georger 197
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snowmman 3
Quote
Now I may get into trouble with the experts on this
but off the shelf smooth nylon is slick. Knots can
pull out. (Coarse nylon rope is far better). Nylon
is basically a solid tube, and when it bursts or tears
it fails completely? see attached...
prussik knot is smooth nylon sheathed cord against smooth nylon sheathed rope. Nothing slicker than that!
Basically, your (our) thinking about this issue is fact-free.
It's all about clamping forces and friction. Nylon has friction. In fact, since the narrow nylon cord "bites" into and deforms the object it wraps around, it has additional resistance due to that..The key is that the canvas has to be compressed sufficiently during the tie, so the turbulent loading doesn't rip the cord off before the clamping force and canvas interact. (edit) and enough unused bank bang above the knot, as I've said. I've not thought about other knot needed, to tie a loop for a a cooper attach. Perfect knot is possible. Can't say whether Cooper had right knowledge. Don't know what weakest knot would hold..Do know that knots reduce max strength by a large percentage...depends on exact knot. ...
Actually, a bag attached solely by the neck tie might have the best chance of succeeding. If the neck tie wasn't loaded, it might actually come off easier.
A heavily hemmed bank bag (it was an open sack) might also affect things somehow.
Basically too many variables. Interesting enough to do a loading experiment with weights, if really interested. Enough variables, that anyone who claims "no go" is ...just guessing.
Neck attach would create flapping money bag, to impede the pull though, as people have said. So maybe no-pull, with money bag not lost?
snowmman 3
This is a random thought I had.
I had posted the first pics taken of a 727 takeoff and landing a while back (taken by boeing). Attached again.
They are interesting for two reasons.
1) You can compare the flap angles used at takeoff and landing. I wondered if Cooper could have estimated the flaps from a photo, if he knew maybe what stops were legit in a 727.
2) We mused about whether Cooper wanted stairs down at takeoff and what that would have caused. We talked about the Da Nang takeoff with stairs down and a guy on them.
The takeoff picture (first) attached, is interesting because it shows enough of a gap between the tail and the runway, that a non-expert maybe could have guessed that takeoff with stairs down might have have made sense. We discussed how it really doesn't.
Just musing about ways Cooper may (we're not sure) have asked for 15 degree flaps and stairs down, and been a non-expert.
(we're still not in agreement on whether there were two interactions with the crew on the flap down request)
(edit) we do know that the exact stairs request was modified over time before takeoff, .from the FBI summary Ckret released (the one that also included the info about the flaps going to 30 degrees when Cooper couldn't get the stairs down)
But we're still not in agreement on what all happened between crew and Cooper with the stairs thing. (no need to regurgitate)
I had posted the first pics taken of a 727 takeoff and landing a while back (taken by boeing). Attached again.
They are interesting for two reasons.
1) You can compare the flap angles used at takeoff and landing. I wondered if Cooper could have estimated the flaps from a photo, if he knew maybe what stops were legit in a 727.
2) We mused about whether Cooper wanted stairs down at takeoff and what that would have caused. We talked about the Da Nang takeoff with stairs down and a guy on them.
The takeoff picture (first) attached, is interesting because it shows enough of a gap between the tail and the runway, that a non-expert maybe could have guessed that takeoff with stairs down might have have made sense. We discussed how it really doesn't.
Just musing about ways Cooper may (we're not sure) have asked for 15 degree flaps and stairs down, and been a non-expert.
(we're still not in agreement on whether there were two interactions with the crew on the flap down request)
(edit) we do know that the exact stairs request was modified over time before takeoff, .from the FBI summary Ckret released (the one that also included the info about the flaps going to 30 degrees when Cooper couldn't get the stairs down)
But we're still not in agreement on what all happened between crew and Cooper with the stairs thing. (no need to regurgitate)
georger 197
QuoteQuote
Now I may get into trouble with the experts on this
but off the shelf smooth nylon is slick. Knots can
pull out. (Coarse nylon rope is far better). Nylon
is basically a solid tube, and when it bursts or tears
it fails completely? see attached...
prussik knot is smooth nylon sheathed cord against smooth nylon sheathed rope. Nothing slicker than that!
