably a syncing issue, not meant to purposefully mislead. I don't think the purpose was to convey anything about Thailand, but was all about the airplane and the airdrops. jmho.....

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[quade 3]

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Nothing was ever said to me about how he got out of there, but I think Jo indicated he had parked a car there? Would stand to reason he would have something there to dig with and bury money in. I would, if I were going to a place I knew, car and all... Sure wouldn't want to be caught with a case of cash. Duane only referred to it as "his place (he) pointed out on the map." Jo refers to it as an old abandoned dairy farm with a cabin by the river. Mac referred to it as "A tree down by the river." I think is is safe to assume it was by a river. Anyway, everybody agreed that it is all gone now.

Which all implies a degree of spotting accuracy that, let's face it, was absolutely impossible for DB Cooper to have achieved.

Absolutely, 100 percent, impossible.

Perhaps if you knew what a skydiver meant when he said "rig" you would understand a little better.

Ever make a skydive? At night? From a jet? With an undercast?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

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"Over along I-5 in Ridgefield or Woodland along the Columbia River...."

That is where I show the probable jump spot based on the information I was given by everyone. I put everything together and came up with the area you describe. Pictures were posted on Carr's Facebook.

Wrong guess

Based on where the Data Card was found and the flight path we have all seen over and over... he was no where near the Columbia River and from 10000' under a round canopy even if he opened at 10k... he STILL never got close to the Columbia River ( reallly small stirp of flat farmland before you get progressively larger hills and BIG ASS trees as you went east) where the dairy farms were and the few remaining ones are.

[CaretakerAl 0]

Duane said he had to hike 15-20 miles. I do not know which direction, but it was along a clear cut trail. I thought the pipeline because it matched the flightpath.
I respectfully decline to provide further information on your proposition. You have my PM. EOM

[CaretakerAl 0]

Never been there. As I stated WAG.

[CaretakerAl 0]

The flight path you have seen over and over was 15-20 miles east of the true flight path. Makes sense as it lines up perfectly with the pipeline and the lighted pump station, the Portland go-around per Himmelsbach and the Janet report. My map is sloppy. Use some good maps and watch your eyes bug out!

[smokin99 0]

Amazon said...

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I am going to try to get Mike the DZO from Toledo involved since he is pretty local to the area for some demo jumps.

Better book an RV space REALLLLY soon

Recommend any hotels in the area?... I'm seriously thinking about making the trip next year if I can talk my kid into coming along. He just rolls his eyes at my DB addiction, but I can usually talk him into making road trips with me.... if I bribe him too.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[quade 3]

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Duane said he had to hike 15-20 miles. I do not know which direction, but it was along a clear cut trail.

Well, sir, I call bullshit.

A man jumps out of a jet at night, in the rain, with no indication whatsoever of where he is and hikes 15-20 miles along a "clear cut trail" directly to where he has stashed a car with a shovel all while carrying a 22 pound sack of money?

How the hell would he even know he's on the right trail?

How the hell does he magically land on or even near that trail?

How the hell does he not die of hypothermia?

No sir. This simply did not happen.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JamieCooper 0]

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the "fervency" as you call it, is to maintain the integrity of evidence.
the music and narrator saying "We're here in Thailand..." do not come in during the Japan portion at all in the original.
it is a long film, and I'm sure whoever edited it to mislead people was counting on that.
you're right it doesn't conflict with my story, thats not the point.
whether it supports my story or not, the integrity of all evidence must be maintained as well as possible.
the "Thailand" audio was added from a separate scene, and should be ignored! unless it is to establish simply knowlege that the jumptests occurred. if it's to say a person in Thailand was one of the jumpers in Japan? not likely!

Point taken...To correct my "last word" on the subject - when I meant that the audio comes in at the same point I meant that the audio timing, (pauses, music,, etc) is the same on both films.

You are correct that the snippet's audio is out of sync with the original's audio, but the point I was trying to make is that it is out of sync from the beginning of the snippet all the way to the end. It's not like that one part was changed.
I have had that happen to me when uploading a video - especially one I have cut to add another portion. My slides become out of sync with the upload as compared to the original.
I guess my point is I just think that it is probably a syncing issue, not meant to purposefully mislead. I don't think the purpose was to convey anything about Thailand, but was all about the airplane and the airdrops. jmho.....

I thought the same thing at first but, the rest isn't out of sync and the Thailand audio has been both boosted and pasted, which becomes more noticeable when you view the audio wave with sound editing app.

[JamieCooper 0]

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Duane said he had to hike 15-20 miles. I do not know which direction, but it was along a clear cut trail.

Well, sir, I call bullshit.

A man jumps out of a jet at night, in the rain, with no indication whatsoever of where he is and hikes 15-20 miles along a "clear cut trail" directly to where he has stashed a car with a shovel all while carrying a 22 pound sack of money?

How the hell would he even know he's on the right trail?

How the hell does he magically land on or even near that trail?

How the hell does he not die of hypothermia?

No sir. This simply did not happen.

I agree with all but your take on hypothermia.
the temperatures in question aren't a problem for anyone from MN
especially with at least 3 layers of upper body coverings.

[Guru312 0]

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Never been there. As I stated WAG.

Wow...I take a ride with my daughter, walk on the icy beach and come back to 49 new posts since I asked you, Caretaker, for some simple explanations. I get back WAGs.

You owe me--all of us, actually---no explanations but...you are the one claiming knowledge of DB's actions. As I quoted to Jamie, Carl Sagan's quote: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Where is yours?

Let's focus on just one thing, as mentioned by Quade: "How did DB spot his exit point given the circumstances of cloud under-cast, night, hight altitude, deviation from expected course and parachuting experience...to land near a place that he recognized."

Think about it a little: He's tying a bag of money to his harness by himself with 550 cord AND spotting for his exit.

You haven't shown us anything more than WAGs, quite frankly.

Give us something that we don't know...something more than a WAG.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[quade 3]

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I agree with all but your take on hypothermia.
the temperatures in question aren't a problem for anyone from MN
especially with at least 3 layers of upper body coverings.

I'm sorry, but do the people of MN possess some super-human tolerance against the laws of physics and medical science?

No.

On flat, level, dry pavement, a man walks at about 3 mph. In the mountains, carrying a 22 pound sack of money and over rough terrain, even on a "clear cut trail" it's considerably slower than that. However, let's just for the sake of argument say he could make 3 mph. That's a minimum of 5 hours and more than likely much, much longer. No. He's dead before he reaches the car.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JamieCooper 0]

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I agree with all but your take on hypothermia.
the temperatures in question aren't a problem for anyone from MN
especially with at least 3 layers of upper body coverings.

I'm sorry, but do the people of MN possess some super-human tolerance against the laws of physics and medical science?

No.

On flat, level, dry pavement, a man walks at about 3 mph. In the mountains, carrying a 22 pound sack of money and over rough terrain, even on a "clear cut trail" it's considerably slower than that. However, let's just for the sake of argument say he could make 3 mph. That's a minimum of 5 hours and more than likely much, much longer. No. He's dead before he reaches the car.

ive seen conflicting reports on temp.
what temperature range do you feel we should assume correct?
if he put his socks over his shoes and tied them in a roman configuration he would keep his shoes.
if after he has gloves and a hat or full head mask.
could be out in the cold all night and easily survive.
could make covering from the rig if not in the paper bag.
surviving the cold is not an obstacle unless he landed in water.

[quade 3]

Best case scenario based on an old rule of thumb formula and 50°F and no wind says that if his cloths were wet, he'd have about a 50/50 chance of survival for about 50 minutes.

I simply do not care how you want to play with the figures, a man dressed as he was hiking in the rain in the middle of the night in the mountains doesn't live over 5 hours.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JamieCooper 0]

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Best case scenario based on an old rule of thumb formula and 50°F says that if his cloths were wet, he'd have about a 50/50 chance of survival for about 50 minutes.

I simply do not care how you want to play with the figures, a man dressed as he was hiking in the rain in the middle of the night in the mountains doesn't live over 5 hours.

well fyi its commonplace here in MN to work all day on construction sites in colder weather with just a flannel shirt, jeans, and boots.
today it was 25 degrees which is considered warm for this time of the year.
we know he had a cutting device, so its plausible to think he could have improvised extra cold weather gear from the rig.
but at 50 degrees, i wouldn't even need a jacket. all night personally.
I wouldn't even think hypothermia is possible at that temperature.

[quade 3]

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I wouldn't even think hypothermia is possible at that temperature.

Perhaps you should do some research into what happens when clothing gets wet.
http://www.adventuresportsonline.com/skihypo.htm

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver