377 21
Recommended Posts
Green To bad for you that if you have read past post you would not have made this most recent post of yours. Unfortunately for you . You are viewed by most people on this forum as a Idiot and Jo's Puppet. Get a grip. your a waste of time and truly do not no this case. Especialy if you believe Jo's lies. Oh! wait you don't have a mind your controlled by the Puppet master of yours" Jo". By the way Jo has done more harm to this case with her lies than anyone else with her harrassment to the FBI and others she should be prosecuted for fraude if I have it my way she will be. You see I can prove she is a lier and so can a polygraph test and the FBI. Still people like you would rather inocent people believe Jo's lies and think the case is solved rather than understand that maybe the one person that may have the one piece of evidence that could solve this case not come forward because of Jo's Bs. This hurts all cases and decent people in this world. Still the puppet master has controll of you because you are her friend and apear to be a lawless person by your views on this matter, it is apparent that you and a box of rocks has a lot in comon.Jerry (PS) Green if you read the past post when was my first post? When was the first time Jo ran the FBI down? When was Geoger's first post? When was Orange Ones first post about little Orange One. When was Vicki's first post? and last but not least what post was Blevins first time to quit this Forum?
smokin99 0
QuoteSmokin99. Here it is time for the 40th year candidate's for Cooper. Many claim that there candidate is Cooper some by made up stories, others by pure spectulation, Still there is one that stands out.This would be the one that hasn't been seen for 40 years. and is still being sought after by federal authorities. This is Melvin Wilson.All other candidates has been dismissed by the FBI by using DNA and finger prints. Melvin Wilson has not been eliminated by using these simple sources.Jerry
I didn't say Gossett was the guy. I said he seems to be as good a candidate as any. Same with Sheridan Peterson and Mel Wilson. According to reports as late as August 2011, Cook is reported as saying that the FBI still lists Gossett as a viable suspect (at that time the report said there were two - Gossett and an unnamed suspect who I assume turned out to be LD Cooper).
As far as Blevins thing about fat guys with hairy arms, that's just too silly to comment on, but that's not gonna stop me. Weight fluctuates. No known witness reports mentioned hairy arms. He was wearing a suit which, one would think covered his arms. Cook may not be disclosing info about Gossett's whereabouts November 1971 cause he's saving it for the book. Enough said.
If one can believe news reports quoting the FBI during the last LD Cooper windstorm (which is all I can go by since I'm not in the circle of trust),
Seems to me a better potential source of DNA would be the parachute lines that he cut. The fingerprints might be in the same boat. Unless they get a positive hit on a likely suspect, how do they know if any fingerprints found on the plane belonged to Cooper? (unless they have somehow already eliminated all other potential sources). Logic seems to say that they wouldn't.
That said..yeah I wish they would check out Melvin also. According to the Times piece, this latest hijacker that was caught in Portugal was ultimately nabbed by comparing fingerprints from databases. Would seem a relatively quick way to check out Mel. Wonder why they haven't? At the very least he meets one criteria that fits the "he didn't survive" profile on their website. He disappeared around that time.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
377. One key point. The suspect we are looking for was not familliar on how to lower the rear stairwell he even wanted it left down during takeoff. Now what kind of experience with aircraft could this man have had. even novice jumpers would have known better than to request something like that.Like I said before lets evaluate each individual action of the hyjacker again. By doing so we will come up with a profile of a in experienced person. Jerry
Orange1 0
I agree with 377 that Peterson makes a brilliant suspect, and admit this is partly because he fits with our a priori expectations 
He says he isn't and the FBI says he isn't and I tend to think well...maybe he isn't. Of course his denial doesn't necessarily mean anything given the case is still open.
377, I did want to point out though that I think one of your arguments against him being DBC is flawed... your observation that he abhors violence. If the bomb was fake, then it was only a threat with no intent of violence and certainly nothing else we know about Cooper's behavior points to a violent personality. A couple of empty threats maybe.
Again, this doesn't mean I think he's the guy. But I do think he is a much better suspect than anyone else who has been talked about in these threads, with the possible exception of Mayfield, who may or may not have been excluded by the group as a suspect; it was basically Jo's noise that shut out the Mayfield proponents years ago. Again not something I would argue strongly, but another example of how more credible suspects somehow fall by the wayside in all the vested interests here.
