DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

After Duane Weber was released from San Quentin he was staying at his mother's home in Arcadia and certain items were missing from the home. The last time John (Duane's brother saw him) he was purportedly use a baseball bat as he order Duane out of Mom Webers home.

What does Southern Air Transport, Marahon Aviation Co. N.D. Hicks, Black and White, D. Haynes, sterilize the aircraft, Bob Aubrey, Mc Elroy, "Shep" Johnson, Richard Peterson, Ray Shank, Kickers, Loadmasters, Southern Air, stripped of excess weight, Pappy Hayes, Fred Barnosky, ground Flare-up and Joe Hole have in common?

And it ALL comes together in one nice neat package - names, places and things I knew as far back as 1982 - but how much of this was COMMONLY known by the public in 1982.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[JamieCooper 0]

"When I told her we believed Kenny Christiansen and D.B. Cooper were one and the same, she hardly blinked. "
why should she? it's not like this theory just recently surfaced.

[skyjack71 0]

Maybe Accuracy in reporting is tandamount - on the part of the FBI and the Media.

Another suspect in the case, Duane Weber, was named by his widow as possibly being the hijacker. She told the F.B.I. that her husband said ‘I’m Dan Cooper’ while he lay dying of kidney disease in March 1995. Jo Weber began a dialogue with Ralph Himmelsbach of the F.B.I. and later submitted some of her husband’s personal articles for DNA testing.

That DNA was submitted in 2003 at the REQUEST OF THE FBI therefore the FBI had NOT closed their investigation of Weber.


However, the evidence against Weber is inconclusive at best, and he cannot be placed anywhere in Washington state or Oregon at the actual time of the crime. Weber, a con man and small-time crook, visited the Northwest occasionally, but had no parachute experience. The Bureau closed their investigation on Duane Weber in July of 1998.

Why wait 5 yrs before asking for his DNA if they had ruled him out in 1998 - and in March of 2000 the Agent RALPH HOPE claimed that Duane had not been in McNeil and had NOT been in the ARMY. A statement he would have to later refute and WHY I went Public. Never lie to me or tell me something when I have Government documentation in my hands stating other wise.

The agent told me Duane was never in the army and the serial number belonged to Wavy Green. He also said Duane Weber had NEVER been a resident of McNeil.

NOTE: I have UNDISPUTABLE PROOF DOCUMENTING THE ABOVE CONVERSATION WITH THE FBI ON MARCH OF 2000. I will add that when the agent realized I could prove what I was saying he excused himself and called me back stating he was wrong. I will stand on this conversation in MARCH of 2003 that the FBI had NOT closed the investigation of Weber regardless of what they told me or the media.

Had I not have had that Documentation I would have been at the mercy of the FBI's xxxxxxxxxx and all of you know how I feel about the FBI - as a result of the above..

Even now media and others are allowed to perpetuate untruths.

Later, they announced that Weber’s DNA had not matched a small amount of DNA evidence the F.B.I. collected from the tie left behind by the hijacker on the plane. Jo Weber continues to insist that her late husband was Cooper, no matter what the F.B.I. says. To be fair, this supposed DNA evidence the F.B.I. offers is suspect in itself, since the tie was previously handled by dozens of people over a period of years before the technology for DNA came along.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[SKYWHUFFO 0]

Robert,

Nice work, be proud of it! objective with the others and layed facts with your guy. I applaude the work and will be buying a copy, unless you are giving all the DZ.commers a copy since it is Xmas tomorrow!
Merry Christmas to all!

[SKYWHUFFO 0]

Merry Christmas JO!

[skyjack71 0]

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Merry Christmas JO!

It does not feel like Christmas when the media is still allowed to perpetuate myths and mistruths.

In 1998 the FBI says one thing and then in 2000 something else and then refutes what he told me only because I told him about the documents I was HOLDING. Documents the FBI wanted to go POOF. I HAVE THE HARD DOCUMENTS and proof this conversation actually took place. It will go POOF over my dead body...maybe I should make copies and send them out to every newspaper & tv station in the world....a copy of the proof and a copy of my documents.

Unless there are government documents they have not destroyed this case will never be solved. If the truth can't be told why say anything at all?...this goes for the FBI and the media and the writers of books.

This is exactly WHY I have never allowed the story about Weber to be written - I will not settle for the crap the writers put out. Do it right or don't do it at all...and that goes for the FBI and the media. I could have allowed a movie and a book to have been done yrs ago, but, I wanted the truth or nothing at all.

All of these writers trying to out do each other - it is just disgusting.

Good Night and Merry Christmas.
May the CREATOR grace us with a special hope for this world he created and guide those who inhabit this place we call Earth.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[1969912 0]

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'this goes for the FBI and the media and the writers of books...'

Stop picking on writers. Fifty thousand new titles come out in the U.S. each year. If you have a story to tell, then tell it, but don't whine when others tell their story.

Or as Eli Wallach said in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly:

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'If you're going to shoot...SHOOT...don't talk.'

Well...as far as writers, you can pick on Sarah Palin if you want. Guilty as charged. I once stood in line to get her book at a signing in Seattle. I broke it in half at the spine and dropped it in the trash can outside the bookstore.

Someone dug around inside the can and retrieved it.

Palin doesn't like me much anyway. Here's why:

http://adventurebooks.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/01/1813702-the-sarah-show-cartoons-and-commentary-satire

Don't stop with the first series. They get better.

(Insert evil laugh here)

Take your political comments to another forum.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[377 20]

Jo wrote:

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It does not feel like Christmas when the media is still allowed to perpetuate myths and mistruths.

In 1998 the FBI says one thing and then in 2000 something else and then refutes what he told me only because I told him about the documents I was HOLDING. Documents the FBI wanted to go POOF. I HAVE THE HARD DOCUMENTS and proof this conversation actually took place. It will go POOF over my dead body...maybe I should make copies and send them out to every newspaper & tv station in the world....a copy of the proof and a copy of my documents.

Media mistruths and FBI screwups, contradictions or even lies don't really have probative value in Duane's case. So what if they were wrong about which prisons he served in? That does not put Duane on the plane. You haven't even put Duane in a chute.

I admire your determination Jo but there are flaws in your reasoning regarding the FBI. There is no FBI conspiracy or coverup in my opinion. They want to solve the case. If they could prove that Duane was Cooper they would. I know you think differently but you are biased towards one particular outcome.

Merry Christmas Jo. I hope you get some good news on your health issues in the new year.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JamieCooper 0]

this "Catch Me If You Can." parody aside, whats this significance of the pics attached of Helen Keller and such?

[1969912 0]

I was a meanie for making that post. Sorry.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[CaretakerAl 0]

"Now this point of view I understand. The cover-up theory is overrated. If the FBI were trying to do a cover-up, they wouldn't have allowed Larry Carr to go public with videos and post up all those PDF's they have, right?"
It is not an FBI cover-up, Robert. It is the now retired guys, the "Used-to-be-FBI," who fielded all the calls on Cooper for years, not the Agency, pilots. Conspiracy is a shelving term, this was a Presidential Task Force Project initiated in the FAA and drawing in the FBI.
Fact of the matter is that there have been two breeds of FBI Agents. There were the Hoover Boys, now retired, who did things "out in the shed" to get things done around the system. The New breed of guys have been moralized after Ruby Ridge and Waco, and are now under a new directive given after a certain female Agent spoke before Congress. The guys like Carr are honest, but the old guard saw it differently. It was the old guys that were the conspirators and they fouled, stole and substituted evidence unbeknown to these young 'whipper-snappers'. Carr apparently is an idealist and trusts the old guys when they tell him these made-up stories. Carr would arrest everybody if he could. All he has left is dead ends. It has been the old guys against the new guys. It has been a battle of the fittest. Carr said if I was right, and I am, they would never be able to solve the case. Nothing could stand up in court.

Now, in order to believe this you probably had to be there, step by step, or go back and wallow through that mud. It is all there, and there have been lots of foul smelling things thrown in on top of that muck that nobody can prove. It is a very long list that all gets put up on that forbidden shelf. This one smells pretty good, relatively speaking. Don't cross it off so fast. They walk among us.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

First: Welcome!

Second; I'm sure you have some proof (or at least evidence) for your assertions. Please share them with this thread.

Because of some other posters, we have a low tolerance for innuendo.

Let us hear more.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[CaretakerAl 0]

Evidence? There is no hard evidence. Proof? Proof is in multiple witnesses, and we all protect them, right? I can tell you what happened without speculation, since I was with all and each key player. I have spoken to each about my involvement and it has been acknowledged, but obviously there will be no public admissions here. It is self-preservation, and I totally understand. I have agreed to try to do no harm, but I refuse to participate in any cover-up. Catch-22. I can tell all of the truth about most of the dead guys, but the living are still at risk of personal diffugalties. So long as the courts maintain the position that this Project requires penal solutions as discovered in the McCoy case, those involved are not likely to spend millions of dollars in a useless defense.

I can tell you where each of you has gone wrong, what you are missing, and what actually happened as it was presented to me. I was in the loop as a back-up witness, but was not called upon to testify. Other measure were utilized. I don't expect ANY of you to publicly affirm anything I present her, and that is fine. No harm done.

I can help everyone understand the basics of what transpired, but keep in mind, the minutia of flap angles, air speed, wheels down, stuff was not something I considered noteworthy and did not record. I do have pages and pages of exact quotations on related discussions and apparently irrelevant 'history'. I have asked permission to disclose information on this case. McCoy said OK about his involvement, since he had a new identity and was terminal. O'Hara said to give it to the FBI. You all know the Weber situation. That has become untenable for me. I'm tired of being used and abused, words stuffed in my mouth by over enthusiastic proponents. Second-hand information by well meaning people who do not listen well.

I have no agenda here. No books, no Ventura programs, no annals of crime files, no arrests, no fame. I am a devote' of truth and I do not believe a crime was intended here. The plan was to RETURN the money. You read that correctly, RETURN the money. This was simply pilot and top flight parachutists of the highest caliber attempting to prove some relative points within their realms of persuasion.

Yes, I know you will belittle and ridicule me, call me names, try to flame me, even lie about me. I expect that crude treatment from this group, but I am not your competition. My intentions are honorable. I just can't keep sitting on the side and be unjustly lam-blasted by twistedhalf-truths and inuendo without a response.

So, no proof, no evidence, nodda... just unsubstantiated facts just like the rest of you. Except mine are not all second-hand. We all deal with dead guys who can't defend themselves, and that is the way it has to be.

[CaretakerAl 0]

As you are more than aware, Robert, people's rights are involved. When your lawyer gives my lawyer full indemnity papers, etc., we can get into the discussion you ask for. We both will skirt that issue, so let's be nice and try to be constructive here. We are both street smart and I think we both know a lot more than we profess. I won't pick on you, you don't pick on me. I know a lot more than you think I know. Let it lie. Thanks.

That said, what would you like to discuss intelligently? Cigarettes?
Given the obvious extensive planning that had to go into this 'incident' I believe there would be a very high percentage of professional law people who would profile Cooper as a smoker of a brand of cigarettes OTHER than Raleighs. I would concur with that appraisal. Since all is not what it seems in most well-planned crimes, there is a very good likelyhood he didn't smoke at all, or was even a very light smoker. Doesn't that make sense? What is the association given to Raleigh cigarettes? What people typically smoked them, coupons you know, and not the best tasting. Any thoughts?

Weber smoked anything he could bum, as he wasn't buying cigarettes by the carton. He was bumming my Pall Malls, the trainer's Lucky Strikes, or whatever you were smoking if you got near enough to be asked. He would stick the cigarette behind his ear and smoke it in his own time. If he bought a pack of cigarettes they were the light menthol, no flavor ones, like BelAires. He was instructed to chain smoke coupon cigarettes, Raleighs, like he saved coupons. This instruction makes sense if you wanted to throw people off the track.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

RobertBlevins said:

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….Bob Knoss often says the same thing….

Do ya really think so? Ya think that CaretakerAL (a screen name used elsewhere by Knoss) says the same things as ole “Crazy Bob”?

The trolls have crawled out from underneath the bridge and invaded every DB Cooper thread they can. I don’t understand it! I don’t know why they do it!

I realize that they have the same right to post here as I do, and I would not want to change that, but what do they get from it? Troll behavior is as big a mystery to me as NORJAK!

Once again, I’ll repeat my approach to these annoying little creatures; “Do not feed the trolls, when un-fed they finally find another thread to inhabit!”

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[CaretakerAl 0]

There is a hidden clause. Kidnapping is forever. Charges can be brought against all participants at any time in the future. That is the point of contention.

