cypres

[Ron 7]

use it...have fun.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[amir1967 0]

You right about that .
but if we take it a step further , what you say is if someone screw up he or she should take a good look and think about stop jumping at the rate of low turn hook turn those who swoop and screw up would stop jumping we will have no one to jump with very soon , I don´t know how is it in the U.S.A but I was very supprised when I´v learn how many screw up still walking around us (broken legs hands back neck and so on) should they stop jumping to .you will soon jump alone .
I guess I mean that I´m very happy that the cypres can save some people not matter what the reason is
and I will use my knowing it adv, and dis-adv.

AM67

[Ron 7]

Well the major differance is that with hook turns you can screw up and not DIE...yes you can die, but I ahve hooked it in (Didn't brake, but damn that hurt).

But if you are saved by a CYPRES you should be dead.

This sport is not for everyone...If you get saved by the cool box...It may not be for you.

Just think about it....And yes, I know people that rethink hook turns after smacking in.

But the basic theme of skydiving is to not hit the ground without a canopy open. If you can't do this....Well Im done here.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I like to think of my Cypres as an insurance policy to save my ass when it needs saving. But like any insurance policy, if you keep making claims on it, then you have to start asking yourself what's the root cause of the problem. I hope my cypres never fires (knock on wood I haven't used it yet) and if all of a sudden I'm using it because I'm not altitude aware, then it's time to question myself as to whether or not I really should be doing this sport. But as I said, no Cypres fires to date.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[pop 0]

Quote

(which includes putting myself into a situation where I COULD be knocked out)....

sometimes those cannot be avoided

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[nicknitro71 0]

You guys are funny
This post reminds me of the begining of Magnolia...

Indeed shit happens

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Albatross 0]

I agree with Ron at least in spirit. An AAD is like an airbag in your car. It is the back up for when a) you screw up b) you screw up c) shit happens.
It is not a device to rely on. I saw one guy ride his cypress. He cut away a mal and waited until the cypress fired. I had 20 jumps and it scared the SH&* out of me.
If you cypress fires and you haven't pulled the reserve, something hasn't broken, and you are conherent, you need t sit down and concider if this is the right sport for you or if you need more training.
All that said this is the type of F-up that a cypress is perfect for. This guy should have changed one deployment factor at a time adn gradually gotten used to the new system. He made some bad decisions and some physical mistakes that the cypress saved him from. I don't depend on mine but it is nice to know that it is there in case I screw up big time.

Chris

[blueshrew 0]

Sure shit happens, but I for myself take every precaution I can to make that not happen. That includes pulling at 1500m/4500ft on a new rig and going for all the handles a couple of times during freefall.
If you look at the saves, a lot of them (most?) are students that had a malfunction cut away and waited ala "I didn't want to do anything wrong so I waited for the Cypres", or just plain didn't do anything. I'd say that has more to do with their training than anything. And I wouldn't call that a fuck-up on their side, it's just plain stupidity or bad training.
Now I hope I will still be that precautious as my jump numbers grow (they say the people most at risk are those that are just over 200 and just over 1000 jumps). I jump as if I didn't have a Cypres, and then there is no room for fucking up. Sure that could happen, but I's say it is less likely to happen if my mind set is "ah, you know, I will fuck up eventually, so that's why I have a cypres". I have one in case I cannot for whatever reason save myself.
BTW, not finding your handles, VERY lame excuse for a Cypres fire, and very embarassing, whatever happened to following the shoulder strap down?

[Ron 7]

Quote

"I didn't want to do anything wrong so I waited for the Cypres", or
just plain didn't do anything. I'd say that has more to do with their training than
anything. And I wouldn't call that a fuck-up on their side

There is no bigger fuck up than to stop trying to live, and start trusting a neat $1,000.00 gizmo.

If you can't realise that simple fact....You might want to stop and think about it.

There is ONE thing to do skydiving...that is to live....This requires that when someone throws a large planet at you, you respond by throwing a pilot chute.

All the other things in skydiving are a FAR second to surviving.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[nicknitro71 0]

Quote

When someone throws a large planet at you, you respond by throwing a pilot chute

Can I steel it from ya?

I would love a shirt with that phrase!

Good job

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Ron 7]

Wow thats two cool sayings from this thread....

Damn thats neat.

But use away......

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[nicknitro71 0]

It's now integrated in my web site skydiving page.

Thanks!

Memento Audere Semper

903

[blueshrew 0]

Quote

Quote

"I didn't want to do anything wrong so I waited for the Cypres", or
just plain didn't do anything. I'd say that has more to do with their training than
anything. And I wouldn't call that a fuck-up on their side

There is no bigger fuck up than to stop trying to live, and start trusting a neat $1,000.00 gizmo.

and thank YOU for cutting out the relevant end of that sentence

[Ron 7]

And what "Relevant" thing did I leave out??????

Training is training.....Skydiving is not a complicated sport to grasp....

Jump, Pull, don't kill yourself on landing.

If you miss one of these 3 simple things, well you have a larger problem.

I know EVERY student has been told to STOP THE SKYDIVE!

But some people don't execute that plan....And some people should not be skydiving.

A CYPRES fire is a very public way of displaying your lack of understanding of the basic skydiving skills.

How is this hard to grasp?

And the point is that "knocked out" skydivers happen very little as compared to the other things that cause a CYPRES fire. And that almost ALL fatalities, CYPRES fires, Accidents ect are all nothing more than SOMEONE screwing up.

If you want a cool toy that in the case of you doing something stupid, will keep you from dying....Great! I don't like divits on my DZ. I have a CYPRES, and have seen many divits....

But I don't lie and say I have it incase I am knocked out...

I have it incase I do something stupid that should have killed me.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[listo 0]

Quote

There is ONE thing to do skydiving...that is to live....This requires that when someone throws a large planet at you, you respond by throwing a pilot chute.

I agree....but who in the hell is strong enough to throw a planet at me? I throw myself at a planet and at some point chicken out and throw a pilot chute, but if some dude is big enough to throw a planet at me, I am just going to shoot him and run like hell.

Live today as tomorrow may not come

[listo 0]

I had a cypres fire once. I was under a good canopy and F#*&@$ up by spiralling too low with a student cypres. I fired it and ended up with an instant downplane. Moral of the story......I F'd up!

One vote for ------------->stupidity.

I admit it. Will I ever do it again..........nope! Do I still jump with a cypres.......you betcha! If I can be stupid once, I might do it again. Thank God for a cypres......they save idiots like me.


Listo

[amir1967 0]

Hi Ron
you have opinion and it is fine
I just don´t really get why you keep saying student screw up ,I have read at least one jump master in the state last year that went after his student and forgot to pull on time the student cypres fire and is maybe stupid but alive, the jm didn´t have one (don´t know the reason) and is not with us .
I know that I´m not perfect But on every jump I do my best to be safe for my self and other in the Air

AM67

[Ron 7]

Quote

I just don´t really get why you keep saying student screw up ,I have read at least one
jump master in the state last year that went after his student and forgot to pull on
time the student cypres fire and is maybe stupid but alive, the jm didn´t have one
(don´t know the reason) and is not with us .

What part of this do you not understand as stupid?
The student did a stupid thing....Students do that sometimes. But still the one thing you learn at a FJC is to PULL open a parachute. What is so hard about that? Am I glad that a CYPRES saved his ass? Yep, sure am. But he still did something stupid....Do you not agree he was stupid? He screwed up...Don't you agree he screwed up?
He is only alive thanks to a cool black box.

The instructor....Well he screwed up. Don't you see that?
He made a stupid mistake trying to be a hero.

Why didn't he have a CYPRES?

Well the sport has been around long before this cool black box...and it will be around long after its gone, or become a doorstop.

Not everyone can afford them.

Not everyone LIKES them.

I can't blame him for not having a CYPRES....I can fault him for doing a stupid thing by following a student below the hard deck.

Skydiving was around a long time before CYPRES was invented....And I will jump with or without one.

If you feel you need one, maybe you should spend more time thinking about what you are doing.

I HATE when people say things like "I will not jump without a CYPRES...and you are stupid for doing it".

Well, If you don't trust yourself fine...But to call me stupid? I am a safe skydiver...ask anyone that knows me.

I don't think a CYPRES is needed for me to be safe, and I feel safe without one.

Stupid things lead to fatalities....A CYPRES can save you if you are stupid....But the #1 thing is to NOT BE STUPID.

What is so hard about that?

What don't you understand?

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[eddytheeagle 0]

I've been following this thread, and I want to throw
my 2 pennies in. I completely agree with the statements that the cypres is a great device, and that most cypres fires are caused by stupid mistakes/people screwing up in a serious manner.