My own most likely probability, I think, is that at the bottom of a river or deep in the woods there is a skeleton with a rig (maybe open, maybe not) and bundles of 20s. I wouldn't exclude the possibility of JT actually finding what he is looking for one day!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Orange1 0
And as I hit the send button I had another thought. 377 has opined more than once that it is strange a canopy has never been found. But the canopy would be harder to find if still inside its hard-pull rig...
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Smokin 99. The FBI is going to leave plenty to speculation.Remember that all available info and pasengers were checked out in regards to the tie with no matches. The cord testing has been viewed. Ralph and I discussed some of these isues yesterday. He filled me in on a few procedures and tactics of the FBI. Trust is definately a big issue involving this case due to harrasment and threats by one person, it is harder for a every day person to make contact with a agent regarding this case. However make no mistake The agent in charge of this case is Curtis Ng at the Seattle office.He is hard to contact do to actions taken by a person on this forum. All agents are leary, do to what Happened to Larry and other agents caused by a lier in a quest to fraude this case by using made up stories in order to gain fame and money. Jerry
smokin99 0
QuoteThe FBI is going to leave plenty to speculation.Remember that all available info and pasengers were checked out in regards to the tie with no matches. The cord testing has been viewed. Ralph and I discussed some of these isues yesterday. He filled me in on a few procedures and tactics of the FBI.
So how's that working out for them?
I respect what you're saying Jerry. I'm just saying..it's been 40 years and they haven't found or named the guy. And in print, it appears that a current FBI spokesperson is alluding to the fact that they don't have a hell of a lot to go on to positively exclude any otherwise viable suspect. So , barring a significant lucky find of bones, gear, or money in an attic, safe deposit box, or clutched in bony hands, seems they would have to get a positive include result to reach a conclusion. Least that's my take away from the article.
Orange1 made a valid post. All I can say is keep looking.
but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill
Farflung 0
Much like smokin99, I feel the subject of Cooper having hairy arms is beneath intelligent or polite conversation; therefore I must comment.
Where did this Cooper ‘not having hairy arms’ originate? No source, report or video of DB Cooper having smooth, subtle, almost pouting arms which were described as un-hairy by someone because this subject has now officially joined the Dan Cooper Comic in the pantheon of provenance-less lore. With constant skirmishes arising over who knew Tina’s address first, I would have expected multiple parents of this little gem would have long come forward by now. Hmmmm……..
Does anyone know if Cooper’s arms looked freshly shaved or was there a stubble field or shadow? Is there such a thing as a sort of arm toupee or merkin? There may be some living witnesses that remember how someone quit wearing their arm wig after the hijacking which would point at definitive guilt. I am by no means excluding anyone who is still wearing their arm toupees, just trying to show a little judgment here.
Has there been any thought given to the fact that Gossett could have had transplants done to his arms in order to induce this level of discourse? Clearly would have been an effective tactic and I’m sure such procedures are available in the Philippines or Cleveland.
Where did this Cooper ‘not having hairy arms’ originate? No source, report or video of DB Cooper having smooth, subtle, almost pouting arms which were described as un-hairy by someone because this subject has now officially joined the Dan Cooper Comic in the pantheon of provenance-less lore. With constant skirmishes arising over who knew Tina’s address first, I would have expected multiple parents of this little gem would have long come forward by now. Hmmmm……..
Does anyone know if Cooper’s arms looked freshly shaved or was there a stubble field or shadow? Is there such a thing as a sort of arm toupee or merkin? There may be some living witnesses that remember how someone quit wearing their arm wig after the hijacking which would point at definitive guilt. I am by no means excluding anyone who is still wearing their arm toupees, just trying to show a little judgment here.
Has there been any thought given to the fact that Gossett could have had transplants done to his arms in order to induce this level of discourse? Clearly would have been an effective tactic and I’m sure such procedures are available in the Philippines or Cleveland.
