D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking

[skyjack71 0]

To ALL:

I did not know anything about Duane's past - The Horrible things you all are saying are nasty and rude. I have had two bad day and now I am crying so hard I cannot see the screen. I have not felt this kind of hurt in all of my life. This is the LAST thing I expected here.

Stratostar was the one offended by my mouse - but it seems that everyone thinks I am some kind of kook or crazy person. I am not - I know what I know. It seems that since the FBI is in the thread that is all you want - he still gets his information messed up and gives answers to satisfy you, but he doesn't answer the most important questions.

The chain of custody, the cigarette butts, O'hara, the hotel registration, the man who threatened me, the artist, the ex-wife, other people in Duane's life, his prison records, the fingerprints, Ross, and a huge list - fallure to investigate theses only leaves one to believe the FBI doesn't want to know or they already know --- so I guess the conspiracy really does exist.

The world today doesn't allow us to just go out there and accuse someone of being involved in a crime or coverup (hence the reason I try not to say certain things). Most just want the legend to live on because without the legend or mystery then you guys have nothing to hash over about how he did this or that.

I have had to stop a dozen times so far to gain my composure - but Carr, why haven't you shown the composites and the photos of Duane that match to the public. You keep showing that one old photo with his chin tucked in and the old Bing Crosby look-alike composite. You also keep telling the world that the DNA did not match without telling that the most conclusive evidence the Butts are lost. Why? Because to do so the FBI would have to admit that there was a possibility the evidence had been compromised and tampered with. This happened long before you got there, but it needs to be made public.

If Mouse upset anyone - I am not sorry.

Mouse headed for the hole. The growth made his
trip difficult - there was the stream and the hole was not far. Oh no, the hole was barren! Mouse was cold and hungry - What was he to do?

[Orange1 0]

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I guess the conspiracy really does exist?

Jo, read stratostar's post again. he is in his own way actually trying to help you.

and... calling conspiracy theory does you NO favors. conspiracy theories are often based on the premise that because you can't find the proof it is so well hidden.. when the more obvious explanation to most is that you can't find it because it isn't there in the first place. in other words, many people see them as the last refuge of someone who simply can't prove what they need to and are looking for an excuse for that.

the fact that the FBI has thrown this case open to the public again tells me that they (carr in particular) really are trying to find out what happened. yes they clearly made mistakes in the past, like with the cigarette butts - but jo honestly if the butts are found and don't match duane's DNA won't you then respond the same way you did with the tie? not going out of my way to defend the FBI but I think also important to remember that what we know now about tracing criminals was NOT the same as in 1971 and it's not always fair to judge them on that basis. Life is not even a CSI episode now and it certainly wwasn't back then. I watch Cold Case Files occasionally and it is really interesting how many old crimes are easily solved now simply because of DNA testing which they did not have then, and even with other handling etc on evidence they can prove what they need to. So my personal opinion is that even with the handling etc SOME of the DNA on that tie belongs to the real DB cooper. I'd love ckret to be able to do a DNA test on christiansen. And i'd love one day to see a Cold Case Files showing us how they finally resolved the DB Cooper case

and Jo.. sorry to harp on about this but as per your first post in this thread, you have still not put Duane anywhere near a parachute, and all the other "clues" etc that get thrown out don't change this.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Ckret 0]

To add to this there are 1057 sub files in the DB Cooper case, each representing a subject that has been investigated. To my knowledge, not one has been linked in any direct way to the hijacking. Meaning there is not one piece of verifiable information or evidence linking a subject to the case. The same can be said about the subjects mentioned and discussed in this thread. When you weigh through everything that has been discussed here, there is nothing (that can be independently verified) that links any of them to the case.

This is one of the reasons for going public, I need a new list and to date the emails and new leads are coming in at a rate that is going to take months to catch up on, so it's working, may not lead to anything, but we are trying. Nothing wrong with lively debate, I understand frustration but all should be respected.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I think everyone should know that during the past several years of investigating the ins and outs of the Cooper case, Skyjack71 has come across a handful of people who have given her cause to believe in a possible conspiracy or concerted effort to pull off this crime.

Like most of you, I'm not convinced in the conspiracy angle. However, from what she's said, Skyjack71 has been threatened a number of times. These people may have been projecting their own conspiracy angle onto her or they may have known what they were talking about. I don't know, you don't know, and even Skyjack71 doesn't know.

These threats made Skyjack71 paranoid. Therefore, some of those threats succeeded in their goal, to get her to keep hush on certain aspects of the case.

From what I know, her recent references to Cooper as Mouse do have a deliberate reason, cheif among them to "go back at them." In her own way, she's calling out those who previously threatened her.

Whether those people read this board or not is really immaterial to the rest of us, but to her it's a very big deal because of the threats.

If you were to imagine yourself in her shoes then her posts will make a little more sense. If your family member confessed the crime to you after he was told he had less days to live than he could count on one hand, then how would you react given that we discuss other suspects? You'd probably go crazy because all the idiots don't listen.

No one said you have to read her posts. Just skip them if you don't like them.

I've got a lot of catching up to do, on this board, in my work... but I will hopefully begin chipping away at the maps. I'm guessing I'll make my post in about 2 weeks.

In the meantime, I have a question for the DZ community... I have Earl Cossey on tape summarizing his opinion: Cooper's chute had one drawback-it was tough to find the rip cord, but if Cooper pulled the ripcord "he most certainly made it".
Opinions? Would you say Cossey's judgement was correct?

[mark 102]

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I have Earl Cossey on tape summarizing his opinion: Cooper's chute had one drawback-it was tough to find the rip cord, but if Cooper pulled the ripcord "he most certainly made it".
Opinions? Would you say Cossey's judgement was correct?

A pilot emergency rig with a tough-to-find ripcord? Not likely. Who would make such a thing?

Perhaps he said "tough to pull." That would be more likely -- I have a number of jumps on 4-pin pins-and-cones ripcords, and most of them were 2-handed pulls.

As to whether Cooper made it, I'm in the skeptics camp. If he was wearing loafers when he exited the airplane, he wasn't wearing them under canopy. So even if he pulled (pulled stable, pulled on time), the landing is problematic and the walk out is problematic. He could not have spotted an exit point accurately, and so could not have arranged for an accomplice either.

As to the absence of a body or parachute, that is not surprising to me. Every year there are canopies lost near major dropzones, never found in spite of knowing very closely where they might be, and in spite of very motivated individuals looking for a $1000 piece of equipment. Further, every year there are many searches for homicide victims, including some that are unsuccessful in spite of the number of volunteers and a pretty good guess as to location.

Mark

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Thanks!

It might be that he said tough to pull. Next time I listen, I will listen closely to see if he said hard to find or hard to pull.

Ckret, how certain are we that Cooper actually wore slip on "loafers"? I've been under the impression that this was at best, a guess. Is there a witness that flat out said "They were 100% loafers. I stared at them and I know it."??

He may have changed shoes before jumping. Remember he had a paper sack with him and the contents are unknown.

[Ckret 0]

Mucklow spent hours with him and described his shoes in detail (something a woman might notice) even down to the grain of the leather. She was certain to state they were slip on's. There is nothing in the investigation that points to Mucklow not being reliable in her statement so I give it weight. Of course that is different than actual fact but I do believe Cooper had slip ons.

The bag was not the size that he could have had a change of shoes in, nor a change of clothing. For that he would have had to have help from someone putting those items on the plane for him and there is nothing that points in that direction.

[low_pull1 2]

a tight pair of slip ons would stay on

[mark 102]

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a tight pair of slip ons would stay on

That's true, but not relevant. The description is of leather street shoes.

The common skydiving footgear of the time was boots. Combat boots, Frankenstein boots, RW Frankenstein boots. A few years later, Adidas came out with a couple models of skydiving boots, like high-topped athletic shoes. Still lace-ups, though.

So if our guy has some skydiving experience, he wants to wear boots. If he can't wear boots because they don't go with his business suit, he wears lace-up shoes, like oxfords or wingtips. If he's ex-military, he probably has some black lace-up dress shoes in the closet. He doesn't do slip-on leather street shoes because slip-on means means easy-on and easy-off -- that's the point of slip-ons, after all.

In all likelihood, Cooper arrived at the surface without shoes. Who among us would want to land a 26' Navy Conical without wearing shoes, even at our home dropzones, let alone off the dropzone and at night?

Mark

[BGill 0]

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a tight pair of slip ons would stay on

In all likelihood, Cooper arrived at the surface without shoes. Who among us would want to land a 26' Navy Conical without wearing shoes, even at our home dropzones, let alone off the dropzone and at night?

For $200k, I'm sure someone on here would give it a shot. Cooper was risking his life by hijacking a plane, so I'm sure he'd be willing to risk some other stuff. Also, who says that Cooper thought out every little detail, including what type of shoes he was going to wear? It's possible he overlooked some things in his planning (if there was much planning).

[skyjack71 0]

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In all likelihood, Cooper arrived at the surface without shoes. Who among us would want to land a 26' Navy Conical without wearing shoes, even at our home dropzones, let alone off the dropzone and at night?

Mark

I believe I told this before. Duane was never without - Black Rubbers that went over his shoes and snapped at the ankle. He kept a pair in the car (heavy rubber) and in the pocket of his raincoat (this pair was lighter in weight). Would this not have allowed the shoes stay on?

Also the Mitchel the boy sitting across from him - said there was something sticking out from under his pants - jumpsuit? Long underwear? Question?
In pictures I have seen - some of the jumpsuits have a strap going under the shoe - what is that for?

Mouse was stoned out of his head - he sat talking to the wallpaper - constantly taking his shoes off and on - and telling the animals on the wall how cold his feet were.

[happythoughts 0]

Attached is a really crappy screen capture from
an old jet jump. The camera was one of the first digital cameras and freaked-out at the speed of the pixel change rate.

Ten of us with left hand on a leg strap and right hand on a harness grip. Going down the ramp, the front guy would yell, "Tighten up (pulling in hard), two, one..."

As you can see from the pic, the exit blast threw us all over the place, even though it was 10 guys with tight grips.

A jet jump is not an Otter jump. Also, the non-skydiving attire and attached money bag would make exit unstable. It seems to me that it would be difficult to keep slip-on shoes attached.

That said, the shoes are a post-landing side issue. Required after a non-tree, non-lake landing.

[ryoder 1,393]

I think you forgot the attachment.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Guru312 0]

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...
Opinions?
...

Opinions?
I have a canvas bag full of them.

Opinion 1:
IF
the rip cord was hard to find
and he is wearing a second rig with a rip cord
and he has a canvas bag filled with money around his waist
and he has difficulty lowering the stairs
and he backs down the stairs
and he jumps off backward into the night
and the aircraft is cruising at greater than 150 mph
and he is wearing slip-on leather shoes
and he is anxious
THEN
The chances of him tumbling radically during exit and freefall is very high.
THEN
His confusion level will be high regarding finding the ripcord.
THEN
IF he found the ripcord
AND
IF he was able to pull it
THEN
Opening shock on his sleeve-less, conical, emergency canopy would be so great that the package would probably be ripped from his body.

Even with the heavy overcast and the rain he saw stars.

Opinion 2:
In the very unlikely event that the money found years ago was intentionally dropped by Cooper as a decoy action to throw off anyone chasing him or if in the very probabale event that he lost control of the money bag because of a significant opening shock as described above...a small portion of the money was found.

Following the stream/river on which the money was found upstream and branching into ever tributory along the river should yield all possibile points of origin of the money. If a radar track of the plane is available for that night a comparison of the track and river tributaries should narrow down the location significantly.

Once the area of probability is determined from the above, all towns or communities which fall within that area could be contacted through their TV or newspaper media.

Residents within the probability area could be asked if a scratched, bloody--and shoeless guy--knocked on their door for help around the time of the jump 36 years ago.

Opinion 3:
I think he lost the money because of opening shock.
If he was able to extricate himself from a tree landing I think he probably died from exposure without ever finding the money after he lost it.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[happythoughts 0]

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I think you forgot the attachment.

I blame technology. Stupid 'puter.

That exit just about kicked our butts.

23 sec time. One guy got low and it cost us 3 seconds, but it didn't make a difference. First place team was 17 seconds. Second place is just First Loser. No team jackets for us, but it was awesome fun.

I knew a lot of people who went to WFFC, just to compete in 10-way speed out of the jet.

[happythoughts 0]

None of the rest of the money was ever recovered.

I'll bet the locals treated the idea like a hunt for pirates treasure. They combed the area for years and looked at the ground.

Somewhere, there has been a guy hung up in a tree 60 ft off the ground for 36 years with a money bag strapped to him.

[ryoder 1,393]

Quote

That exit just about kicked our butts.

23 sec time. One guy got low and it cost us 3 seconds, but it didn't make a difference. First place team was 17 seconds. Second place is just First Loser. No team jackets for us, but it was awesome fun.

I knew a lot of people who went to WFFC, just to compete in 10-way speed out of the jet.

Two questions:
1. What was the airspeed on exit?
2. Did you hold on to the money and your loafers?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

That exit just about kicked our butts.

23 sec time. One guy got low and it cost us 3 seconds, but it didn't make a difference. First place team was 17 seconds. Second place is just First Loser. No team jackets for us, but it was awesome fun.

I knew a lot of people who went to WFFC, just to compete in 10-way speed out of the jet.

Two questions:
1. What was the airspeed on exit?
2. Did you hold on to the money and your loafers?

155 mph, I believe.

I was trying to hold onto the big loafer ahead of me.

None of us held on after exit. It was like holding onto something in a tornado. We got twisted and thrown around.

I was number 9. When the first two people were in the windstream, we were being pulled out. I think that my feet weren't touching the floor for the last 3-4 feet.

I did a few 10-way jumps over the years, but I also did a 2-way with a guy named Rob who was wearing an Elvis outfit. Big flappy white suit with rhinesones, black wig and belt.

His mom lived in Chicago and had never seen him land in his Elvis garb. She drove to Quincy.

I jumped out of a 727 jet with Elvis and then met his mom in the landing area in front of manifest. Not everyone believes me when I tell that story.

[skyjack71 0]

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he has a canvas bag filled with money around his waist

I know that Tina looked back and the way it is pictured in a drawing it seems impossible and I would think so also..but, if he wasn't tell the biggest whopper on earth when he was dying - he got out with about 27K.

Remember not one person knows what was under that jacket and the FBI never mentions the raincoat.

If a man wore a TOOL BELT around his waist - how would that hinder someone wearing a parachute and would it have made it possible for him to tie a smaller package like the dummy filled with part of the money closer to him with out getting in the way of the chute. Or for that matter would a small brief case of the the 70;s fit inside of the dummy?

If Duane wasn't tell the biggest whopper anyone ever told a wife on his deathbed - then he did not get out with all of the money - only about 27K. Would 27K in twenties fit into the dummy or the briefcase and could it have been secured to his midsection without hindering the chute???

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[dbcoopercatcher 0]

First, let me say that this thread has some real quality that would have been very helpful had Al Gore invented the internet before this heist. All of these great ideas bouncing around are fantastic.
Next, as my tag indicates (for those who know the claims associated with it) I am biased and in the 'Mayfield is the best suspect' camp. I know the tag is uber-arrogant but I have had it a while and will keep it - apologies.
I am Matt Myers and, although I would not go so far as to say we have solved the case, (100% certainty or very near is not possible for someone who was not on the plane - either for or against a suspect) I do beleive that with the knowledge we have available, Mayfield is by far the best suspect so far and should have been / still should be investigated.
In a lunch interview we had with former agent Himmelsbach in 2001, he said Ted would have been a great suspect had he not called in. We asked him if there was no possible way Ted could have gotten to a phone in an hour and three quarters and called in. He replied, "but the man was wearing loafers."
He further said ,"I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Ted planned it or was in on it in some way."
Couple this with Himmelsbach not knowing where Ted lived at the time, or from where the call originated and Ted lying about his alibi to us, Koin and Inside Edition, and motive, experience, need, unexplained gain after, etc. etc. etc.
I'd just like to see him compeled for his DNA, him cleared or convicted, and I can get onto another goose chase.
A final note that is not unrelated, it is my sad duty to inform you that Jack Wilson who posted here on this case lost a long struggle with a debilitating and painful form of Muscular Dystrophy. He was my partner in investigating this for the past 8 years (more accurately, I was his.) His name was Dan Dvorak. He used a fictitious name to avoid specific arguments from people he had previously argued with and to help thwart his being found by those he did not wish to be found by. He was a good man with a passion for justice. He and I repeatedly put ourselves in a position where our case could be desroyed come what may. An example of this is asking Himmelsbach if he called prior to 8:13 PM. We were willing to be shut down right then and there. Dan was certainly about due dilligence in an investigation whatever the result. Skills probably honed while working as a financial statements analyst for Delloitte and Touche before he became disabled.
Oh, and he can be placed in a parachute a few times in the late 80's.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

dbcoopercatcher, welcome to the board. I remember you from a different forum. I personally don't know much about the Mayfield theory other than, 1. he was a skydiving instructor 2. he had a criminal record, including a bank robbery (that happened after the Cooper heist?) 3. Him and a handful of partners purchased sizable property (to run his business out of of?) 4. He was one of the people consulted regarding the Cooper case, and 6. He personally believes Cooper would have easily pulled this off successfully. He's been briefly mentioned on this board a couple of times, but with no substance. One poster told Ckret the best suspect wasn't investigated and then left it at that.

We now know the paper sack was too small to hold an alternate pair of shoes. The question remains, what was in that sack?

Unless Cooper had some type of attachment like Skyjack71 suggested (rubbers), then the loafers would certainly point the finger to a jumper who was relatively inexperienced. Cooper not specifying what type of chute(s) also points in this direction. Many of the people in the DZ community have expressed the time of year and time of day as being inconsistent with an experienced jumper... though I would have to disagree here since these were primary reasons why he wasn't apprehended.

Would tight loafers stay on? More importantly, would Cooper think that tight loafers would stay on?

[AirWhore 0]

OK coopercatcher i hate to bust your bubble here but the odds of mayfield being able to get to a phone that quick are truly astronomical. Let me explain, my last out landing ( that's when a skydiver can't make it back to the main landing area and has to chose an alternate landing area) it was during the day, i knew where i was, there were people coming to get me in a truck, and i knew where i was going, and it still took me 30-45 min to get back over to the DZ and get my gear off. For mayfield to have made that phone call he would have to practically land next to the phone. Even then he still has to get his wits together (landing in an unknown place tends to get the heart beating a little bit) take his gear off, hide it, burry it , whatever he did with it. Alll of that is going to take you at least 20-30 min. So now you are in the woods it's dark, raining, and you have no clue as to where you are???? I'm not saying it was impossible for Mayfield to get to a phone in that time frame, I'm just saying it is improbable. Also I don't think Mayfield would have worn loafers,because he was an experienced jumper. The only benefit he would have had by wearing loafers is that it would have thrown off the cops as to whether or not he had any experience jumping, tennis shoes would have served the same purpose and they would have a much better chance of staying on. I think the fact that DB wore loafers is a crucial clue as to who DB was. anybody with any experience at all would have known that those shoes would not have lasted 2 seconds after exit. If any other jumper wants to elaborate on how long it takes to get back to a known place after landing out feel free....
P.S. this thread rocks

[SkydiveJack 1]

Another thing to consider about Mayfield calling in to the FBI. How was he sure that the news about the hijacking had already become public? What if the authorities had kept it under wraps initially? I know the chances of the authorities keeping it quiet in the beginning are small, but what if?

If he was out in the boonies and just got to a phone he was really rolling the dice. If the news wasn't public then the call would have implicated him. However if he was home or in a car with a radio he would know about the reports and decided to establish a real alibi before the FBI came knocking on his door.

I'm not trying to say he's not Cooper. This is just food for thought.

[Orange1 0]

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I think everyone should know that during the past several years of investigating the ins and outs of the Cooper case, Skyjack71 has come across a handful of people who have given her cause to believe in a possible conspiracy or concerted effort to pull off this crime.

Like most of you, I'm not convinced in the conspiracy angle. However, from what she's said, Skyjack71 has been threatened a number of times. These people may have been projecting their own conspiracy angle onto her or they may have known what they were talking about. I don't know, you don't know, and even Skyjack71 doesn't know.

These threats made Skyjack71 paranoid. Therefore, some of those threats succeeded in their goal, to get her to keep hush on certain aspects of the case.

From what I know, her recent references to Cooper as Mouse do have a deliberate reason, cheif among them to "go back at them." In her own way, she's calling out those who previously threatened her.

Whether those people read this board or not is really immaterial to the rest of us, but to her it's a very big deal because of the threats.

If you were to imagine yourself in her shoes then her posts will make a little more sense. If your family member confessed the crime to you after he was told he had less days to live than he could count on one hand, then how would you react given that we discuss other suspects? You'd probably go crazy because all the idiots don't listen.

You seem to know an awful lot about what Jo thinks, knows, doesn't know, feels, is motivated by, and so on.

btw if she was threatened, wouldn't the normal thing to do be to go to the cops? or get a protection order from the courts? or something?

p.s. just because "a handful of people" believe in a conspiracy theory doesn't make it true. the internet and bookshops are full of conspiracy theories that many people believe yet whose "logic" and "arguments" don't stand up to rational examination.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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We now know the paper sack was too small to hold an alternate pair of shoes. The question remains, what was in that sack?

Hmm, let's see, if i was crazy enough to try this i might like to have in my paper sack ... goggles... alti... a small flashlight..? (did they have glow-in-the-dark altis in those days? what else would you have used for a night jump back then?)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.