Canopy Transfer

[riddler 0]

OK, wow, I saw this in the incidents forum, and I wanted to clarify because I've never heard of it. I've only been in the sport about a year and half now.

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pop that reserve and then dump the main.

Wait - this goes against a lot of the training I've had. I've heard that if you are very low and have a malfunctioning mail that is not slowing you down much, get "more fabric" over your head by popping the reserve.

I've never heard reserve first, then release main. It looks like for a very special set of circumstances. Was this something that was taught in the past but not taught today? Can anyone elaborate on the specific circumstances you would do this?

Also, is this CReW technique (I've never done CReW)?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Oh man, a ton of people used to do canopy transfers back in the day, as it became time to repack their reserve. It was more common with round reserves (at least where I was jumping), but I have seen it done plenty of times with squares. Basically, you would be flying along, into the wind, and fire your reserve. As it fully inflated and started flying up behind you, you would chop the main and swing under the reserve. Hey, it was a different time. People jumped MUCH bigger canopies then and it wasn't that big a deal. Today you would probably get run off most dropzones.

Chuck

[billvon 2,463]

>It looks like for a very special set of circumstances. Was this
> something that was taught in the past but not taught today? Can
> anyone elaborate on the specific circumstances you would do this?

Basically if you're low, under an unlandable main, but you can get the thing to go straight, you can do a canopy transfer to reduce deployment time. Not all that useful usually - malfunctions usually show up right at opening, and modern canopies don't often mal but continue going straight.

Or you could do it for fun, but that's generally frowned upon.

> I've heard that if you are very low and have a malfunctioning mail
> that is not slowing you down much, get "more fabric" over your head
> by popping the reserve.

Same thing basically. And if the reserve inflates and the main just trails off to one side, clear of the reserve, you can cut the main away at that point. If you do that you've just done a canopy transfer.

[oldnewbie 0]

Hiya skymonkeyone

Are you serious about this, or were you just joking around???*shaking my head* How dangerous was this, Assuming youare serious?? *still shaking his head* I'm kinda new to skydiving so I've never heard of this. Thank

[John4455 0]

Before you would cut away your main from a two canopies out, you should disconnect the RSL if you had one.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[riddler 0]

Risk of entanglement?

Let's say you're not flying a hotrod (else, the thing wouldn't fly straight anyway, right ), square or marginally elliptical. My older rig might be a good example. Triathalon 190 - nice docile 7-cell. Reserve is Raven-2 210.

The tri is flying straight, but I can't turn or flare. I then pull the reserve, wait for it to inflate and *almost* get above my head (not quite let the canopies touch). Let's assume it was headed for a biplane, and not side-by-side or downplane, since biplane is the most likely. Just about when it's over my head, I chop the main. Seems like the risk of entanglement is there, but somewhat low.

I assume the risk of entanglement is why this is frowned upon at DZs today?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[payback462 0]

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Before you would cut away your main from a two canopies out, you should disconnect the RSL if you had one.

ive always wondered what the purpose of disconnecting the RSL in this situation is, if the reserve is already out what difference would it make?

[wmw999 2,166]

I'm actually from before those days, and don't remember seeing it very often -- it was frowned on. But that was in Houston -- Alabama is different after all

As far as dangerous, well, stuff can go wrong, but I don't remember hearing about any fatalities from deliberate canopy transfers.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[John4455 0]

If you don't the lanyard is going to take off with the risers and there is a high probablily that it will whip around and entangle with something.

How do ya like it Johnny?

[billvon 2,463]

> I then pull the reserve, wait for it to inflate and *almost* get above my head . . .

You don't have to wait that long. Just waiting until it clears the bag will still give you a pretty fast opening. It's been my experience when you do this that line twists are very likely (after all the freebag is basically falling off your back) so waiting a shorter time might be a good idea.

[payback462 0]

ok, thats what i figured, thanks!

[tombuch 0]

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Not all that useful usually - malfunctions usually show up right at opening, and modern canopies don't often mal but continue going straight.

Actually, consider a case that I watched recently. A jumper had a spinning malfunction and was having trouble cutting away. He struggled, struggled, struggled...and at about 300-500 feet he chopped. Somehow, he lived. A reasonable alternative at that altitude would have been a transfer.

The process:

1) Recognize you have played too long.
2) Say OH SHIT!
3) Dump reserve to get more nylon out.
4) Chop ugly main, if possible.

I have watched a few very nice modern day transfers, including a few on BASE jumps. They generally work, but should be reserved for those cases where you are already too low for a normal cutaway.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[skybytch 259]

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Are you serious about this, or were you just joking around???

He's serious.

Canopy transfers were an accepted emergency procedure back in the all round days; many rounds in belly warts (chest mounted reserve containers) had no pilot chute so the container could be easily opened and the canopy "thrown in the direction of the spin..."

[riddler 0]

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I have watched a few very nice modern day transfers, including a few on BASE jumps.

OK - I know almost nothing about BASE, but I had no idea that any BASE rigs had more than one canopy. Do some BASE jumpers use two canopies specifically for this reason?

Also, can anyone say there's a definitive reason that canopy transfer has gone out of style (i.e. it's not taught anymore)?

[BlindBrick 0]

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Before you would cut away your main from a two canopies out, you should disconnect the RSL if you had one.

I did a transfer once when I realized I was in the very early stages of a two out situation. I didn't disconnect my rsl and it got hung up under the edge of the reserve ripcord cable housing, leaving me attached to my main. It was a very sick feeling knowing I had a reserve canopy moving to where the main was streaming above me. Luckily because the rsl was effectively suspending me from only one side, it cuased my body to shift and that let the rsl come free.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[BBKid 0]

Only a very few BASE containers take 2 canopies. The best known is the Warlock. http://www.skydivingmovies.com has some footage of a warlock cutaway/reserve sequence if you're interested.

Nick
---------------------------
"I've pierced my foot on a spike!!!"

[tombuch 0]

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OK - I know almost nothing about BASE, but I had no idea that any BASE rigs had more than one canopy. Do some BASE jumpers use two canopies specifically for this reason?

There are a few. And it is possible to do higher BASE jumps with conventional skydiving gear. You will see a lot of that at a big events like Bridge Day.

I was actually involved in a wrap from the 876 foot New River Gorge Bridge back in the 80's. The upper jumper was tangled in my lines as we passed through about 700 feet, spinning toward almost certain death. Cutting away wasn't an option, and neither was landing what we had.

I ended up deploying my reserve, but alas, we were spinning so fast that the pilot chute flew over my shoulder and dropped between my legs. I hand deployed it back into the air, but it was wrapped around a riser and couldn't get the reserve out. Fortunately, the reserve pilot chute by itself was enough to create tension on our lines, and that made it possible for the other jumper to kick free.

The episode was shot by Carl Boenish and incorporated into a film called "REACH," and there was a great series of four still photos in Skydiving shot by a guy named Steven Ilko.

So, that was an attempt at a transfer that didn't go exactly as planned, but it did carry me into bonus days. When all else fails, get more nylon overhead, kick and scream, and hope for the best.

Tom Buchanan
BASE 128
etc.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[jerm 0]

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Only a very few BASE containers take 2 canopies. The best known is the Warlock. http://www.skydivingmovies.com has some footage of a warlock cutaway/reserve sequence if you're interested.

Actually the Warlock is a single-canopy container.

I think you're thinking of the Sorcerer system developed years back by (i think) Marta.


It's a 2 canopy container with a direct-bag reserve system with the same idea (though different execution) as the new Skyhook system from Relative Workshop.


The video in question can be found HERE. The beginning is different, but the actual sequence is the best quality version of this jump that i've seen.

blue skies.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[jerm 0]

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Actually, consider a case that I watched recently. A jumper had a spinning malfunction and was having trouble cutting away. He struggled, struggled, struggled...and at about 300-500 feet he chopped. Somehow, he lived. A reasonable alternative at that altitude would have been a transfer.

I still say you're being generous with the upper-bound of that altitude assessment

though some people would say "he did it right, he lived", i really think he's a perfect example of my sig line...

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time