Basically, your (our) thinking about this issue is fact-free.
It's all about clamping forces and friction. Nylon has friction. In fact, since the narrow nylon cord "bites" into and deforms the object it wraps around, it has additional resistance due to that..The key is that the canvas has to be compressed sufficiently during the tie, so the turbulent loading doesn't rip the cord off before the clamping force and canvas interact.
Actually, a bag attached solely by the neck tie might have the best chance of succeeding. If the neck tie wasn't loaded, it might actually come off easier.
A heavily hemmed bank bag (it was an open sack) might also affect things somehow.
Basically too many variables. Interesting enough to do a loading experiment with weights, if really interested. Enough variables, that anyone who claims "no go" is ...just guessing.
Reply: noted ... here's a type of coarse nylon
used in sailing rope ...
G.
Snow states:
QuoteJo, I posted the CPS history to try to straighten you out on your memories of WWII "prison" smokejumpers. You latched on it as being a Duanism, not me. Your twisted mind created something where I said something. I didn't. (search back and see)... You turned it into something sick. You should read up what those CPS guys did. Like the hunger experiments they volunteered for. Strong religious beliefs. You mock their true history. So I don't give a fuck what weird space you go into there. People dig their own hole sometimes. You did there. Enjoy it.
Excuse me, YOU are the one who stated it resembled Duane - I tried to let it ride. Maybe you are the one who needs to read up on CPS camps. They took in ex-cons and wayward young men also. Also individuals such as Duane who had a hard time adapting to military life, but then YOU know that.
I am very aware of what the CPS's experienced - note you are the one who posted the item - and I didn't see you tooting the worthingness at that time. I had seen that picture in 1980...and you are the one who must have a problem or you would not be so upset. What happened Snowmman? Did you get a little too zealous and post things you now regret?
Did you reveal too much of yourself?
-------------------------------------
Snow States:
QuoteThose two photos I just posted are just random photos off the web. Guys in vietnam in the mid '60s.
Vietnam? - doesn't look like vietnam to me - more like Texas or Mn. Why are you so UPSET if I am the one making something out of nothing?
Snowmman states:
QuoteI've told you I'm not your friend. I'm not.
Then why are you so UPSET? My questions are innocent observances - What are you afraid of? You come across as this intelligent person and then you go balistic if someone makes a simple statement. Just WHY did my ASKING about these items get you SO UPSET?
-------------------------------------
Snowmman states:
QuoteYou have no reality filter. You also reject all help. Like I said, no sympathy from me. I had some initially, but you don't deserve it anymore.
Why are you so UPSET if there was absolutely no meaning behind the posts you made?
That is the reaction of someone who got caught with his hand in the jar. You brought attention to yourself with your protests. If you had just answered my questions it would have been so simple.
If I were FBI - your reaction would cause me to investigate you in relation to the Cooper incident...so CHILL before the FBI knocks on your door.
---------------------------------------
Within a few wks time you revealed 3 things - intentionally or incidently. 3 things that you did not make any to do about - just in passing.
1. That Coffelt was in and out of Lawrence, Ks - a direct connection to Ross.
2. The CPS photos - one of which I was aware as my initial searches in 1997 at the office and thru friends where in regards to smoke jumpers and rangers.
3. This last photo-The ONLY reason for you to be upset - would be your own fear. It does not appear I am the one who is upset - just asking questions.
Now that you have called attention to yourself - maybe someone else knows where that picture was made.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
Assuming a money bag neck tie stays on, then the idea that the line snaps between the money bag and cooper seems possible.
I'm not sure how to calculate the differential forces between the money bag and cooper. I supposed it depends on the difference between the possible wind loads and gravity on the two objects.
Here's a random shot using some formula pulled out of the air
Force, F = A x P x Cd
A = the projected area of the item.
P , Wind pressure (Psf), = .004 x V^2 (V= wind speed in Mph)
So 200mph -> 160 lbs/sq. ft. This seems to align with numbers used when designing runway signs that don't break off? (search on google)
This includes the drag coefficient (Cd) for flat plates and a 30% gust factor.