Mr.Green 0
QuoteGreen To bad for you that if you have read past post you would not have made this most recent post of yours. Unfortunately for you . You are viewed by most people on this forum as a Idiot and Jo's Puppet. Get a grip. your a waste of time and truly do not no this case. Especialy if you believe Jo's lies. Oh! wait you don't have a mind your controlled by the Puppet master of yours" Jo". By the way Jo has done more harm to this case with her lies than anyone else with her harrassment to the FBI and others she should be prosecuted for fraude if I have it my way she will be. You see I can prove she is a lier and so can a polygraph test and the FBI. Still people like you would rather inocent people believe Jo's lies and think the case is solved rather than understand that maybe the one person that may have the one piece of evidence that could solve this case not come forward because of Jo's Bs. This hurts all cases and decent people in this world. Still the puppet master has controll of you because you are her friend and apear to be a lawless person by your views on this matter, it is apparent that you and a box of rocks has a lot in comon.Jerry (PS) Green if you read the past post when was my first post? When was the first time Jo ran the FBI down? When was Geoger's first post? When was Orange Ones first post about little Orange One. When was Vicki's first post? and last but not least what post was Blevins first time to quit this Forum?
Listen Moron, I'm not going back through thousands of pages to please your ability to tag certain pages of interest that you find interesting. I'm not Jo's puppet. I don't even know her and have never met her. Now who looks like the idiot? I'm not into mind control. Unless you've taken a vote I doubt that you have the proper polling questions to say most people on here think of me as an idiot. I've never even said I believe Jo's claims. Show me one of my posts where I actually said I believe anything concerning the Cooper case? One again you sounnd PATHETIC and continue to do so with your half baked posts.
Mr.Green 0
Just admit it JT....You got a thing for Jo. Don't ya?
377 21
Orange wrote:
Can you point me to where Peterson explicitly denies that he was DBC? He says things like "The FBI thought I was DB Cooper" but I cant find any evidence that he has ever denied the suspicion directly, it's always oblique and tangential.
The reason I ask is that Peterson seems to be the opposite of a compulsive liar. Even his wildest skydiving claims turn out to be the unembellished truth when you dig deep.
Mayfield is also a perfect Cooper on qualifications but he doesnt match the sketch in my opinion. Mayfield had the criminal history, for sure, and had mad skills as a jumper.
JT raises some interesting points about DBC having trouble lowering the stairs by himself and his insistence that they take off stairs down. That might point to a lack of familiarity with the 727 stair operations, but it also might have been done to mask expertise that would have centered FBI attention on a select few suspects that knew about the Boeing 727 stair details. Not even the flight engineer knew that the plane could be flown stairs down.
By insisting that the 727 take off with the stairs down DBC might have been trying to prepare for a very quick exit near the airport. Its all speculation.
The choice of chutes is provocative and frustrating too. It could show expertise about which canopies could withstand a high speed deployment, or it could have just been a random selection of what looked like the simplest easiest to use rig.
I hope Bruce or Geoff can interview Peterson while he is still healthy enough to converse. Even if Pete denies he was DBC and even if he wasn't DBC he might have some interesting info on whether the Air America 727 jumps made in Thailand were widely known in the Viet Nam community of jumpers.
I STILL think DBC KNEW FOR SURE that a 727 could be jumped successfully. Otherwise he might have been entering a cylindrical aluminum prison cell. If the story of him asking for 15 degreees of flap, gear down and an altitude ceiling is true, then he was plane savvy. Whuffos think flaps are up or down, and most wouldnt know that the degree of extension is variable and measured in degrees.
I put some stock in Tina's account that DBC put on the rig like he knew what he was doing. Give an NB6 or NB8 (Cagey Cossey has said both) to a whuffo and they will struggle to figure out how to put it on and what to thread or connect.
Still, it's possible that DBC had never jumped, never worn a chute and was gambling that he could jump from a 727. That's what makes this case so intriguing. ALL the clues are ambiguous, even the found money. Meanwhile the Cooper Vortex, the Maelstrom of aviation mystery, swirls and beckons.
My hunch is that before I die we will know for sure who Cooper was and the wreckage of Amelia Earhart's Lockheed will be located. I am 62 and in good health so God willing I should have a few more decades to see it happen.
Jo keeps ignoring my nudges about her latest big tease. So far its all hype and no show. No big deal, that's her well established MO. I just want her to know that we remember those perpetually unfulfilled promises. I still welcome her presence on our forum. Her tenacity just increases as Duane's DBC star fades. Perhaps Georger can make a better gravitational collapse stellar analogy.
377
QuoteI agree with 377 that Peterson makes a brilliant suspect, and admit this is partly because he fits with our a priori expectations
He says he isn't and the FBI says he isn't and I tend to think well...maybe he isn't. Of course his denial doesn't necessarily mean anything given the case is still open.
