DB Cooper

[18E 0]

So, on the eve of the new year I would like to pose an innocent question:

What is the required reading, reports, etc on the Cooper case? Also, where can I find them?

I am not looking to 'buy into' someone's argument as to who it was, I just want to get good source material on the case and it's facts.

Alabama. SEC of course. Best conference in college football. If ND played in the SEC they wouldn't be playing for a national championship.

[Robert99 37]

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MeyerLouie says in part:

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'But not good enough to come off like you're an expert, know-it-all on this forum. Again, not good enough, still pathetic. MeyerLouie...'

Show me where I say on this thread I'm a 'Cooper expert'. I often direct peoples' questions on this forum to the people who have studied the case in-depth. Mostly I send them to Sluggo or Georger, for example.

The main reason I avoided reading the books on Cooper, and went for the news articles and FBI PDF's instead was simple. I didn't want any preconceived notions from other authors before putting Blast together. You start doing that, you also begin trying to fit pegs into holes that don't fit...to make your evidence look better. Contrary to popular belief, I try not to do that. If you want to call that type of research pathetic, be my guest.

On a matter of point, I have created nearly 500 illustrated articles for my Newsvine column in the last six years. Many of them were heavily researched beforehand...and a few are considered to be THE article on a particular subject. Some about NASA, a six-parter on missing adventurer Steve Fossett, and one on the Buddy Holly crash, to name just a few.

The KC job was just another research project to me, the only difference being I had to go out into the real world to do much of the research, and the interviews. I've also edited just over fifty books, and written several of my own. That's a LOT of work. When you reach this point, or come close to it, then I will listen to you more on your criticism about how I do research for articles or books.

Blevins, A few months ago on another thread, you described yourself as being a "leading" or "prominent" Cooper researcher (not a "KC researcher") or words along that line. Take out the "on this thread" words in your quote above and your statement would not be correct.

Where can your writings on Steve Fossett be found?

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

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MeyerLouie says in part:

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'But not good enough to come off like you're an expert, know-it-all on this forum. Again, not good enough, still pathetic. MeyerLouie...'

Show me where I say on this thread I'm a 'Cooper expert'. I often direct peoples' questions on this forum to the people who have studied the case in-depth. Mostly I send them to Sluggo or Georger, for example.

The main reason I avoided reading the books on Cooper, and went for the news articles and FBI PDF's instead was simple. I didn't want any preconceived notions from other authors before putting Blast together. You start doing that, you also begin trying to fit pegs into holes that don't fit...to make your evidence look better. Contrary to popular belief, I try not to do that. If you want to call that type of research pathetic, be my guest.

On a matter of point, I have created nearly 500 illustrated articles for my Newsvine column in the last six years. Many of them were heavily researched beforehand...and a few are considered to be THE article on a particular subject. Some about NASA, a six-parter on missing adventurer Steve Fossett, and one on the Buddy Holly crash, to name just a few.

The KC job was just another research project to me, the only difference being I had to go out into the real world to do much of the research, and the interviews. I've also edited just over fifty books, and written several of my own. That's a LOT of work. When you reach this point, or come close to it, then I will listen to you more on your criticism about how I do research for articles or books.

Blevins, A few months ago on another thread, you described yourself as being a "leading" or "prominent" Cooper researcher (not a "KC researcher") or words along that line. Take out the "on this thread" words in your quote above and your statement would not be correct.

Where can your writings on Steve Fossett be found?

Robert99

didn't we have to correct him on the Buddy Holly crash as well? (pilot error) not having instrumentation?
something along that line

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[smokin99 0]

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So, on the eve of the new year I would like to pose an innocent question:

What is the required reading, reports, etc on the Cooper case? Also, where can I find them?

I am not looking to 'buy into' someone's argument as to who it was, I just want to get good source material on the case and it's facts.

Alabama. SEC of course. Best conference in college football. If ND played in the SEC they wouldn't be playing for a national championship.

In my opinion, Sluggo's site is the place to start. http://n467us.com/.

I've read a couple of books, but not Himmelsbach's...who supposedly should have had some inside scoop. Just haven't been willing to pay the bucks.
Unfortunately, the books I have read all have slightly different facts regarding the same incident...so who to believe?
Regardless, I've been told by several folks who have read all of the books on Cooper that the best two books on the subject are
Himmelsbach's "Norjack the investigation of DB Cooper"
and Richard Tosaw's "DB Cooper - Dead or Alive".

There are a couple of forums in addition to this one, but they too get bogged down and you have to go back through reams of flotsam to get nuggets of real information. I think Sluggo's site has links to other sites.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Hi guys,

Ever get a feeling that maybe you have been "Barking up the wrong tree"?

I've be thinking about where hundreds of LE, citizen sleuths, journalist, and authors might have "gone wrong". I don't have any conclusions, but some interesting (I think) musings.

Sluggo

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Just some musings on a New Year’s Eve:

Penn and Teller each simultaneously fired a gun at the other through small panes of glass and then "caught" the other's bullet in his mouth.

David Copperfield’s made the Statue of Liberty disappear, levitated over the Grand Canyon, and walked through the Great Wall of China.

Criss Angel walked on water, walked up the side of Luxor Hotel, caused a Lamborghini to disappear, cut himself in half in full view of an audience and, if that isn’t enough, he got run over by a steamroller while lying on a bed of broken glass.

For well over 150 years, magicians (illusionist) have fascinated us with feats that defy explanation. We all know it is an illusion (trick), but our human senses, honed by more than a million years of evolution, work against us and we are convinced what we think we see, hear, and feel is really happening.

Similarly, we are all convinced that D B Cooper jumped from a Boeing 727 and parachuted from the plane. He did not convince us that he lived afterward. He did not convince us that he landed on the ground. He did not convince us that the money stayed with him before or after he jumped. He did convince us he left the plane via the aft stairs.

If what he did convince us of was his goal, to be successful all he had to do is get off the plane unscathed and un-captured. He did’t need to hang onto the ransom. He did’t need to know how to skydive. He did’t need to concern himself with airspeed, temperature, rainy weather, ground searches, foul weather gear and such. ALL he had to do is convince LE, the airline, the news media and the crew that he jumped over SW Washington.

Compared to walking through the Great Wall of China, catching a bullet in your mouth, or cutting yourself in half while a bunch of people watch, it should be a piece of cake.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Excerpt from Reno Evening Gazette, November 25, 1971:

The FBI said he probably bailed out of the plane before it reached Oregon.

FBI agents and Reno police swarmed around the jet airliner at Reno's airport Wednesday night, but found no trace of the hijacker, his reported bomb or his ransom.

After a search of the area around the runway, police were released by the FBI. Harold E. Campbell Jr., FBI resident agent in charge from Las Vegas, said, "There is no indication he is in Nevada or the Reno area.”

Police said FBI agents got into each of four cars containing K-9 police dogs. They lined the runway when the airliner landed, but no sign of the hijacker was found.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hmmm,,, I wonder if they found any sign of a man walking through The Great Wall of China?

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[skyjack71 0]

Your posts and excuses just get more and more pathetic. Fosset has nothing to do with Cooper.

You wrote about Cooper and or a suspect WITHOUT doing the research - pathetic!

You brag about your abililties to review the work of others - to edit, but you can't even see yourself in all of this. NO one writes a book related to an old crime without doing the research - NO one, except Blevins.

We should have let you have kept all of the errors you made rather than helping you along and then to boot you didn't acknowledge the DZ for the aid they provided you.

Only recently have I been coming down on you - but, even I with ALL of my faults (Crazy, delusion and Off my Rocker) plus being accused of creating a story, I just find your continued excuses and the more you reveal of yourself you - well, it has been said before Pathetic and it gets worse the more you defend yourself!

Ground yourself Now or you can pitch your writing career out in the garbage. Anyone who even thinks about purchasing or reading your book should read the post you made....no wonder the publishing company wanted you to stop posting here - yet, you continued to do so despite yourself and the publishing company.

That post should be on the cover of your book! That post should be in the reviews - you making a review of your own book....and you admit you did NOT research the crime!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

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Hi guys,

Ever get a feeling that maybe you have been "Barking up the wrong tree"?

I've be thinking about where hundreds of LE, citizen sleuths, journalist, and authors might have "gone wrong". I don't have any conclusions, but some interesting (I think) musings.

Sluggo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just some musings on a New Year’s Eve:

Penn and Teller each simultaneously fired a gun at the other through small panes of glass and then "caught" the other's bullet in his mouth.

David Copperfield’s made the Statue of Liberty disappear, levitated over the Grand Canyon, and walked through the Great Wall of China.

Criss Angel walked on water, walked up the side of Luxor Hotel, caused a Lamborghini to disappear, cut himself in half in full view of an audience and, if that isn’t enough, he got run over by a steamroller while lying on a bed of broken glass.

For well over 150 years, magicians (illusionist) have fascinated us with feats that defy explanation. We all know it is an illusion (trick), but our human senses, honed by more than a million years of evolution, work against us and we are convinced what we think we see, hear, and feel is really happening.

Similarly, we are all convinced that D B Cooper jumped from a Boeing 727 and parachuted from the plane. He did not convince us that he lived afterward. He did not convince us that he landed on the ground. He did not convince us that the money stayed with him before or after he jumped. He did convince us he left the plane via the aft stairs.

If what he did convince us of was his goal, to be successful all he had to do is get off the plane unscathed and un-captured. He did’t need to hang onto the ransom. He did’t need to know how to skydive. He did’t need to concern himself with airspeed, temperature, rainy weather, ground searches, foul weather gear and such. ALL he had to do is convince LE, the airline, the news media and the crew that he jumped over SW Washington.

Compared to walking through the Great Wall of China, catching a bullet in your mouth, or cutting yourself in half while a bunch of people watch, it should be a piece of cake.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Excerpt from Reno Evening Gazette, November 25, 1971:

The FBI said he probably bailed out of the plane before it reached Oregon.

FBI agents and Reno police swarmed around the jet airliner at Reno's airport Wednesday night, but found no trace of the hijacker, his reported bomb or his ransom.

After a search of the area around the runway, police were released by the FBI. Harold E. Campbell Jr., FBI resident agent in charge from Las Vegas, said, "There is no indication he is in Nevada or the Reno area.”

Police said FBI agents got into each of four cars containing K-9 police dogs. They lined the runway when the airliner landed, but no sign of the hijacker was found.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Hmmm,,, I wonder if they found any sign of a man walking through The Great Wall of China?

I know of a few folks who don't think he jumped.
A couple of them think he also had accomplices on the plane. I've wondered myself a time or two, but something about getting off in Reno with all his stuff doesn't feel right unless he ditched everything in the air. Even then - wouldn't that be like hurling yourself onto the tarmac out of a car that's going pretty fast? I mean surely he wouldn't have waited until the plane stopped?

Definitely would have been a classic case of misdirection, though. He was, after all dressed like a MIB. "Who's he?" "Uh I dunno..he must be the SAC from Portland."

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[mrshutter45 21]

one could only assume, what was he doing in the bathroom, how easy is it to pull the floor up? back then I'm sure if the dogs were hitting on a area in the plane and they didn't see anything, they would move on? who know's where the hell this guy went!

I'm sure they didn't search like they do today, as for jumping before landing, they said they had that covered, 3 miles back, I doubt it, again, who knows? he certainly wasn't dressed for the occasion was he??

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

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one could only assume, what was he doing in the bathroom, how easy is it to pull the floor up? back then I'm sure if the dogs were hitting on a area in the plane and they didn't see anything, they would move on? who know's where the hell this guy went!

I'm sure they didn't search like they do today, as for jumping before landing, they said they had that covered, 3 miles back, I doubt it, again, who knows? he certainly wasn't dressed for the occasion was he??

It is not late - not even 11PM here, but I am very very tired.

I often have wondered just how far out the plane was when it passed over Pyramid Lake. A New Year's Eve Musing.

Ha HA hA by D.B. Cooper.

Is it at all possible Cooper could have stepped out on the aft stair and have hung there in fear from the WA/Or line all the way thru OR and into Nevada. Does NOT seem likely, but we may never ever know where Cooper landed.

Regardless Cooper did the impossible - he disapeared and NO one knows where he landed.
No One Knows how he got away.

Like Jack the Ripper this saga could go on forever and ever till the end of time. I do believe I have found a connection between Spokane and Weber that screams - take one more look at Weber - just one more.

It will take an archivist going thru the arrest records if they still even exist from 1945 until 1948, but if my hunch is correct and the old file still exists we will find Weber was connected to a forestry camp not too far from there. Would this not be a hoot!

What are the chances of this old file still existing and it being the same Duane Weber? The record merely give his age as 88 if still living. The exact age Duane would have been in March of 2012 if he was still alive.

Probably nothing exists, but WHAT if?

Happy New Yr. - it is only 11PM here, but I am very very tired.
It is midnight in N.Y. and that is good enough for me.

Goodnight and Happy New Yr.

2013 - 13 is supposedly and unlucky number and with the economy and the politics and the world affairs I am NOT optomistic about what the future holds. One can always hope for a better yr.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

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Skyjack71 says in part:

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'Is it at all possible Cooper could have stepped out on the aft stair and have hung there in fear from the WA/Or line all the way thru OR and into Nevada. Does NOT seem likely, but we may never ever know where Cooper landed...'

Bill Rataczak is pretty certain on the jump point. Like he says: 'We know when he jumped...we just don't know where he landed.'

Quoting Rataczak from a 2009 interview:

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'Paul (head of tech ops in NWA's Flight Training Dept) and many others did a lot of work trying to determine the exact area in general, and then tried to narrow down where the hijacker could have landed after he jumped from the airplane. They finally determined the likely spot. Well, our crew on board was 99% sure they were correct because we felt a tremendous amount of pressure bump in our ears when the aft stairs rebounded when they closed. It would be like rolling down and rolling back up the window with a vast crank on your car when you’re speeding down the highway, which is something we’ve all experienced with our ears.

We also got confirmation on the Flight Engineer’s panel indicating that the stairs had momentarily closed. I make the analogy that walking down those aft stairs during flight was like walking to the end of a diving board. The more you weigh, the more the board will bend, and when Cooper finally jumped from it, the stairs rebounded and sort of came back to neutral. Well, the stairs were open about thirty to thirty-six inches under the air-stream after Cooper opened the door—that’s just the natural point where they will fall – the gap between the bottom of the stairs and the closure point in flight. When he walked out there his weight made the steps open further the farther he went down. Then, he was certainly able to jump from the bottom step. So we pretty much know when he jumped.

Where he jumped was up to air-traffic control to coordinate with our technical people. They plotted an area based on winds that were prevalent at that time, and then, of course, there were different approaches to his fall that could have occurred. When did he deploy the chute, for example? Did he deploy it immediately? If he did, then he would be carried farther from the jump point by the wind...'

Personally, I never held with the idea that Cooper remained on board and then somehow slipped away in Reno after the plane was searched. Especially if they used K-9's in the search. Those dogs are pretty hard to fool.

not saying it happened, but I'm sure it has crossed many minds, again back then they didn't search as good as today and the dogs might have been hitting on a area he was at and they simply wrote it off as a hot scent, nothing to be really read into, just a thought....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Check this site out - I had never heard this remark before and do not know the author or the source.

"After the money and parachutes were brought aboard, the 35 other passengers, along with 2 of the stewardesses - Schaffner and Hancock - were released. The man in 18E instructed the plane to take off again. He directed that the plane's route pass over Portland and Medford in Oregon, and Red Bluff, California, before landing in Reno, Nevada, to refuel. Then, on to Yuma, Arizona, to refuel again, and then head to Mexico. He also instructed the pilots that the aircraft was to remain below 10,000 feet, maintain minimal airspeed, and keep flaps and landing gear lowered."

Where did this site get this information?

www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/NWA305-DBCooper.htm

Do not know how to paste urls, but perhaps this need to be look at at least as to what the Source
of the flight information waa.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

I have seen this site, sounds like a lot of shooting from the hip.not every site will be accurate, I'll see if a contact is on the site.

[email protected] email address

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

what condition do you think anything linked to Cooper would look like after being in the elements 40+ years? how much metal is on it and what would be the condition of that metal?

I don't even see a reason why he would bury anything in the middle of a Forrest? as for the body, do you recall what they found of Fossett, not much and what was the time frame on that?

we seen what happened to the money in less than 10 year, I wouldn't check anything without having more proof to even think of a search, let alone searching square miles.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

wrong on Fossett:

The 63-year-old financier died when his single-engine craft slammed into eastern California's Inyo National Forest last year, they said, and most of his remains were devoured by wild animals. National Transportation Safety Board officials said searchers found enough at the crash site to provide coroners with DNA.

same with Buddy Holly, the bodies were crushed and yet easily recognizable, left out in the elements and your body belongs to the critters, Holly crash was found the next day

Fossett Died 2007 body found 2008 more than a few months....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

let's say Cooper got his chute open, if he hit the woods what is the percentage his chute got between the trees and on the ground to bury it? if he got stuck in them he could of cut himself down, but the chute would be seen you would think. has anyone figured out what color the chute was?

now Cooper has cut himself down, all he has now is the money and the briefcase, odds you would think would be he covered the briefcase and hauled butt outta there with the money. the FBI is looking for the chute and Cooper, not his briefcase that he could of easily hidden without digging a hole.

just one of a dozen different ways it could of went down....

chutes stuck in trees (see photo)

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[377 21]

Mr Shutter wrote

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what condition do you think anything linked to Cooper would look like after being in the elements 40+ years? how much metal is on it and what would be the condition of that metal?

If he went in as a no pull the stainless steel ripcord cable would last for centuries. If he pulled and tossed the ripcord, same outcome, but harder to find if separated from the harness and container. The cadmium plated metal hardware on the Navy harness would be intact for far longer than Cooper has been missing. Hard to say about the fabric material since its longevity can vary so much in different environments. UV rips that stuff up fast.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

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Mr Shutter wrote

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what condition do you think anything linked to Cooper would look like after being in the elements 40+ years? how much metal is on it and what would be the condition of that metal?

If he went in as a no pull the stainless steel ripcord cable would last for centuries. If he pulled and tossed the ripcord, same outcome, but harder to find if separated from the harness and container. The cadmium plated metal hardware on the Navy harness would be intact for far longer than Cooper has been missing. Hard to say about the fabric material since its longevity can vary so much in different environments. UV rips that stuff up fast.

377

understood, my main problem with the metal was the amount or size of the metals left after years of exposure making it very difficult to find with a metal detector as Robert suggested, using a metal detector looking for a ripcord in a large area would be pointless if not impossible

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[MeyerLouie 5]

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MeyerLouie says in part:

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'But not good enough to come off like you're an expert, know-it-all on this forum. Again, not good enough, still pathetic. MeyerLouie...'

Show me where I say on this thread I'm a 'Cooper expert'. I often direct peoples' questions on this forum to the people who have studied the case in-depth. Mostly I send them to Sluggo or Georger, for example.

The main reason I avoided reading the books on Cooper, and went for the news articles and FBI PDF's instead was simple. I didn't want any preconceived notions from other authors before putting Blast together. You start doing that, you also begin trying to fit pegs into holes that don't fit...to make your evidence look better. Contrary to popular belief, I try not to do that. If you want to call that type of research pathetic, be my guest.

On a matter of point, I have created nearly 500 illustrated articles for my Newsvine column in the last six years. Many of them were heavily researched beforehand...and a few are considered to be THE article on a particular subject. Some about NASA, a six-parter on missing adventurer Steve Fossett, and one on the Buddy Holly crash, to name just a few.

The KC job was just another research project to me, the only difference being I had to go out into the real world to do much of the research, and the interviews. I've also edited just over fifty books, and written several of my own. That's a LOT of work. When you reach this point, or come close to it, then I will listen to you more on your criticism about how I do research for articles or books.

You missed the point again, as usual. Since you've admitted you're not an expert, then quit posting like you are. You reply to anything and everything, much of which you know so little about, since, as you have just confessed, you are not a Cooper expert.

You didn't want to have any preconceived ideas -- that's what kept you from reading up on the topic? That's so ridiculous -- a new low for you. You do a review of the literature to get the pertinent information from the key players, so you don't duplicate their work or come off uninformed (which will happen if you haven't read the seminal work on the subject).

You heavily researched nearly 500 illustrated articles? So why isn't the Cooper case important enough to you to give it proper research? This is why I use the word 'pathetic' to describe your approach to research. Take a research class Blevins, learn to do research correctly. That's how you build credibility.

And by the way, I've done proper, thorough, and scholarly research, using APA format, and I've published my findings. When I take it upon myself to expound on or explain something here, it means I have had some training and/or experience in the matter. I try not to shoot off my big mouth and sound like an expert when I'm not.

MeyerLouie

[Robert99 37]

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Mr Shutter wrote

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what condition do you think anything linked to Cooper would look like after being in the elements 40+ years? how much metal is on it and what would be the condition of that metal?

If he went in as a no pull the stainless steel ripcord cable would last for centuries. If he pulled and tossed the ripcord, same outcome, but harder to find if separated from the harness and container. The cadmium plated metal hardware on the Navy harness would be intact for far longer than Cooper has been missing. Hard to say about the fabric material since its longevity can vary so much in different environments. UV rips that stuff up fast.

377

understood, my main problem with the metal was the amount or size of the metals left after years of exposure making it very difficult to find with a metal detector as Robert suggested, using a metal detector looking for a ripcord in a large area would be pointless if not impossible

The NB-6 parachute assembly alone has about two pounds of metal that will react to a metal detector. In addition to the metal in the parachute assembly, Cooper also had a pocket knife, which he apparently routinely carried, a belt buckle, and other metal in his clothing and shoes.

Presumably, Cooper put the NB-6 parachute over his raincoat. If Cooper was a no-pull, it is reasonable to expect that the raincoat, parachute, and other clothing, would keep at least some of the major bones contained in a small area for quite a while. If the money bag was made out of a durable material and tied to the harness, as well as Cooper's waist, then portions of it should survive for a lengthy time also (forget about the money, it is gone).

In reality, you would be looking for a relatively large amount of metal in a fairly small area (about 2 by 3 feet). I have been assured by a leading metal detector company that all of their current metal detectors (as sold to hobbyists) could locate this under more than one foot of soil.

For where Cooper might have impacted, see previous posts on the constraints concerning how the money could have gotten to Tena Bar. There is no need to search fifty square miles or so.

Robert99

[Robert99 37]

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wrong on Fossett:

The 63-year-old financier died when his single-engine craft slammed into eastern California's Inyo National Forest last year, they said, and most of his remains were devoured by wild animals. National Transportation Safety Board officials said searchers found enough at the crash site to provide coroners with DNA.

same with Buddy Holly, the bodies were crushed and yet easily recognizable, left out in the elements and your body belongs to the critters, Holly crash was found the next day

Fossett Died 2007 body found 2008 more than a few months....

Fossett was found one year and approximately one week after he disappeared. Only a very small bone portion of the body was found but it apparently was enough for DNA testing.

As Mrshutter points out, if you want to find more of Fossett you are going to have to locate some animal dens first.

Fossett crashed when he flew into a severe downdraft that he could not escape horizontally (he was quite low with respect to the local terrain) and could not climb out of vertically (he was about 10,000 feet ASL).

Robert99

[Amazon 7]

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Mr Shutter wrote

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what condition do you think anything linked to Cooper would look like after being in the elements 40+ years? how much metal is on it and what would be the condition of that metal?

If he went in as a no pull the stainless steel ripcord cable would last for centuries. If he pulled and tossed the ripcord, same outcome, but harder to find if separated from the harness and container. The cadmium plated metal hardware on the Navy harness would be intact for far longer than Cooper has been missing. Hard to say about the fabric material since its longevity can vary so much in different environments. UV rips that stuff up fast.

377

UV in a mixed Alder-Douglas Fir- Western Hemlock-Western Red Cedar FOREST in the Pacific NorthWET????

The harness and even a good percentage of the canopy would be quite fine thank you.

[mrshutter45 21]

let's talk coverage vs amount of metal, one square mile is 27,878,400 sq. ft
how much brush will be in the way of the metal detector? the human body is
about 7 sq ft, I think we can conclude if the briefcase was there it would be
gone by now? a metal detector can reach depths of 25" but how well will it
work in a Forrest?

how many military bodies did we already have searching for Cooper in the
supposed drop zone, hundreds? with zero return right after the crime. If
you ask me I think it's going to be pretty damn hard to find 7 sq feet of
real estate in a square mile with a metal detector unless you have more
solid proof of where he landed in order to justify such a search, even searching
Caterpillar Island would be a costly search which would call for GPR or
Ground Penetrating Radar along with metal detectors and a good team.

you need more definitive evidence of a LZ before venturing out with a metal
detector in such a large search area IMO, the concept is plausible only if you
can narrow the search down.... 200 Army soldiers and a total of eighteen
days in March, and then an additional eighteen days in April resulting in
nothing, good luck with a couple guys and a metal detector


website below shows a metal detector depth test....




http://www.garysdetecting.co.uk/hoard_test.htm

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Robert99 37]

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Blevins writes:

640 acres is a lot of area for a possible search. That's roughly the equivelent of one square mile.