Therefore,
Cd, Drag coefficient, = 1.0 for flat plates, and .67 for cylinders
The projected wind area from the bag is probably no more than 1.5 sq ft? Assuming differential wind forces between Cooper and bag are 200 mph max. Gravity probably doesn't matter much, in comparison. So ignore gravity.
So: I'm thinking the static force between a free swinging bag and Cooper, shouldn't be more than 240 lbs or so? I think SafecrackingPLF suggested this before
But we're really going to see some kind of dynamic loading of the cord. Could be a factor of two difference in what snaps or doesn't, easily.
I guess the numbers are in the maybe-yes, maybe-no region. Not clear either way whether the cord would snap.
The knot could reduce the strength significantly. Maybe by half. Maybe that's where the failure would be. Not slippage. Snap due to reduction in cord strength at the knot.
Also minimum breaking strength for a cord is probably a couple of standard deviations below the average breaking strength (for random selection from a manufacturer?)
I'm not sure how to calculate the differential forces between the money bag and cooper. I supposed it depends on the difference between the possible wind loads and gravity on the two objects.
Here's a random shot using some formula pulled out of the air
Force, F = A x P x Cd
A = the projected area of the item.
P , Wind pressure (Psf), = .004 x V^2 (V= wind speed in Mph)
So 200mph -> 160 lbs/sq. ft. This seems to align with numbers used when designing runway signs that don't break off? (search on google)
This includes the drag coefficient (Cd) for flat plates and a 30% gust factor.
Therefore,
Cd, Drag coefficient, = 1.0 for flat plates, and .67 for cylinders
The projected wind area from the bag is probably no more than 1.5 sq ft? Assuming differential wind forces between Cooper and bag are 200 mph max. Gravity probably doesn't matter much, in comparison. So ignore gravity.
So: I'm thinking the static force between a free swinging bag and Cooper, shouldn't be more than 240 lbs or so? I think SafecrackingPLF suggested this before
But we're really going to see some kind of dynamic loading of the cord. Could be a factor of two difference in what snaps or doesn't, easily.
I guess the numbers are in the maybe-yes, maybe-no region. Not clear either way whether the cord would snap.
The knot could reduce the strength significantly. Maybe by half. Maybe that's where the failure would be. Not slippage. Snap due to reduction in cord strength at the knot.
Also minimum breaking strength for a cord is probably a couple of standard deviations below the average breaking strength (for random selection from a manufacturer?)
snowmman 3
Quote
Why are you so UPSET if there was absolutely no meaning behind the posts you made?
Exactly. And why would I post another post after I just posted a bunch of other posts.
Remember when I mentioned pulling a monkey out of my pocket and yelling "Look at the silly monkey".
Look at the silly monkey.
Hey I'm better at being Jo than Jo is at being Jo.
I am now Jomman.
Orange1 0
QuoteQuote
Why are you so UPSET if there was absolutely no meaning behind the posts you made?
Exactly. And why would I post another post after I just posted a bunch of other posts.
Remember when I mentioned pulling a monkey out of my pocket and yelling "Look at the silly monkey".
Look at the silly monkey.
Hey I'm better at being Jo than Jo is at being Jo.
I am now Jomman.
lol
snowmman is chucking slice after slice of bread into the toaster... and Jo is seeing Jesus in every single one.
ps... i didn't read snow's post as "upset"...more exasperated... after he posts "there is no Jesus in the toast!" to find Jo answers "oh yes there is, and you told me it was there so it must be"!
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
georger 197
QuoteAssuming a money bag neck tie stays on, then the idea that the line snaps between the money bag and cooper seems possible.
I'm not sure how to calculate the differential forces between the money bag and cooper. I supposed it depends on the difference between the possible wind loads and gravity on the two objects.
Here's a random shot using some formula pulled out of the air
Force, F = A x P x Cd
A = the projected area of the item.
P , Wind pressure (Psf), = .004 x V^2 (V= wind speed in Mph)
So 200mph -> 160 lbs/sq. ft. This seems to align with numbers used when designing runway signs that don't break off? (search on google)
This includes the drag coefficient (Cd) for flat plates and a 30% gust factor.
Therefore,
Cd, Drag coefficient, = 1.0 for flat plates, and .67 for cylinders
The projected wind area from the bag is probably no more than 1.5 sq ft? Assuming differential wind forces between Cooper and bag are 200 mph max. Gravity probably doesn't matter much, in comparison. So ignore gravity.
So: I'm thinking the static force between a free swinging bag and Cooper, shouldn't be more than 240 lbs or so? I think SafecrackingPLF suggested this before
But we're really going to see some kind of dynamic loading of the cord. Could be a factor of two difference in what snaps or doesn't, easily.
I guess the numbers are in the maybe-yes, maybe-no region. Not clear either way whether the cord would snap.
The knot could reduce the strength significantly. Maybe by half. Maybe that's where the failure would be. Not slippage. Snap due to reduction in cord strength at the knot.
Also minimum breaking strength for a cord is probably a couple of standard deviations below the average breaking strength (for random selection from a manufacturer?)
reply - well, the forces can be estimated. The facts however are unknown.
What bothers me about all of this is: I have a statement from one of the Boeing engineers who worked on the Cooper vane. They did calculations
(made estimates) of the forces involved in the jump. I do not know if this crossed with the Boeing
enginner Ckret now cites who was a member of the
NWA jump club? But the statement I have from my
Boeing engineer is stark and described forces no
ordinary person could manage and survive. In fact my Boeing friend is so firm about this he says, "That you are spending one minute on this is _____ and
I think its a total waste of time. He died and there is no other possibility. We knew that immediately."
So, how an unknown container tied in an unknown manner with canopy lines cut from the one front
pack figures into these forces ??? My take from the expert jumpers here is its problematic at best and may account for how money wound up at Tina Bar after separating from Cooper very early..
Georger
snowmman 3
georger said:
Ask your friend to recite the history of similar successful jumps in 1972. If he can't, his opinion can be safely ignored. He probably believes the US lunar landing(s) were staged in Southern CA also since they were impossible.
Ckret said Boeing jump club. He said it twice. I don't know if he misspoke. The only skydiving club I can find at Boeing is the "Boeing Employees Skydiving Club" BESC, formed in 1979. The data was gathered in late 71 thru early 72 sometime.
In terms of bogus data:
I read a newspaper article that had someone quoted as saying (back soon after the jump) that Cooper would have suffered black eyes from the jet exit with no googles. I was curious if skydivers would agree.. From what little I've read here, I assumed that opinion was wrong.
From their club history:
"The Boeing Employees Skydiving Club was formed in 1979 by 2 skydiving employees. It grew to become the largest non-commercial skydiving club in the country.."
It'd be nice if Ckret could clarify what he meant by Boeing jump club.
Ckret said:
"Didn't open the jpg's to look at the report you were referencing, [ed. the pg 272-273 report] I was speaking to the jump (equipement used and how it would have performed in a highor low opening) which was calulated by a member of the Boeing jump club, of which all were investigated. "
The page 272-273 report says nothing about skydivers from Boeing. It mentions a NWA pilot skydiver. Other data is mentioned as being from "The Boeing Company".
Boeing data was called "free-fall" data and specifically identified as different from "parachute open condition" data. To me, that suggests Boeing data didn't come from a jump club. In any case, if it did, why wasn't the jump club identified as the source, rather than saying "The Boeing Company"?
Or did Ckret just misspeak?
Quote
But the statement I have from my
Boeing engineer is stark and described forces no
ordinary person could manage and survive. In fact my Boeing friend is so firm about this he says, "That you are spending one minute on this is _____ and
I think its a total waste of time. He died and there is no other possibility. We knew that immediately."
Ask your friend to recite the history of similar successful jumps in 1972. If he can't, his opinion can be safely ignored. He probably believes the US lunar landing(s) were staged in Southern CA also since they were impossible.
Quote
crossed with the Boeing
enginner Ckret now cites who was a member of the
NWA jump club?
Ckret said Boeing jump club. He said it twice. I don't know if he misspoke. The only skydiving club I can find at Boeing is the "Boeing Employees Skydiving Club" BESC, formed in 1979. The data was gathered in late 71 thru early 72 sometime.
In terms of bogus data:
I read a newspaper article that had someone quoted as saying (back soon after the jump) that Cooper would have suffered black eyes from the jet exit with no googles. I was curious if skydivers would agree.. From what little I've read here, I assumed that opinion was wrong.
From their club history:
"The Boeing Employees Skydiving Club was formed in 1979 by 2 skydiving employees. It grew to become the largest non-commercial skydiving club in the country.."
It'd be nice if Ckret could clarify what he meant by Boeing jump club.
Ckret said:
"Didn't open the jpg's to look at the report you were referencing, [ed. the pg 272-273 report] I was speaking to the jump (equipement used and how it would have performed in a highor low opening) which was calulated by a member of the Boeing jump club, of which all were investigated. "
The page 272-273 report says nothing about skydivers from Boeing. It mentions a NWA pilot skydiver. Other data is mentioned as being from "The Boeing Company".
Boeing data was called "free-fall" data and specifically identified as different from "parachute open condition" data. To me, that suggests Boeing data didn't come from a jump club. In any case, if it did, why wasn't the jump club identified as the source, rather than saying "The Boeing Company"?
Or did Ckret just misspeak?
snowmman 3
Here's a thought experiment that gets one thinking about how you evaluate what's possible.
The plan is to rob an 18 wheeler on the highway while it's moving..i.e. at around 55-60mph.
We drive up behind it and match speeds with Orange1 on the hood of our vehicle with boltcutters. He cuts the latch securing the doors and opens the doors and jumps in.
He passes out the loot, throwing it to ltdiver who's now on the hood of our vehicle.
After 60 seconds of this, we take the next exit and have breakfast at Denny's.
You can pick night or day and decide if that even matters in terms of success. Or rain.
Oh yeah, there's an existence proof on this.
Remember how the back of trucks say "If you can't see me in my mirrors, I can't see you". That's not a safety warning...that's an instruction manual for the job.
The plan is to rob an 18 wheeler on the highway while it's moving..i.e. at around 55-60mph.
We drive up behind it and match speeds with Orange1 on the hood of our vehicle with boltcutters. He cuts the latch securing the doors and opens the doors and jumps in.
He passes out the loot, throwing it to ltdiver who's now on the hood of our vehicle.
After 60 seconds of this, we take the next exit and have breakfast at Denny's.
You can pick night or day and decide if that even matters in terms of success. Or rain.
Oh yeah, there's an existence proof on this.
Remember how the back of trucks say "If you can't see me in my mirrors, I can't see you". That's not a safety warning...that's an instruction manual for the job.
377 21
Snowmman,
You must be an engineer or scientist. You are experienced in the design of experiments. I thought a tunnel bag test would be dispositive but you have given me pause.
Where is Sluggo these days? I hope he isn't in Ckrets basement.
I eagerly await Ckret's next Cooper news release.
Sleepless (because of someone in) Seattle.
And what has become of Galen Cook? His book will miss the Christmas season.
Georger, good job on the force calcs and estimates. I think the Boeing engineer was flat out wrong about the certain death of Cooper. If he died it was a landing death not an exit death.
And, no black eyes from a jet jump w/o goggles. Many including me had googles stripped off doing one of the higher speed DC 9 jet exits. Irritated eys and surrounding tissue, but no bruises.
377
377
You must be an engineer or scientist. You are experienced in the design of experiments. I thought a tunnel bag test would be dispositive but you have given me pause.
Where is Sluggo these days? I hope he isn't in Ckrets basement.
I eagerly await Ckret's next Cooper news release.
Sleepless (because of someone in) Seattle.
And what has become of Galen Cook? His book will miss the Christmas season.
Georger, good job on the force calcs and estimates. I think the Boeing engineer was flat out wrong about the certain death of Cooper. If he died it was a landing death not an exit death.
And, no black eyes from a jet jump w/o goggles. Many including me had googles stripped off doing one of the higher speed DC 9 jet exits. Irritated eys and surrounding tissue, but no bruises.
377
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Snowmman I repeat this question because IF you were playing a game with me I still need a better answer to the question of the Beer photo with the group.
My Question Is: "why are you so UPSET? My questions are innocent observances - What are you afraid of? You come across as this intelligent person and then you go balistic if someone makes a simple statement. Just WHY did my ASKING about these items get you SO UPSET?"
Not one soul seems to question that photo with the guys at the bar, except me. If it was made in Vietnam - why even ask me about the Beer label - Of all the individuals in this forum - WHY ask me? The post was also out of the blue.
I accept that I am looking for answers - but if this was a joke - which I question - why set your own self-up.You saw the resemblance yourself - or you would NEVER have made that post.
I have always felt if someone out there knew anything about Duane my staying the course would eventually bring him into the open.
You are not related to the crime but I believe you to be one of several individuals who had more than a casual contact with Duane Weber, 
1. One individual I believe you might be - your first name (or your fathers) starts with S or L. You were in the service in the late 60's and you had special training. You have had hard times (basically living from hand to mouth at one time). You would be in your late fifties right now, unless you are this person's son, which would make you in in the 30's. 2. The second individual has access to information from the past that he obtained thru a family member or friend. (He has no idea what he has) This person is a highly honored retired military and has NO connection with the crime - you live in the AZ TX and CA area. If you are this person - I need to talk to you...as you may hold the key and be totally unaware of it. Your mothers first name started with G. and one of her last names started with R.
Snowmman you have more than a passing interest in this as you have followed me thru more than one forum. You were actually a poster in at least one of them - not in DZ.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
snowmman 3
Jo, I do feel remorse sometimes at harassing you, and it has more to do with me than you.
These two things are both true:
1) I never looked at the Cooper hijacking until this year when I saw the news that a parachute was found (late March).
2) A Northwest 727 crashed in the town I grew up in. (random fact I just found)
Feel free to believe anything you want, though.
377 posited that it would be worse to ignore you. The real situation is that it's all bad. There's no helping you. You need to help yourself. But it's fine to be whoever you want to be.
If anything, you should reevaluate your perception of what ordinary people are like. I am in many ways exceptionally ordinary and fully deserve a whuffo label.
These two things are both true:
1) I never looked at the Cooper hijacking until this year when I saw the news that a parachute was found (late March).
2) A Northwest 727 crashed in the town I grew up in. (random fact I just found)
Feel free to believe anything you want, though.
377 posited that it would be worse to ignore you. The real situation is that it's all bad. There's no helping you. You need to help yourself. But it's fine to be whoever you want to be.
If anything, you should reevaluate your perception of what ordinary people are like. I am in many ways exceptionally ordinary and fully deserve a whuffo label.
Ckret 0
In regard to the Boeing Jump club, it must have been an official un-official club for awhile. The files clearly reference members of the Boeing Jump club (1972) and that they were all investigated; as were the folks that worked on that project no one can talk about.
As far as the cord goes, there is no mystery as to what he used, I have many feet of it. it is not smooth nylon, it actually has grip to it. Which is surprising given that you would not want it to knot. It took me hours to get the knots out when I wanted to measure the length of cord he used.
As far as the cord goes, there is no mystery as to what he used, I have many feet of it. it is not smooth nylon, it actually has grip to it. Which is surprising given that you would not want it to knot. It took me hours to get the knots out when I wanted to measure the length of cord he used.
snowmman 3
QuoteIn regard to the Boeing Jump club, it must have been an official un-official club for awhile. The files clearly reference members of the Boeing Jump club (1972) and that they were all investigated; as were the folks that worked on that project no one can talk about.
Thanks Ckret. I finally found something. You're correct. There was a club that first started in 1962. Here are snippets from news articles. I have to read them and sort it all out.
Santa Rosa Press Democrat - Jul 14, 1997
In 1962 he organized the Boeing Company Sky Diving Club and was safety officer at the Issaquah Sky Port in Seattle. In 1965 while teaching at Clark Air Base ...
Pacific Stars And Stripes - September 8, 1965, Tokyo,...
Pacific Stars And Stripes -
.... Cal native jumped with the Boeing club for a while then joined the Seattle ...
snowmman 3
ran into this
nice older photo attached from 1980
(also known as Issaquah Sky Port?)
(edit) found a 2nd photo with the name showing and "First Jump Class 8:30 AM [phone #]..."
nice older photo attached from 1980
(also known as Issaquah Sky Port?)