Can you point me to where Peterson explicitly denies that he was DBC? He says things like "The FBI thought I was DB Cooper" but I cant find any evidence that he has ever denied the suspicion directly, it's always oblique and tangential.
The reason I ask is that Peterson seems to be the opposite of a compulsive liar. Even his wildest skydiving claims turn out to be the unembellished truth when you dig deep.
Mayfield is also a perfect Cooper on qualifications but he doesnt match the sketch in my opinion. Mayfield had the criminal history, for sure, and had mad skills as a jumper.
JT raises some interesting points about DBC having trouble lowering the stairs by himself and his insistence that they take off stairs down. That might point to a lack of familiarity with the 727 stair operations, but it also might have been done to mask expertise that would have centered FBI attention on a select few suspects that knew about the Boeing 727 stair details. Not even the flight engineer knew that the plane could be flown stairs down.
By insisting that the 727 take off with the stairs down DBC might have been trying to prepare for a very quick exit near the airport. Its all speculation.
The choice of chutes is provocative and frustrating too. It could show expertise about which canopies could withstand a high speed deployment, or it could have just been a random selection of what looked like the simplest easiest to use rig.
I hope Bruce or Geoff can interview Peterson while he is still healthy enough to converse. Even if Pete denies he was DBC and even if he wasn't DBC he might have some interesting info on whether the Air America 727 jumps made in Thailand were widely known in the Viet Nam community of jumpers.
I STILL think DBC KNEW FOR SURE that a 727 could be jumped successfully. Otherwise he might have been entering a cylindrical aluminum prison cell. If the story of him asking for 15 degreees of flap, gear down and an altitude ceiling is true, then he was plane savvy. Whuffos think flaps are up or down, and most wouldnt know that the degree of extension is variable and measured in degrees.
I put some stock in Tina's account that DBC put on the rig like he knew what he was doing. Give an NB6 or NB8 (Cagey Cossey has said both) to a whuffo and they will struggle to figure out how to put it on and what to thread or connect.
Still, it's possible that DBC had never jumped, never worn a chute and was gambling that he could jump from a 727. That's what makes this case so intriguing. ALL the clues are ambiguous, even the found money. Meanwhile the Cooper Vortex, the Maelstrom of aviation mystery, swirls and beckons.
My hunch is that before I die we will know for sure who Cooper was and the wreckage of Amelia Earhart's Lockheed will be located. I am 62 and in good health so God willing I should have a few more decades to see it happen.
Jo keeps ignoring my nudges about her latest big tease. So far its all hype and no show. No big deal, that's her well established MO. I just want her to know that we remember those perpetually unfulfilled promises. I still welcome her presence on our forum. Her tenacity just increases as Duane's DBC star fades. Perhaps Georger can make a better gravitational collapse stellar analogy.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
377 21
A curious excerpt from Peterson's book, and oddly out of place in a book centered on Viet Nam, but the author apparently felt compelled to include it. Grecco is the hero and central character.
The book ends with Grecco making a nihilistic near suicidal solo jump into hilly enemy territory worrying all the while about terrain clearance. I think he even offers the pilot a twenty.
Oh, and Grecco drinks Bourbon.
It doesnt make him DBC but it's damned curious.
377
Quote"Grecco had the choice of cleaning up the school grounds or cutting brush along the bank of the Columbia River. He chose to clear off the river bank. He was assigned to a swampy area thick with second growth willow. It was bitterly cold. He didn't have suitable clothing for the sub zero weather. He kept breaking through the ice soaking his loafers."
The book ends with Grecco making a nihilistic near suicidal solo jump into hilly enemy territory worrying all the while about terrain clearance. I think he even offers the pilot a twenty.
Oh, and Grecco drinks Bourbon.
It doesnt make him DBC but it's damned curious.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Orange1 0
QuoteCan you point me to where Peterson explicitly denies that he was DBC? He says things like "The FBI thought I was DB Cooper" but I cant find any evidence that he has ever denied the suspicion directly, it's always oblique and tangential.
....