R99 replies:

For your information, 640 acres is EXACTLY one square mile.

Blevins writes:

1) The placard was found, but nothing else. And the other items are BIGGER.

2) The area of the dropzone is heavily used at all times of the year by hunters, fishermen, hikers, Boy Scouts, mushroom hunters, (they go EVERYWHERE) four-wheelers, campers, loggers, etc.

3) If anyone actually found something that could be verified as 100% Cooper-related, they could end up collecting a lot of money like Brian Ingram did with the Tina Bar money.

4) Might be able to determine whether the hijacker lived or died. If the item(s) were purposely buried, but no body is around, then you have to assume he probably lived.

5) Might give clues to the identity of the hijacker.

6) Might even find the hijacker himself, or what is left of him, at the same spot.

7) The parachute, briefcase, (hopefully) phony bomb, and Cooper went SOMEWHERE. Chances are low that if Cooper survived he actually tried to pack out those items. If not, then they are still in the woods.

8) If you were able to narrow down the search to a few select spots, the chances are greater someone would eventually find SOMETHING.

R99 replies:

From the above it might be a good idea for Blevins to look at the data.

Something else was found. Can you name it?

On the matter of the brief case and the "bomb", of what use were they to Cooper once Tina went to the cockpit? Would "absolutely nothing" be a reasonable answer?

On the matter of drop zones, what is the location of the one you are referring to? Search anywhere you want, but you won't find Cooper without looking at his actual jump point.

Your whole jump zone scenario reminds me of a story from, I think, a book by Carlos Castenada. On the last two or three pages of that book (pages 125-127, I believe), Castenada explains that the characters in his book didn't find the cities of gold, for which they had been searching, because those cities never existed in the first place. Castenada then explains that they DID find a beautiful place to search for their dreams.

Dream on.

Robert99

[mrshutter45 21]

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Mr Shutter wrote

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what condition do you think anything linked to Cooper would look like after being in the elements 40+ years? how much metal is on it and what would be the condition of that metal?

If he went in as a no pull the stainless steel ripcord cable would last for centuries. If he pulled and tossed the ripcord, same outcome, but harder to find if separated from the harness and container. The cadmium plated metal hardware on the Navy harness would be intact for far longer than Cooper has been missing. Hard to say about the fabric material since its longevity can vary so much in different environments. UV rips that stuff up fast.

377

UV in a mixed Alder-Douglas Fir- Western Hemlock-Western Red Cedar FOREST in the Pacific NorthWET????

The harness and even a good percentage of the canopy would be quite fine thank you.

is any metal on the canopy? again still very hard to locate after so much time has passed.....

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[Amazon 7]

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Mr Shutter wrote

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what condition do you think anything linked to Cooper would look like after being in the elements 40+ years? how much metal is on it and what would be the condition of that metal?

If he went in as a no pull the stainless steel ripcord cable would last for centuries. If he pulled and tossed the ripcord, same outcome, but harder to find if separated from the harness and container. The cadmium plated metal hardware on the Navy harness would be intact for far longer than Cooper has been missing. Hard to say about the fabric material since its longevity can vary so much in different environments. UV rips that stuff up fast.

377

UV in a mixed Alder-Douglas Fir- Western Hemlock-Western Red Cedar FOREST in the Pacific NorthWET????

The harness and even a good percentage of the canopy would be quite fine thank you.

is any metal on the canopy? again still very hard to locate after so much time has passed.....

A canopy of that type would have 4 metal pieces.. two connectors that the risers connect to the suspension lines.. and two male components ( 4 oz each) that connect the risers to the female portion of the Capewell.
I have also attached a couple piccies of the types of connectors used at the time.
here is a search for all the other metal "stuff" that a harness could have on it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=parachute+hardware&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Y0bjUNy_J4qaiALR9IHoCg&sqi=2&ved=0CFAQsAQ&biw=1230&bih=615