(edit) found a 2nd photo with the name showing and "First Jump Class 8:30 AM [phone #]..."
bozo 0
Quoteran into this
nice older photo attached from 1980
(also known as Issaquah Sky Port?)
Issaquah SkySports
bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.
Orange1 0
QuoteWhat bothers me about all of this is: I have a statement from one of the Boeing engineers who worked on the Cooper vane. They did calculations
(made estimates) of the forces involved in the jump. I do not know if this crossed with the Boeing
enginner Ckret now cites who was a member of the
NWA jump club? But the statement I have from my
Boeing engineer is stark and described forces no
ordinary person could manage and survive. In fact my Boeing friend is so firm about this he says, "That you are spending one minute on this is _____ and
I think its a total waste of time. He died and there is no other possibility. We knew that immediately."
Georger, not sure if I am missing something, but why is it automatic Cooper would have died when many other skydivers have successfully made jet jumps?
Bozo, I don't see any attachment to your post?
Jo, for the umpteenth time, you need to see the whole picture rather than grabbing at straws and beating them to death (excuse the mixed metaphor). Your newfound obsession with trying to show snowmman inadvertantly revealed something just underscores how tenuous all your arguments are.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
georger 197
QuoteQuoteWhat bothers me about all of this is: I have a statement from one of the Boeing engineers who worked on the Cooper vane. They did calculations
(made estimates) of the forces involved in the jump. I do not know if this crossed with the Boeing
enginner Ckret now cites who was a member of the
NWA jump club? But the statement I have from my
Boeing engineer is stark and described forces no
ordinary person could manage and survive. In fact my Boeing friend is so firm about this he says, "That you are spending one minute on this is _____ and
I think its a total waste of time. He died and there is no other possibility. We knew that immediately."
Georger, not sure if I am missing something, but why is it automatic Cooper would have died when many other skydivers have successfully made jet jumps?
reply - Orange, I was stating the opinion of a Boeing engineer who thinks Coop could not have survived, ... not my opinion.
Georger
snowmman 3
Quote
As far as the cord goes, there is no mystery as to what he used, I have many feet of it. it is not smooth nylon, it actually has grip to it. Which is surprising given that you would not want it to knot. It took me hours to get the knots out when I wanted to measure the length of cord he used.
sorry for another post, but just noticed something in Ckret's post that was odd.
Ckret: why did you spend hours removing knots to estimate the length of cord Cooper used?
(edit) oh wait: now I think I understand. It got knotted up in storage..i.e. tangled. When Cooper saw it there were no knots. Is that right? (you can tell I'm clueless here)
377 21
some people have an obsession for such endeavors:
Entry for December 21, 2007
My entire life I have had an obsession with knots. I don’t like to tie knots, but I love to disentangle them. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing a piece of string wrapped up and over and under itself in a clusterfuck of twists and turns. To follow one end through that maze until the whole thing is laid flat is a challenge that I am always willing to undertake.
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-DHJXQ8A1dKrt.KtWZwUZhwLAJh_rKPw-?cq=1
Entry for December 21, 2007
My entire life I have had an obsession with knots. I don’t like to tie knots, but I love to disentangle them. There is nothing more satisfying than seeing a piece of string wrapped up and over and under itself in a clusterfuck of twists and turns. To follow one end through that maze until the whole thing is laid flat is a challenge that I am always willing to undertake.
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-DHJXQ8A1dKrt.KtWZwUZhwLAJh_rKPw-?cq=1
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Reply: who knows what knot(s) Cooper tied - and
jumpers will know a lot about what can and cannot
be done with nylon. Ive had mixed experiences
with it while climbing, boating, etc. It frankly seems to me the old limp nylon rope secures best vs new.
I mean knots sinch down tight and stay tight especially when wet or cold. One of my sons is a climber (Denali) and hates nylon - he says nylon rope is a death sentence. In the case of parachuting
I guess burst strength it would be important.
Now I may get into trouble with the experts on this
but off the shelf smooth nylon is slick. Knots can
pull out. (Coarse nylon rope is far better). Nylon
is basically a solid tube, and when it bursts or tears
it fails completely? see attached...
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