I STILL think DBC KNEW FOR SURE that a 727 could be jumped successfully. Otherwise he might have been entering a cylindrical aluminum prison cell. If the story of him asking for 15 degreees of flap, gear down and an altitude ceiling is true, then he was plane savvy. Whuffos think flaps are up or down, and most wouldnt know that the degree of extension is variable and measured in degrees.
I put some stock in Tina's account that DBC put on the rig like he knew what he was doing. Give an NB6 or NB8 (Cagey Cossey has said both) to a whuffo and they will struggle to figure out how to put it on and what to thread or connect.
Still, it's possible that DBC had never jumped, never worn a chute and was gambling that he could jump from a 727.
Re the above:
1. Hm. I thought I had read a denial by Peterson but would be hard put to go and find the source
2. There is, remember, a type of person who would fit with knowing about the flaps and stairs etc and how to put on a chute without necessarily ever having jumped...ladies and gentleman (cue drumroll) may I present (more drumroll) ....your friendly neighborhood loadmaster!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
377 21
True, Orange. I happen to work with a retired USAF loadmaster (C5, C 141, C 135 etc). He confirms what you say.
Ckrt favored that loadmaster angle too. I always wonder if he knew something more about that than he was revealing.
377
Ckrt favored that loadmaster angle too. I always wonder if he knew something more about that than he was revealing.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Farflung 0
The problem with the Cooper suspect matrix is that the logic chain is broken with the next link.
Cooper acted stupid about the stair operation to mask his expertise. In the next sentence Cooper is acknowledged for his expertise by asking for 15 degrees of flaps because a WHUFFO? (I think 377 meant ‘Shoe Clerk’) would not know anything about flap settings. I’m a WHUFFO with thousands and thousands of hours in a parachute and know what flap settings are. There were about 35,000 guys just like me too.
A Loadmaster falls into the same mental finger trap. He would know about stairs, ramps and hatches- True. He would have worn a parachute for thousands of hours and never jumped- True. He would have requested and attached a reserve to this aircrew rig- Bzzzt.
He selected an aircrew chute indicating military experience- True. He put it on like he had done it before- True. He opened and cannibalized a chute for 30 feet of line- Bzzzt. Obviously we can at least conclude there was no rope in Cooper’s shopping bag and he didn’t know to check the harness pockets for line.
Cooper acted stupid about the stair operation to mask his expertise. In the next sentence Cooper is acknowledged for his expertise by asking for 15 degrees of flaps because a WHUFFO? (I think 377 meant ‘Shoe Clerk’) would not know anything about flap settings. I’m a WHUFFO with thousands and thousands of hours in a parachute and know what flap settings are. There were about 35,000 guys just like me too.
A Loadmaster falls into the same mental finger trap. He would know about stairs, ramps and hatches- True. He would have worn a parachute for thousands of hours and never jumped- True. He would have requested and attached a reserve to this aircrew rig- Bzzzt.
He selected an aircrew chute indicating military experience- True. He put it on like he had done it before- True. He opened and cannibalized a chute for 30 feet of line- Bzzzt. Obviously we can at least conclude there was no rope in Cooper’s shopping bag and he didn’t know to check the harness pockets for line.
Green You just proved my point you lied about reading the ppast post as you claimed you had previously stated. The reason for my sujestion and questions was to get you to actually read the past post and familiarize youself with this forum. the post was designed to assist you in your knowledge of all those on this forum . You chose not to take the hint. Jerry
Smokin 99. You and Orange one always make valid points. Someday you guys will have to tell me what brain food you eat, lord knows I could use me some of that kind of food. Jerry
Orange1 0
QuoteSmokin 99. You and Orange one always make valid points. Someday you guys will have to tell me what brain food you eat, lord knows I could use me some of that kind of food. Jerry
I have to answer because I have just eaten some of my all time favourite food which is indeed widely acknowledged to be brain food ---> SALMON!Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
In 71, one could live in Nepal, fly into Canada, sneak in and out of the US leaving no US immigration or customs records. The border was very porous.
In his epic novel, the hero ends the story with a nihilistic solo jump into enemy territory. There is bourbon and even a walk along the Columbia River in freezing weather in inadequate clothing including "loafers". The Columbia River passage intrigues me. It doesn't really fit in a story about Viet Nam yet the author felt compelled to include it. Another parallel to Norjack is the hero's worry about terrain height on his final jump. It could all be a coincidence. If you stare at clouds hard enough you can see faces.
377
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites