Rags vs cheap-o's

[mjosparky 3]

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This guy just blew up his ragged out 28 ft. canopy

You really had to work to blow up a C-9. Those things are build tough. I worked on a program where the C-9 was modified to go into the F-18A and B head box. Attached is a picture of one I packed leaving an F-4 at 600 KEAS at 500 feet over China Lake. (4,000 MSL) The other picture is the canopy about to land with a 6' 6", 376 pound test dummy including all of its equipment.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[kkeenan 13]

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I don't remember a single experienced jumper with a T10, but I do remember a few with cheapos.

Back in the '70s, I had the ultimate in cheap cheapos - a 28' C-9 with the lines stripped from the radial seams and a 4-line release. This was my low-volume hot RW canopy. Of course, tying the lines back on for each pack job was a pain, and every time I landed, everyone thought it was a reserve ride. But the price was right, since the canopy was from a dumpster at the USAF Survival School. ( "I swear, I just found it".)

Kevin

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[wmw999 2,123]

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a 28' C-9 with the lines stripped from the radial seams and a 4-line release

There was a woman who showed up in Massachusetts with one of those, except that she'd pulled down the apex. I don't remember if it was modded or 4-lined; I just remember the jellyfish-like consistency of the canopy with no lines in the channels.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

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But the price was right, since the canopy was from a dumpster at the USAF Survival School. ( "I swear, I just found it".)

Hell they used to send us all of the C-9's that had outlived their 7 year shelf life. Every student there got to cut them up into shelter material( the A Frame shelter the most common) and for fire circle canopies.. and for some groups tee pee's. Usually the harnesses were cut up to make pack straps... belts... knife scabbards.. and other pieces of improvised equipment for the field training phase.

Most of them were the 4 color brown green white and orange while i was there but once in a while a solid white or alternating gore white orange pattern would show up out of some life support shop that had stashed an unopened box in the wrong place. Those were great for trading material with other groups on base

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Amazon,

Re: 'alternating gore white orange pattern'

That is known as a candy stripe.

Just for you trivia buffs,

Jerry

[Guru312 0]

In PA, NJ and MD we called these rigs cheapos. The 'rag' word meant any rig marginally jumpable or airworthy...or just as a mild put-down of another jumper's rig.

When I went through jump school at Bragg in March of 1960, the Army team was jumping 7-TU rigs. My first sport jump in June was on a 5-LL because "...7-TU rigs are too hot for students to jump."

This thread got me thinking: Do any of you know of a site with word definitions and descriptions of parachuting/skydiving terms in general? I'd find it interesting browsing through such a list.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[steve1 5]

As usual I'm getting way off subject here, but will ramble on anyway.

I remember double L modifications, and 7 TU's. I also remember someone talking about a 9 TU on a T-10. (Anyone else remember this or maybe this is a fig newton of my imagination.)

In about 1970 we jumped a T-10 in the army, that had a round hole in the back. You'd pull a couple of safety forks out of your risers right above your capewells and then the risers would actually slide through the upper part of your capewell when you made a turn. I think this gear was quickly scrapped as a poor idea. Anyone ever heard of this set up?

I don't know what year the military went to anti-inversion netting. I saw a picture of it a few years back and asked on here, "What's that?" At any rate it was probably a good idea. I remember a lot of May West (line over malfunctions). Anti-inversion netting was NOT used in the 70's. Some jumpers ended up riding a May West into the ground. There often wasn't time to pull you yourserve, then throw it out in the direction of spin before you smucked in. Most static line jumps were from 1200 feet for training purposes in the military.

On some night jumps it might have been so dark you had a hard time seeing your hand in front of your face let alone checking out your canopy for distortions. And on top of that you had to worry about dropping your equipment on a lowering line before landing. All from 1200 feet.

During those days someone came up with the bright idea of tying a string around your leg and rucksack( which hung below your belly reserve). Supposedly this would keep it from flying up on exit. Mine was usually too heavy to fly up. But anyhow there you were with a million other canopys floating down in the black of night, and you were fiddling with some damn string on your leg. You had to check for malfunction, untie this damn string, before you could even think about dropping your ruck (at tree top level), and who knows where tree top level was, because again you often couldn't see your hand in front of your face.

Combat jumps were from 500 ft. I never did one, but have heard some jumpers didn't even use a reserve. There wasn't time to do much with it from that altitude.....Steve1

[ripcord4 0]

At the Quantico SPC in the early '60's, there was a definite gear progression in place: blank gore, double blank gore, double L, double T. You had to make 3 jumps each mod before progressing to the next, as I recall. You needed a "B" license to jump a T-U.

[wartload 0]

When I saw that, I wondered just how badly that canopy could have actually been ripped. They were indeed tough, and the pics don't make that one look too dogged out.

And how many of you would have cut away a cheap-o just because of one blown panel, especially if it was low on the canopy?

I think that I saw a total of two former-military canopies blow panels. Both were very tired T-10s that pretty heavy guys were using for cheap freefall mains.

[wartload 0]

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Re: 'alternating gore white orange pattern' That is known as a candy stripe.

Jerry - I remember jumping a student rig (because it was packed, I'd just jumped my rig, and a load was about to leave) that had an orange & white striped main in it. My recollection was that it was an FS-F1 (or some such) and had been designed for Forestry Dept. smoke jumpers. It was slow, docile, and landed mighty soft.

Does that sound familiar to you?

[steve1 5]

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When I saw that, I wondered just how badly that canopy could have actually been ripped. .

That was so many years ago that I'm having trouble recalling all the details. I do remember a very long tear near the apex. There was no way to ride it in without serious injury.

The old 28 ft. rounds may have indeed been tough. I recall some that had a lot of burn holes in them, yet people were still jumping them. As, I mentioned earlier, I have a friend (Hod Sanders) who made over a 1,000 jumps on an old rag. He bought it from a guy in the Green Beret Parachute Club.

He said he didn't trust the new canopies such as para-commanders. He ended up on a World Championship team with B.J. Worth, Jerry Bird, and others. And he was still jumping this old canopy with duck tape all over it.

After a jump most of the team could land in the landing area, but Hod was often blown way over into the South forty. It was holding their group up to wait for him. Finally B.J. gave Hod an ultimatum. "You either get another canopy, or quit the team." So, he traded in his old rag for another canopy.....Steve1

[mjosparky 3]

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remember double L modifications, and 7 TU's. I also remember someone talking about a 9 TU on a T-10. (Anyone else remember this or maybe this is a fig newton of my imagination.)

I remember seeing a couple of 9TU's in the mid to late 70's. And as you say they were both on T-10's. A few years ago I piggy backed some 5TU and 7TU drops on a test program I was working. It was just for my own curiosity, not all that scientific.
I came to the conclusion that cutting a 5TU in a C-9 was right at the edge of diminishing returns. By going to a 9TU you did not gain any increase in forward speed or turn time but you sure increased descent rate. I can’t remember the figures but it was dramatic.

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I don't know what year the military went to anti-inversion netting. I saw a picture of it a few years back and asked on here, "What's that?" At any rate it was probably a good idea.

Bill Booth wrote a little article on safety and mentioned that when the Army went to anti-inversion netting their malfunction rate went from 1 in 250 jumps to 1 in 250,000 jumps. But sport jumps would not buy a reserve with the netting on because in packed 10% bigger.

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My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[airtwardo 6]

But sport jumps would not buy a reserve with the netting on because in packed 10% bigger.


***

And now...they wear LEAD!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi wartload,

Just to clarify; a candy stripe was an alternating orange/white gore canopy.

Later there were some canopies (lots I think) that were orange, white sand (?), brown (?) quartered around the canopy. These did not exist during my 1.1 cheapo days (early '64).

HTH,

Jerry

[wartload 0]

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Hi wartload,

Just to clarify; a candy stripe was an alternating orange/white gore canopy.

Later there were some canopies (lots I think) that were orange, white sand (?), brown (?) quartered around the canopy. These did not exist during my 1.1 cheapo days (early '64).

Yep. That's precisely what I was talking about--alternating colors on the gores.

[jaymundo 0]

Man...I was stylin with a orange and white TT that had been dyed yellow,therefore making the lines and all the white...yellow,with the orange still orange!I was light so I could flare it(risers) and stand it up most of the time.

[Spiker 1]

I had a 7TU that we dyed with forest green. The orange turned out copper, the white gore turning forest green with green risers. We used 20 packs of RIT dye and a pound of salt in a commercial laundry mat on base at Ft. Hood. Then ran like hell before someone saw us or tried to use that machine - haha.

The only thing I miss about jumping rounds is getting driven into the ground like a stake.

POP'S 9817 SOS 1172

[1888 0]

I recall using the rit dye, although I can't remember the quantity. What was the salt for?

[ripcord4 0]

I dyed an all-white canopy (7 TU) Navy Blue. This was in 1963 at Camp Sukiran, Okinawa. I filled a G.I. can with warm water in the shower room and dumped in a bunch of RIT dye packets and let the canopy soak for about 1/2 hour, then wrung it out and took it outside to air dry. It took 4 of us, one on each riser to hold that thing in the wind while it dried. Didn't take long, though - it was quite breezy. I have a photo of this somewhere and I'll post it if I can find it. Took longer to clean the shower room than it did to dry the canopy as I recall.

[Spiker 1]

We found that using salt set the dye much better.

The only thing I miss about jumping rounds is getting driven into the ground like a stake.

POP'S 9817 SOS 1172

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Jay,

I remember a lot of guys dieing 1.1's; lot's of different color combos. Most looked very bad but every now & then someone would hit it just right on a color that would work with the orange gores.

The good old days,

Jerry

[bob.dino 0]

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And now...they wear LEAD!

We don't all have your natural fall rate .

[mjosparky 3]

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And now...they wear LEAD!

We don't all have your natural fall rate .

Its not natural, he took years to develop that blazing speed.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[airtwardo 6]

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And now...they wear LEAD!

We don't all have your natural fall rate .

Its not natural, he took years to develop that blazing speed.

***

YEAH!

It takes years of 'solid' commitment to achieve our blazing speed!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[steve1 5]

reply]
It takes years of 'solid' commitment to achieve our blazing speed!