DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

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Those darn blue eyes though. Could Coopers extended bathroom visit have been connected with contact lenses? Occam is tapping me on the shoulder and giving me a disapproving look.

377

Nah. Assuming to take them out before the jump? Doesn't take very long.

If he was Braden, would he have been nervous about this jump?? (our one manifest officer always used to give students a first call a few minutes before everyone else, because she knew their first response would be to run to the bathroom....)

Braden fits so perfectly, not just in terms of experience, but in terms of not one but two places to comfortably hide out and (effectively) launder the money without being picked up - Asia and Africa. Like I/we said before, no-one was going to "miss" you if you weren't supposed to be around anyway.

Damn those blue eyes!!

Any more word on Mel's DNA being tested?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[ClassClown 0]

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Baby it's cold outside:

***
At great personal cost and risk, I have arranged to scan and make available the Braden Ramparts article from Oct. 1967.

best to right click and use "save as" on this link. It might take 5-7 minutes to download.

http://dbcooperfiles.wikispaces.com/file/view/ramparts_braden_oct_1967.pdf


This is not available anywhere on the planet. I have the only physical copy.

I included the cover photo of John Lennon, which eerily predicts his future, and the table of contents.

It's a ~15MB download, but it has good resolution and is in color.

After downloading and opening with your Acrobat Reader, you should hesitate a second and contemplate:
"Just how did a virus infiltrate the Predator drone launch control systems and why?"

The opening is by Don Duncan, who was with Ted during Project Delta, training indigeneous to jump in Laos.
Don Duncan became very outspoken against the war: speaking at the Winter Soldier Investigation etc.

Duncan wrote an essay for Ramparts called "The Whole Thing Was a Lie" in Feb. 1966.


Ted had 695 freefall jumps, way before 1967.

... [Ted's] eyes are the wrong color, apparently.

377

Someone mentioned whether there are photos of Braden. If that's him in the pdf, he's definitely got the baby blue eyes going on. Found this also, but I didn't go any further into the site to see if its the same Ted Braden so may not be.

http://www.specialoperations.org/images/hetrick_slides/phpslideshow.php?directory=.¤tPic=16

John Lennon? ...........Really?.............

[Orange1 0]

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Someone mentioned whether there are photos of Braden. If that's him in the pdf, he's definitely got the baby blue eyes going on. Found this also, but I didn't go any further into the site to see if its the same Ted Braden so may not be.

http://www.specialoperations.org/images/hetrick_slides/phpslideshow.php?directory=.&currentPic=16

Indeed, there must have been many Ted Bradens in SOG
Is that him on the ground? Is it just wishful thinking that I think he looks like the sketch?
Oh where is Georger who is so good at this ....

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

y'know... Mad Mike Hoare is still alive, apparently. Bruce, how about finding him and see what he remembers?


edit:
Um, probably nothing, but this extrct from the Wiki article on him caught my eye - when they were flying back to SA from an attempted coup in the Seychelles in 1978:

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Hoare's men still had their weapons and Hoare asked the captain if he would allow the door to be opened so they could ditch the weapons over the sea before they returned to South Africa, but the captain laughed at Hoare's out-of-date knowledge on how pressurized aircraft functioned and told him it would not be possible.

and this ... wonder who the unnamed Vietnam vet was...?!

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Mike Hoare was found guilty of airplane hijacking and sentenced to 10 years in prison. In total, forty-two of the forty-three alleged hijackers were convicted. One of the mercenaries, an American veteran of the U.S. – Vietnam War, was found not guilty of hijacking, as he had been being seriously wounded in the firefight, and loaded aboard while sedated

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Buckshot31 0]

I worked for Ted B. Braden in Germany from 1961 to 1964. He was in charge of the 8th Division Golden Arrows Skydiving Team. The team consisted of four jumpers. Ted, Joe Saunders, Mike Howard, and myself. We competed in skydiving competitions all over Europe. I would definitely agree with JD's description of Ted. I accidently bumped into Ted in a truck stop in Bowling Green, KY in either 74 or 75. He was driving an 18 wheeler for Pittsburg Glass Co. We spent several hours together just talking over old times in Europe. In Germany, Ted was good friends with then Col Jack K. Singlaub, who later was in charge of SOG operations in the Pentagon. Allen R. Tyre [email protected]

[Buckshot31 0]

Ted was definitely capable of making the DB Cooper jump. I was on a trip and stopped at a truck stop on I-65 in Bowling Green, KY. By complete accident, I sit down at the counter and Ted was eating breakfast four individuals to my left. The death record is accurate. In Germany, Ted smoked Benson Hedges cigarettes. His wife's name was Patty. The FBI sketch with the sun glasses looks most like Ted.

[ClassClown 0]

Cmoon, you folks aren't seriously considering Braden as a Cooper candidate are you?

[377 21]

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Cmoon, you folks aren't seriously considering Braden as a Cooper candidate are you?

If we could just change his eye color (and favorite cigarettes) we would have a plausible suspect. Ted had the skills, a criminal background and a need for money. He was adept at hopping around internationally too.

The eye color is a show stopper unless the witnesses got Cooper's eye color wrong or Cooper was using colored contacts.

When you have to start bending evidence to fit a suspect it's time to step back and rethink things.

It's interesting that Billy Waugh, an SOG guy, immediately thought of Braden when Norjack went down.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[pek771 0]

Braden has a remarkable resemblance to the DBC sketches. Of course, he has the skills necessary for this caper.

However, is there any way he can be placed at the crime scene? Has the FBI checked into this? As 377 says, it may be time to step back.

On the other hand, Mr. Braden certainly has an escapability factor with respect to the US Government, judging by what recent posters have said. How annoyed do you think J. Edgar Hoover was to have the DB Cooper spot on his record? If someone at or above his level tells him to call off the dogs, then that is a different story. Now, alas, we are into the realm of government conspiracy...Yipes!

[377 21]

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Ted was definitely capable of making the DB Cooper jump. I was on a trip and stopped at a truck stop on I-65 in Bowling Green, KY. By complete accident, I sit down at the counter and Ted was eating breakfast four individuals to my left. The death record is accurate. In Germany, Ted smoked Benson Hedges cigarettes. His wife's name was Patty. The FBI sketch with the sun glasses looks most like Ted.

Allen, glad you are posting. Welcome to the forum.

I am wondering what you thought when the Cooper skyjack occurred. Did you think of any likely suspects? Was Braden among them?

Were you and/or others that you knew in the military aware that jumps had been made from Air America 727's over Thailand? If yes, how was this info discovered and when?

There are videos of the 727 jumps which were S/L. You can find them on YouTube or I can give you a link.

I'll tell you where I am going with this. I speculate that Cooper HAD to know a 727 could be jumped. Without that knowledge there was too high a risk that the plane would become a jail cell, no way out until landing and then a showdown with law enforcement that the skyjacker would lose.

We know that 727 test jumps were made during the Viet Nam war. We don't know whether 727 operational jumps were made. Who knew about the 727 jumps? I think Cooper likely knew and I am trying to find out the source of his presumed knowledge.

Rumors about unusual jumpships travel fast among jumpers. A guy got to do a pirate jump from a large commuter turboprop airliner on a ferry flight. Within days the info was circulating in the skydiving community. Was it like that with the Air America 727 jumps?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Buckshot31 0]

The picture of Ted Braden is the same person I worked with in Germany on the Golden Arrows Parachute Team during the time period 1961 thru 1964.. Buckshot31, Allen (Al) Tyre.

[377 21]

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Braden has a remarkable resemblance to the DBC sketches. Of course, he has the skills necessary for this caper.

However, is there any way he can be placed at the crime scene? Has the FBI checked into this? As 377 says, it may be time to step back.

On the other hand, Mr. Braden certainly has an escapability factor with respect to the US Government, judging by what recent posters have said. How annoyed do you think J. Edgar Hoover was to have the DB Cooper spot on his record? If someone at or above his level tells him to call off the dogs, then that is a different story. Now, alas, we are into the realm of government conspiracy...Yipes!

Therre are allegations that Hoover was being blackmailed by both the Mafia and the CIA (see link bleow). I havent seen proof though.

http://edgar-hoover.tripod.com/index.htm

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Buckshot31 0]

A numbers of individuals like myself that have known Braden for well over 50 years considered him a prime candidate to be Cooper. Ted went AWOL in 1967and later was dropped as a deserter. He was arrested by federal agents in Africa and placed in the stockade at Ft. Dix, NJ. The then Chief Of Staff of the Army, General Harold K. Johnson ordered Braden NOT be placed on trial in a court martial. He was given a discharge under honorable conditions, and escorted by two Captains to the Ft. Dix gate. The FBI could easily eliminate Braden by comparing his finger prints in his military records to the DB Cooper finger prints on their files. I have noticed they have not done that. I understand Braden was never investigated or questioned by the FBI. Maybe there is a good reason for that. I saw Ted Braden in 1975, and he was alive and well driving a 18 wheeler for Pittsburg Glass Co.

[Buckshot31 0]

Hello 377...I was on second tour in Vietman when Cooper made the jump.
I had heard that jumps were made from the Air American 727's.
I understand that during the skyjacking, CIA contacted the pilots by radio, and informed them the 727 could be jumped.
Cooper knew the correct airspeed and altitude to fly in order to make a safe jump from that aircraft. SOG and CIA were the only folks making jumps from that aircraft at that time.
I have heard, but cannot confirm that operational jumps were made from the 727.

[Orange1 0]

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Hello 377...I was on second tour in Vietman when Cooper made the jump.
I had heard that jumps were made from the Air American 727's.
I understand that during the skyjacking, CIA contacted the pilots by radio, and informed them the 727 could be jumped.
Cooper knew the correct airspeed and altitude to fly in order to make a safe jump from that aircraft. SOG and CIA were the only folks making jumps from that aircraft at that time.
I have heard, but cannot confirm that operational jumps were made from the 727.

Buckshot...whether or not Braden was Cooper, this info is fascinating, for reasons 377 has explained.

I have not heard of CIA being in contact during the Cooper hijacking before. (not having a copy of the FOIA files anymore.... Is it possibly this that was the redacted portion?

Your comments about knowing about the 727 test jumps is exactly what 377 surmised...would you say this was fairly widely known among SOG and other elite/special forces in Nam? Would it have been known more widely, do you think? (like 'ordinary' paratroopers?)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Robert99 37]

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Hello 377...I was on second tour in Vietman when Cooper made the jump.
I had heard that jumps were made from the Air American 727's.
I understand that during the skyjacking, CIA contacted the pilots by radio, and informed them the 727 could be jumped.
Cooper knew the correct airspeed and altitude to fly in order to make a safe jump from that aircraft. SOG and CIA were the only folks making jumps from that aircraft at that time.
I have heard, but cannot confirm that operational jumps were made from the 727.

Buckshot...whether or not Braden was Cooper, this info is fascinating, for reasons 377 has explained.

I have not heard of CIA being in contact during the Cooper hijacking before. (not having a copy of the FOIA files anymore.... Is it possibly this that was the redacted portion?

Your comments about knowing about the 727 test jumps is exactly what 377 surmised...would you say this was fairly widely known among SOG and other elite/special forces in Nam? Would it have been known more widely, do you think? (like 'ordinary' paratroopers?)

Orange, You can read the transcripts (which presumably are complete) of the conversations between the airliner crew and NWA personnel while on the ground in Seattle at Sluggo's web page.

The information about the jumpability of the 727 appeared to have originated with Boeing personnel but it may just have come "thru" Boeing personnel. In any event, the flight crew was informed that the 727 could be flown with the stairs down and thus it could be jumped. However, the NWA flight crew seems to have had more difficulty flying the aircraft than they were led to believe they would have.

[skyjack71 0]

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Ah yes, eye color re Braden...

Well. Didn't we confirm they had colored contact lenses by then, and it is much easier to use lenses to make your eyes appear darker than lighter....

My eyes are blue, but when I wear blue the blue is more intense, and when I wear green then my eyes are green. Seriously. I realise light-colored eyes change much easier than dark, but still.

Ok ok so I am clutching at straws....Braden is just so, well, perfect for Cooper in every other way

Problem with Braden was the contact lens theory. We had a long discussion about this before and it was concluded that in 1971 - colored contact lens where basically unheard of.

Since I myself wore some of the 1st contact lens (hard ones), I do NOT believe it was possible unless it was a very very wealthy person on the cutting edge of technology. Perhaps someone should vest some time into researching Contact Lens technology in 1971. Since I think it is highly improbable and I am a poor researcher of trivia - will leave that up to you guys.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

377, I am too tired lately to try to find this stuff. As you know I insisted yrs ago the 727 was jumped in the 60's because of something Duane had told me over the yrs.

You and others thought I was nuts until I believe Snowmman found the video and produced it on this thread.

Find that video for the guys and remember even you thought I was imagining this - that it didn't happen. You were the 1st one to admit that I was right and Snowmman proved it.

This video showed them dumping things out of the aft stairs and the jumpers going out.
Seems like memories are short around here when - newbie show up.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Anyone recognize any of the below names:

John Jack Throckmorton,
Roger Allberg
Charles Hosking
Captain Stewart (no first name)
J.W. Edgell
John Mullins
Monaghan (first or last name?)

BuDop - March 1967 (anyone know anyone there)

Do you recognize any of the men in the pictures I am attaching?

One is a group and the other one is a man who knew Duane from the past - but I do not believe the name I knew him by was his REAL name.

My photo's would not download.
Not the group photo or the one of Ed and I have posted them before. Will try again.

Finally - now for the credits on Mike Force. John Mullins as published in the 1994 December issue of Soldier of Fortune. This photo was also publish in previous yrs in other magazines.
I do NOT know the proper way to do credits - so hope this is OK.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

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Problem with Braden was the contact lens theory. We had a long discussion about this before and it was concluded that in 1971 - colored contact lens where basically unheard of.
Since I myself wore some of the 1st contact lens (hard ones), I do NOT believe it was possible unless it was a very very wealthy person on the cutting edge of technology. Perhaps someone should vest some time into researching Contact Lens technology in 1971. Since I think it is highly improbable and I am a poor researcher of trivia - will leave that up to you guys.

I think your memory is faulty on this one, Jo. We did look into it and found they were available back then (I recall this because I was surprised). Not widely, but available. And though they might have been expensive I somehow doubt you would have had to be "very very wealthy" to buy them. Incidentally, soft contact lenses were introduced for sale in 1971.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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Orange, You can read the transcripts (which presumably are complete) of the conversations between the airliner crew and NWA personnel while on the ground in Seattle at Sluggo's web page.

The information about the jumpability of the 727 appeared to have originated with Boeing personnel but it may just have come "thru" Boeing personnel. In any event, the flight crew was informed that the 727 could be flown with the stairs down and thus it could be jumped. However, the NWA flight crew seems to have had more difficulty flying the aircraft than they were led to believe they would have.

Yeah, I have read the transcripts and am aware of the above. But Buckshot's quote (my bold):

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I understand that during the skyjacking, CIA contacted the pilots by radio,

was what interested me. I no longer have the transcripts, but I would be interested to see exactly when the redacted bits happen. None of the theories for redaction so far put forward (not that there have been many) made much sense to me. This would. (Alas, it would also blow up 377's theory about the redactions containing something to identify Cooper with.)

Edit: just to be clear, the transcripts are not complete. There are a fair number of sentences/exchanges blacked out. Georger has pointed this out before (in fact, he reminded me of the fact; I had forgotten, but when I went back to check he was right. My copy lost on my old computer )

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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Problem with Braden was the contact lens theory. We had a long discussion about this before and it was concluded that in 1971 - colored contact lens where basically unheard of.
Since I myself wore some of the 1st contact lens (hard ones), I do NOT believe it was possible unless it was a very very wealthy person on the cutting edge of technology. Perhaps someone should vest some time into researching Contact Lens technology in 1971. Since I think it is highly improbable and I am a poor researcher of trivia - will leave that up to you guys.

I think your memory is faulty on this one, Jo. We did look into it and found they were available back then (I recall this because I was surprised). Not widely, but available. And though they might have been expensive I somehow doubt you would have had to be "very very wealthy" to buy them. Incidentally, soft contact lenses were introduced for sale in 1971.

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Thanks. There is so much on this thread it is impossible to remember it all. It was costly for the time and someone noted that maybe movie people had access to this. In other words the likely hood of Cooper wearing contact was basically nothing.

Remember this - ONLY Florence Shaffner saw his eyes. UNLESS that has been changed also.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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[377 21]

Thanks for responding Allen.

Can you recall how you first heard about the Air America 727 jumps? Who told you?

Did you do any military or sport jumping in Viet Nam?

Had you heard of the Saigon Sport Parachute Club?

Did you ever run into Sheridan Peterson? Ex USMC and USFS Smoke Jumper, working in Viet Nam as a civilan refugee advisor for AID. He was also a sport jumper and jumped in Saigon.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

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I have not heard of CIA being in contact during the Cooper hijacking before. (not having a copy of the FOIA files anymore.... Is it possibly this that was the redacted portion?

Your comments about knowing about the 727 test jumps is exactly what 377 surmised...would you say this was fairly widely known among SOG and other elite/special forces in Nam? Would it have been known more widely, do you think? (like 'ordinary' paratroopers?)

I heard this about the CIA, but I thought it came out of this thread so I didn't pay much attention to it. But this is NOT the 1st time it has been mentioned...hear or in one of the books or a new article.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 21]

It's snowing a lot lately...

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As part of the COINTELPRO program, Douglas Durham infiltrated AIM/Wounded Knee posing as a Cherokee with a wig and brown contact lenses...working for FBI.

He was member of a CIA SF team in the '50s and early '60s..guatemala and even bay of pigs support.

here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=d12rPr834SEC&pg=PA266&dq=CIA+colored+contact+lenses+vietnam&hl=en&ei=cKSUTunMGIWBsgKV3LzvAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CFcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Come on Quade, let Snow back on. Look at the value he adds. Give him a chance. He's been a long time in exhile.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.