Nowadays, there's a lot of people around in skydiving who never jumped without a cypres (at some DZs in Europe having an AAD is compulsory for everybody), and they might feel more comfortable having one in their rig. So I do understand if people say they don't want to jump without one. It doesn't imply that they think they won't be able to cope with the problems they could have during a jump. If they would feel that way, they definately shouldn't jump.

But, as said before, people do screw up. EVERYBODY
can screw up. Having a cypres for that reason makes sense. So, Ron, if you screw up (which I hope you'll never do) and your cypres saves your ass, do you quit jumping? I would.

Don't underestimate your ability to screw up!

[amir1967 0]

Hi Ron
I respect your opinion and never called you stupid
I respect what you do and belive of what you say is true (at least for you ), saying that I still like to see people using cypres in case they doing somthing very stupid. that might give them second chance to think about what happen and is that the sport that they should practicing
Amir

AM67

[mikeat10500 9]

I just like to say...I like they way Ron thinks!

I wear one beacause shit happens....I don't preach the people getting knocked out story.
I don't wear one cause of the cost.
I got a protech hard hat to help avoid getting knocked
out...looks stupid though!

I think they are great things....
Me too...if I jump someone's rig that's equipted
w/aad when they ask if its ok to turn it on, I say
sure...don't plan on being in free fall at 750'.
But I can't justify the expence for my own rig.
I got the protech for free and it never req batteries.

But most "saves" are from negligence, not being unconsious.
I hope so...I've been betting my life on it.
I just wish people would be truthful...

Not gonna happen'.

A better statment would be "I have an AAD because shit happens, and I would rather not die even if I fuck up."
I'd sign up for that...but AAD's can't always save
ya, they can't prevent main/reserve entanglements,
they can't stop ya from steering a good canopy into
solid opjects."Mabey some day airbags will deploy
if ya screw up a high speed landing."

....Just don't rely on the damn thing.

That is how they trained me...good thing eh!

Ron

[Ron 7]

Well I never said YOU said people who jump without a CYPRES are stupid....Sorry if you took it that way.

But there are people who DO say things like that.

I agree, if you can afford one I think you should get one.

But I don't tell people to get one, and if someone does not have one, I don't tell them they should get one.

Some people don't trust them, others just don't like them.

I like them, I have one rig with one and one without.

But if a person chooses not to have one it is that persons right. I will not force it on them.

And this is off topic a little...But as for a DZO that requires them...I think it is perfectly fine for them to do that. You have the choice not to jump there. Just like if you don't like Coke, they make Pepsi. I don't think that the USPA should ever say squat about jumpers having an AAD once they have a license.

Well I'm done...eveyone have a good time.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mikeat10500 9]

Ron
no i did not take you the wrong way. i meant what i
said " i like the way you think".
I know i look stupid w/protech...i saw the pictures

p.s.
and now you can see the pictures too!
at

http://www.geocities.com/mikeat10500/index.html

later mike.

[

Quote

Well I never said YOU said people who jump without a CYPRES are stupid....Sorry if you took it that way.

-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.

[GroundRush1 0]

I have to get in on this. I havent been in skydiving very long, but it seems to me an AAD is really more of an insurance policy, you know, peace of mind? To me, this early in the game, thats what it is. So I would not rely on insurance in a bad situation, but it never hurts to stack up safety devices to minimize the odds.
Now maybe some of you can clue me in, isnt is possible that, after doing a cutaway, the reserve handle can move from its former position? This is the thing Id be concerned with, if that was the reason why he couldnt find the handle. That combined with the state of panic he might have been in.
Also, what about the possibility of a main malfunction causing a hard spin? I guess the best thing to do would be to just immediately cutaway, if you can find the cutaway while youre spinning. So on this note, is there a better way to immediately deal with a spin, like pulling down on the opposite back riser until you gain a little more control? Dont know myself if that would work or not.

[Tonto 1]

Ron and Listo. Not packing correctly and being unable to locate a reserve handle are big errors, but not worth dying for. This dude did 1 thing right, and put a cypress in his rig, and is alive as a result of it.

We all make mistakes. ALL OF US. Ask Tommy Piras, Rob Harris, Patrick De Gayardon. Think you're better than they were? Big ego if you do. If you have the skin, buy one, and turn it on. I also have one, for that day I'm dumb and am too fixcated on getting my AFF student to pull. Hasn't happened in the last 3800 dives, but I still turn it on.

t

It's the year of the Pig.