[CaretakerAl 0]

Just as anticipated.

[CaretakerAl 0]

Is this what you want me to provide? Do you consider this proof? Somehow that doesn't register with me. I thought you wanted something that would incriminate someone. I don't see anything there incriminating. Now, the things I saw and watched, those were first hand, eyewitness evidence of criminal intent. The posters are computer matches to Weber. Weber's pictures are of the man I knew as Cooper, and the story Jo Weber tells is as I remember it being. Is THAT evidence? I watched Dan Cooper training as a parachute jumper being trained by a friend of yours and Richard McCoy. Is that evidence? Someone didn't just tell me this under oath or anything, I actually saw it myself and wrote it all down. Is this evidence? I thought it was. Guess not. OK, what would you have me do?

[CaretakerAl 0]

Sorry, I must be mistaken. I was given bad information, I guess. It was my friend, then. I understood he knew you. Sorry. My bad.

I will have to agree to disagree on your supposition about McCoy, however. Again, I was an eyewitness, notes, and a long list of other people who knew of McCoy's involvement. (that indemnity thing again) A negative can not be proven very easily. Since he wasn't dead yet, and given an almost identical crime, given Mac's Brigham Young medallion Cooper dropped on the plane, and my 'friend' whom I mistakenly understood was also your friend, I'm awfully certain. More than certain actually.

Hey! What about that kidnapping charge thingy? Were you not aware of that? The guys on the Project sure are. Even if they closed the case that is still pending. That is why I was hoping for a pardon or clemency or something. But then, Watergate was Nixon too, wasn't it? Those guys went down in a whole bucketful. Boy! I don't know.

[CaretakerAl 0]

Point made. Thank you for this opportunity to speak a few words of truth on this forum. Jo, you can have them back, you deserve them. Do you see them now for what they really are? My sympathies to all. Holiday Best!

[quade 3]

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The plan was to RETURN the money. You read that correctly, RETURN the money.

Ludicrous.

If DB Cooper lived and the plan was to return the money, then how did he lose control over the money and it find its way to Tena Bar?

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Except mine are not all second-hand. We all deal with dead guys who can't defend themselves, and that is the way it has to be.

It's also very convenient for each party with a pet theory, including yourself. I'd wager a guess this is the real reason that you're willing to speak freely about the dead, but not so much the quick.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JamieCooper 0]

Quote

Quote

The plan was to RETURN the money. You read that correctly, RETURN the money.

Ludicrous.

If DB Cooper lived and the plan was to return the money, then how did he lose control over the money and it find its way to Tena Bar?

Quote

Except mine are not all second-hand. We all deal with dead guys who can't defend themselves, and that is the way it has to be.

It's also very convenient for each party with a pet theory, including yourself. I'd wager a guess this is the real reason that you're willing to speak freely about the dead, but not so much the quick.

the good thing about the dead being involved is they can't change any evidence, at least if there is any. problem is they can't be interviewed either.

as for this Tena Bar money, has it been proven that he lost control of the money?
I haven't heard a consensus on how it got there yet.

[skyjack71 0]

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Is this what you want me to provide? Do you consider this proof? Somehow that doesn't register with me. I thought you wanted something that would incriminate someone. I don't see anything there incriminating. Now, the things I saw and watched, those were first hand, eyewitness evidence of criminal intent. The posters are computer matches to Weber. Weber's pictures are of the man I knew as Cooper, and the story Jo Weber tells is as I remember it being. Is THAT evidence? I watched Dan Cooper training as a parachute jumper being trained by a friend of yours and Richard McCoy. Is that evidence? Someone didn't just tell me this under oath or anything, I actually saw it myself and wrote it all down. Is this evidence? I thought it was. Guess not. OK, what would you have me do?

THE STORY I HAVE STAYED AWAY FROM, BUT MAYBE NOW IS THE TIME to just DO IT and GET THE JOB DONE!


What I have always been told NOT to repeat because I would be called a lunatic, but I have been called worse for trying to do it their way!


There have been things about Caretaker's story I have NOT been able to let go of and others I discount only because I thought they were off the wall...does NOT mean they are NOT true.


Since the ex-wife was still alive and I had been communicating with her, the first thing I did was get on the phone and ask her about this! She admitted they were in the Bloominton area, but only for a few wks. She told me they were only there for about 6 wks and she didn't think it was important.

