DB Cooper

[Ckret 0]

Whffo, can't talk about the chute yet.

[Ckret 0]

Albert,

I always wondered what he did in the bathroom, maybe just what most of us do, but it seems risky to me to go into the bathroom and loose contact with those your trying to control.

[Ckret 0]

1969912,

there are more com's and i will get it to you all as soon as I can. I have found the best way is to give it to the media so they can spend the time scanning it.

[Ckret 0]

low pull

You bring up a great point and i can't believe I did not think about this before. We have a great example of how a known expert would do this jump and a novice. If we overlay McCoy to Cooper you devlope clarity as to how it should have been done. McCoy was far different than Cooper and was done how an experienced jumper would have done it.

Great more to do, unless there is a McCoy expert out there willing to do it, anyone?

[Ckret 0]

Quade,

great point, which goes right to the fact that by the time Cooper actually jumped conditions were worse than at sunset. Where Cooper jumped there would have been no lights under the clouds. Most likely nothing but darkness, Cooper had no idea where he was at when he jumped,he did not even know the flight path the pilots took out of Seatac. So much for planning this thing out.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Line AB did not account for variation "tolerance" in the flight path. The map included such half nautical mile variance, but the calculated drift lines and points were derived using the actual USAF radar points.

The following is directly from that document with names removed when applicable.

January 9, 1972 FBI calculated landing area map & explanation details:

Aircraft position from USAF radar data from McChord AFB

Probable jump time (0411 GMT) from an analysis of the recorded communication from the flight relative to the cabin pressure flucuation. Flight tests conducted on January 6 confirmed that the pressure flucuation almost certainly occured at the time the HJ left the airplane.

Wind information from 10,000' MSL to the ground as determined by NWA Meteorlogy Chief.

Human body trajectories from data furnished by The Boeing Company (free-fall) and NWA Pilot (parachute open condition) who is an expert parachutist.

Time correlation from the above USAF radar information and from the NWA communications network tape recording.

Airplane airspeed and altitude from the airplane's flight recorder.

The debate will rage forever unless a positive ID can be made on the recovered canopy. The question everyone has to ask themselves is to what degree they trust the inputs that were used in calculating the probable landing area.

Shifting the timeline out several minutes would indicate there was a gigantic amount of error in one of the inputs. Shifting the location east would indicate a gigantic error in the USAF radar.

On last night's Unsolved History, I was able to freeze frame on Roy Haggard's map. He had the location of the recovered ransom (which was an erroneous location) and a flight path with timeline marked on a map. According to Roy Haggard's map and calculated timeline, the plane would have crossed the Columbia River at 8:18.

If the timeline is truly 8:15-8:20 instead of the calculated 8:11, it would be nice to know what changes in data input were deemed to be inaccurate, and why.

[Ckret 0]

Orange

There are people named Dan Cooper, one of them had a minor criminal record. Law enforcement was doing back grounds on all Dan Coopers while the plane was still in the air

[Ckret 0]

dumstuntzz

He took the NB6 and demo with him. He left the Pioneer sport main and belley reserve he cut on the plane

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I've always felt that McCoy's heist was much better executed than Cooper's. He specified a location to fly, he (may have) had his own gear with him, and he wore a disguise amongst other improvements.

McCoy's problem was his big mouth and his leaving behind prints.

So confirmation on Cooper actually using the lavatory during the heist. WOW... do people still think he had it all planned flawlessly?

[SKYWHUFFO 1]

Just playing devils advocate,
You can think of it this way, you get better with practice. Mccoy learned from the first jump. I.E. what gear you get when you ask for unframiliar gear, so bring your own. What to expect when you leave the step. IF it was him, though why were his prints identified in jump #2 and not Coopers jump.
IF he did jump #1(cooper) and lost the money, wouldn't the thought of jump #2 start crossing his mind.

The lavatory incident tells me one of two things to me. personally, when i jump if i gotta go i go when i hear first call for my load. sorta ritual.OR this guy was freaking out and just was either about to P!$$ his pants or he just left the in flight meal behind before the jump.

[Orange1 0]

Larry, we know from what you have posted before and the transcripts that Tina saw him with the "knapsack" around his waist looking like he was ready to jump - I presume it has been confirmed that he was still wearing his suit at that stage?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Nothing wrong with playing devil's advocate.

The things you mention are all discussed in the Real McCoy. The theory is that he lost the money and learned/improved the next time around.

I can give you a ton of reasons why it wasn't McCoy, including his whereabouts, age, MO, and (IMO the chief among the reasons) proof that he did not "lose" the money.

I know there are a handful of people here who still do not see "the proof" as actual proof... but I guess that it boils down to how much a person accepts the facts in the FBI file. I accept them. Others don't. It's not meant to bait a discussion, only that there are reasons for someone not to believe it was McCoy.

You're right, extreme nerves do horrible things to the digestive system. I can easily imagine Cooper being forced into the lavatory because his andrenaline short cut his body.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I don't think Cooper ever got a knapsack like he requested.

Yet another reason I do not believe Guru's hypothesis when he said the banker would get fired for giving Cooper a zipper-free bag with no water resistant treatment. If anything, they'd get fired for not giving Cooper the knapsack he requested.

I guess on some level, Cooper just had to go with it. Dummy harness, lousy money bag... oh well, I'd rather get going now than to make them get it right.

[Ckret 0]

The reason the cockpit crew refered to it as a knapsack is because he asked for the money to be in a knapsack. the crew up front never saw cooper or anything that was given to him, so the assumed it was a knapsack he tied around his waist, not the canvas bag he tied up with chute cord.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I know we can't talk about the recovered canopy just yet, but I can't shake the feeling that it would be so easy to go over there this weekend, ask the kids where it came from, and get the harness.

Does anyone know if a harness from back then would have the data card? Wouldn't it be fairly quick to take a glance at it and see if it said "Cossey" on it or not? But yet, it's better to wait 2-3 weeks to get a tentative match?

[grimmie 179]

Ckret, welcome back...

Was Cooper possibly a Canadian???

Did he bring his own gear on board unnoticed???

Was he putting on long undies in the Lavatory???

If it was Duane, wouldn't he have told the world it was him, so Jo could make some $$$'s after his death???

Did he really jump???

Ckret, with all of the new found interest in DB Cooper, have you decided to bring in the entire flight crew for interviews???

Are you willing to sit down with Jo to hear her out and view/hear the "evidence" she claims???

And when do we get the answers to the mysterious found parachute???

[Ckret 0]

Tina described the way he was dressed which the description from beginning to end never chaned. I believe if he had changed clothes she would have noted that. There is another item I have never posted or talked about much, thats Alice Hancock.

When I have a chance on monday I'll bring her into the picture more. The only thing she adds to the mix is something I have not been able confirm through any of Tina's statements.

Hancock got off in Seattle. As she was leaving she remembered she forgot her purse and went back to get it. It was near Cooper, she approached and asked his permission if she could retrive it. He said of course, I am not going to hurt you (I'll get her exact words in the morning).

She said when she was getting her purse she noticed Cooper was wearing or in the process of putting on one of the chutes. If we combine that with Mucklow stating to the crew when she entered the cockit a few minutes after takeoff, "I think he is getting ready to jump." It lends to my theory of why he wanted the stairs down at takeoff, which is, he fully intended to jump just after wheels up.

It makes me think Muckow must have, or the agent interviewing her glossed over the way Cooper was dressed as she last saw him. She stated he was securing the bag to his waist. Perhaps there was an assumption by both Tina and the agent that it was known Cooper had the chute on at this point and there was no need to document it, just the final securing of the money bag

It would make sense that Cooper had he chute on when he was securing the bag to himself. After all, if he did not have the chute on, what would he be securing the bag to?

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

It would make sense that Cooper had he chute on when he was securing the bag to himself. After all, if he did not have the chute on, what would he be securing the bag to?

Himself?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

The lavatory incident tells me one of two things to me. personally, when i jump if i gotta go i go when i hear first call for my load. sorta ritual.OR this guy was freaking out and just was either about to P!$$ his pants or he just left the in flight meal behind before the jump.

Or perhaps what was in the paper bag was his long johns? He was in the lavatory putting them on. He took so long there because...well...it's pretty cramped in there to take a suit off, put on long underwear, and then redress again.

I know, not fact, mearly conjecture (and yes, I'm bored here at home today. Clouds are up and DZ has shut down here).

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Ckret 0]

Cooper a Canadian? They are too nice, it could never be.

He could have not have brougt any gear on board. the plane was doing hops from accross the country, landing here and there, refueling and off again. Which means no confederate sneaking on and placing equipment.

I doubt he was doing changing in the bathroom, he did not bring any bags on that could have conceled clothing.

The only way to make the pressure bump is to jump off the airstairs. So yes, he jumped

I have made it a point not to bother anyone from the past unless they make it clear they want contact. I am not re-investigating the Cooper case, merely releasing the information. if something comes up that needs new investigative work i will do that.

i have talked to Jo at length several times, there appears to be no evidence, thats the problem.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

I know we can't talk about the recovered canopy just yet, but I can't shake the feeling that it would be so easy to go over there this weekend, ask the kids where it came from, and get the harness.

Can I come with you! :^)

Quote

Does anyone know if a harness from back then would have the data card? Wouldn't it be fairly quick to take a glance at it and see if it said "Cossey" on it or not?

Interesting idea! Hadn't thought of that. Any old time jumpers care to answer?

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Great story. I'm eager to read the details, thank you for posting.

It pretty much confirms what I already (was fairly)confident about; that Cooper was putting on the harness while the plane was still grounded and that he tied the money to himself afterwards.

ltdiver,
Nice thinking. I personally don't believe it happened that way because why wait to put on the Long Johns?? Would he really be that hot sitting there with them on? I'd say if he had special undergarments on, then he had them on when he boarded. But, pure conjecture of course.

The contents of the little paper sack... oh how it has baffled the best of us. I wonder if he would have left us a clue as to its contents?

[Ckret 0]

Couldn't have just tied the bag to himself, he used the two sections of cord he cut to wrap them around the bag and with what was left made a closed loop. My guess is when he put on the harness he put a strap throuh the loop and click it secured with the quick release. I guess if he was wearing a belt he could have put an end of the belt through the loop and re-fastened the belt around his waist.

[mark 107]

Quote

Does anyone know if a harness from back then would have the data card? Wouldn't it be fairly quick to take a glance at it and see if it said "Cossey" on it or not?

Interesting idea! Hadn't thought of that. Any old time jumpers can to answer?

[happythoughts 0]

Just as an observation, "grading a road" can have a few interpretations.

1. New road. Running equipment through a field or hillside and cutting down into a new area.
Something buried in a quick, shallow hole in a field is tilled up by the blade.

2. Old road. Running the blade across an existing road and unearthing something. The best place in the world to hide something is under a road or earthen dam. Those are designed to remain solid and undisturbed for many years. (The 3 civil rights workers at the bottom of a dam in Miss would never have been discovered without an informant.)

The type of work becomes important.