Static Line Student refuse to jump?

[Milo 0]

I'm curious.
What are the procedures for dealing with this?
My SL experience was from a C182, where the student hangs from the strut before letting go.
I can see the danger of helping or allowing the student to climb back into the aircraft, I can also see the danger of physically forcing a student to complete the jump when they are in an obviously confused mental state.
Is there a standard procedure for dealing with this?
milo

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

We had this at my DZ a few weeks ago - student got on the step and bottled. Instuctor got her to climb back in to the plane.
Danger could be my middle name. But it's Paul.

[skybytch 259]

Depends on where the student is at when they decide they don't wanna go.
I had one student refuse to go as she started climbing out. No problem, she wasn't out of the plane completely yet. She came back in, I shut the door, we did a go around and I talked to her. Second jump run she refused again. She was the last one on the load so we just landed the plane.
Had a couple refuse to let go once they were hanging. A good pilot can take care of that - we had good pilots Never had one change their mind once they were completely out on the step but not hanging yet; always managed to encourage the slow ones to finish the climb out and go. Had a couple not wanting to take their left foot off the step; I just reached my leg out and pushed their foot off if we got too long on the spot.
pull & flare,
lisa
[subliminal msg]My website Go Now[/subliminal msg]

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Do you mean actually hanging from the strut ? At our Dz, it's left foot on the step and right foot trailing, with both hands on the strut and hop sideways.
Danger could be my middle name. But it's Paul.

[indyz 1]

When I was on the rope (not long ago), we would hang for for the first two jumps, the practice ripcord pulls, and 5 and 10 second delays. Once we were on the 15 second delays we did poised exits (one foot on the step) for a few jumps, then went to diving. I've heard of other dropzones doing poised exits from jump one, though.
--
Brian

[GrumpySmurf 0]

I guess that's what they do - I've seen S/L's put out both Hanging (no feet on the step) and Poised (left foot on the step/wheel - right foot hanging in the breeze).

[Lindsey 0]

I did poised exits when I started, but the good thing about hanging from the strut is that you come off with good body position,.....you don't have an opportunity to push yourself off the step backwards and start all that funky flailing....I've seen folks more than a couple times flip backward through their risers and crazy stuff like that. That risk can be greatly diminished by just having them hang off the strut.
some days it's just not worth gnawing through the straps
http://home.earthlink.net/~linzwalley

[RichM 0]

Over here in UK, if they refuse twice they aren't allowed up again, as they pose a danger to themselves and everyone else in the event of an aircraft emergency when exit is an option. Not sure if this a UK rule, or just my DZ. Must go and read the Ops Manual again.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Same here I think. If they refuse once it goes in the log book
boobies - the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems

[diverdriver 5]

If the student is completely out the door and on the step they can not come back in. This is explained several times and with GREAT emphasis before they get in the plane to go. It is just too dangerous (potentially) to bring them back in after they have already gotten all the way out the door.
Which is also a reason (as a pilot) I like IAD. The JM goes out on the step with the student and is more directly in control of them. I only shook off one IAD student but I've shaken off many S/L students because they were hanging but wouldn't let go.
Chris Schindler
former IAD JM

[Hooknswoop 19]

"Is there a standard procedure for dealing with this?"
Close the door and wave at them, they'll leave. :-)
Hook

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Quote

Do you mean actually hanging from the strut ? At our Dz, it's left foot on the step and right foot trailing, with both hands on the strut and hop sideways.

That is "old school" and was how I learned. Now, the great majority of C-182 SL programs have the student hanging completely. We have experienced FAR fewer bad exits as a result and recommend it to everyone still doing it the other way.
The problem with the "left foot still on the step" method is that you have a lot of people jumping more up than out and hitting the wing, thus pointing them more straight forward (head into the relative wind). We had plenty flip forward and more roll sideways when we did it that way. I also had more people hitting the step on the way by.
We have them hang in a "big X" with knees nearly locked and toes pointed, arched purely from the pelvis. The positive legs get them in a better, less vertical body position and makes for less roll-over onto the back because they had their feet on their ass.
Having them hang makes it impossible to get back into the plane. We also put the odds more in our favor by streamlining the climbout/exit verbage:
-"sit in the door"
-"crawl all the way out and hang"
-"go!"
We used to have a "crawl out" command, right before "hang" where they would get out into the "left foot on step" position and then look back in at the JM. We had a fair shair balk once they got out there, not wanting to hang, so we just made it one movement all the way out and hardly ever have a refusal.
Bottom line with us is that if they balk before they hang and the spot gets long, then we will bring them in; if they are hanging, they are going...period.
Of note here is that I get well out of the plane with my left hand on the strut, left foot on the strut, and I control the SL with my right hand. If they do not get far enough out, not arching correctly, or don't have their legs out, then I talk them into the correct position. Also, if someone seems really sketchy on the ground, then I will never make them first out. If jumper number one does not go, then the plane is landing and you just wasted gas. I am pretty good at picking out the scared ones and set the exit order accordingly. Generally, after having them watch a couple of others exit, 99 percent of scaredy-cats will exit. You just have to put on a relaxed face and assure them it's going to be OK.
Chuck
My webpage HERE

[AggieDave 6]

I did S/L and hung off the strut, actually I almost fell off the strut because the video instruction showed a 100lbs wonder flapping in the breeze (not hanging straight down), and the pilot had cut real hard and seeing how I'm not even close to that size, I swung like a pendulum, almost falling off.
As for what I was taught, if a student was outside of the aircraft, they are leaving, no questions. With the static line and all, trying to climb back into the aircraft could be very dangerous.
A human cannonball, I rise above it all
Up higher then a trapeze, I can fly

[billvon 2,454]

>Is there a standard procedure for dealing with this?
My personal line was where the pack was. If the pack is still inside the plane, they can get back in. Once the pack is outside, they're going. The risk of snagging the static line/pins during the climb back in is too high.
-bill von

[Kris 0]

Quote

I did S/L and hung off the strut, actually I almost fell off the strut because the video instruction showed a 100lbs wonder flapping in the breeze (not hanging straight down), and the pilot had cut real hard and seeing how I'm not even close to that size, I swung like a pendulum, almost falling off.

Actually, the student and yourself probably hopped off of the step instead of gently stepping off. I have IAD'd several very small girls (a couple under 100 pounds) and have never had them "flap" if they gently stepped off. We give a cut but it isn't a great one and we keep power into the prop.
If a student hops off then their momentum will swing them around a bit before they settle. If it's bad enough and they haven't fallen off I will usually wait a second or two to make sure they have stopped swinging before I give the go command.
As for bringing a student back in the airplane, it doesn't happen once they have started climbout. Since their pilot chute is already extracted it is too dangerous to try to bring them back in. Luckily, since I am climbing out with them I can kind of herd them along the strut.
Kris