Caretaker went out and took pictures of apts - and I sent those to her, but she said they had been so many places and an apt was just a stop in the road for them. She was unable to identify the apts - I still have those pictures.

She claimed she did NOT meet Duane's friends as he did not bring them around her. Also she told me about individuals in other areas (not Bloomington) who would pick Duane up at their home and they would be gone for a wk-end, a wk or 2 and on
ocassion for 4-6 wks. He never discussed what he did, but sent her money. He always left the vehicle with her.

Caretaker insisted it was while he was supposed to be in prison.

Caretaker had them there 6 months earlier, but the ex-wife also put she and Duane at a specific Government function while he was in prison...so that also was cause to pause and think. Therefore the exact date of this 6 wks in MN is unknown to me...sometime between 1966 and 1968 perhaps even when John Collins was in Jefferson.

Caretaker was earnest in what he told me and at that time I had few resources to rely on... I do believe he knew Duane and the ex-wife and the story he told me gave me reason to puzzle over this for many yrs.

Caretaker knows that I did NOT agree with some of the things he told me and I thought they were pretty far out. After the FBI lied to me more than once - his story made more sense to me, but also I was looking for answers and this presented more questions than it did answers.

The Caretaker like eveyone else involved in the Cooper case has made changes to their stories and stories do evolve over the yrs...when information is proven or disproven. Sometimes it is the ability to recall more details (such as remembering the stop at Hataway Park on my trip to WA).

The specifics Caretaker gave me about those wks at the apts has not changed other than his naming some of the characters. HE HAS never changed his basic story about what occured at that complex.

He contacted me out of compassion regarding my own struggle to find the truth and came forward. So far this has brought him nothing, but grief as it has me.

This is the part of Caretaker's story I know to be true! I care about what happens to him as I do others who have came forward with infomation at risk to themselves.

One man contacted me about Duane's involvement during those same yrs in N.O. A heart wrenching experience that forever altered Duane's life and the lives of the only family he had known until that time. What happened in N.O. only added fuel to the fire - a need for revenge.

It has always been my gut feeling that perhaps such a plan may have been made in the late sixties, but deep sixed. What happened in N.O. may have been the motivation for Weber to have gone out and committed the crime on his own in 1971.

Did Cooper have an accomplice?
Yes, I think so and I think I know the motive. I have spelled it out many times...but NO one wants to believe it was that simple.

Think about this. If someone was trained to commit a skyjacking and it was cancelled. Then the government reneges on promises made to certain individuals - how would they react? The government trains a low life in prison to "do the job" and then pull it out from under him. The government did NOT keep its promise to him and his records were NOT esponged along with the promised payment - so they "do the job" on their own.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 3]

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the good thing about the dead being involved is they can't change any evidence, at least if there is any. problem is they can't be interviewed either.

For authors, the "good thing" about dead people is they can't refute your claims, nor can they sue you for liable. They are, in effect, a gold mine.

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as for this Tena Bar money, has it been proven that he lost control of the money?
I haven't heard a consensus on how it got there yet.

While there are an endless stream of illogical possibilities, there are only two logical ways the money gets to Tena Bar;

1) DB Cooper died on landing or shortly thereafter. The money then washed its way to the point on Tena Bar.

While there is a bizarre theory that speculates DB Cooper may have landed downstream of Tena Bar and it was carried UPSTREAM by a boat, this is fanciful hogwash at best.

2) At some point either while gearing up or on exit, a portion of the money got out of his control either by falling out of the money bag, the money bag detaching from him or possibly him accidentally dropping it out of the plane while gearing up.

If DB Cooper landed alive and with the money intact, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that from that point forward he'd lose track of it. Likewise it makes ZERO sense that at some point later in his life he'd "return to the scene of the crime" to plant money to throw the FBI off the trail.

In short, if he died on or shortly after landing, the Tena Bar money makes perfect sense. If he lived, the only way the Tena Bar money makes sense is if he lost control over it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JamieCooper 0]

but wouldn't it have been decomposed more if it had been there since 1971?

while I agree many authors could essentially molest the names of the dead, the dead can give up many secrets! public records and such at the very least.
one of the problems in solving NORJACK is that it probably would require supena power to obtain proof.
if I could get a search warrant, there is a possibility I could have proof by tomorrow morning.