Have you known before? (dumb question alert)

[Michele 1]

I've been reading cutaway threads for a while now. Besides learning an absolute ton of things (thanks, everyone), I have also noticed that some people "feel" that something is wrong/off/bad/?? with that particular jump, but either didn't know better, shook it off, or whatever, and jumped anyway.

I was wondering, then, if some people "knew" this jump would be their cutaway jump, or the one they got hurt on, or whatever - not because it was an inherently dangerous jump. Just that nagging feeling beforehand.

Just really curious as to the hints I've seen in other posts...intuition? Or hindsight?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Kris 0]

Actually, Michele, that's a pretty interesting question.

On my first cutaway, everything felt right about the dive.

On my second cutaway, everything did not feel right. It was my first jump on my brand new Heatwave. After I attached it to the risers and attached the risers to the rig I checked it twice and had another person check the hookup.

I had a load of students to take up so I rushed the pack job a bit but took my time with the flaking.

There was something nagging me like I had forgotten something but I just shrugged it off. While putting out the students, I had the pilot gain a bit more altitude with each pass so when I put the last student out and got back over the DZ I was at about 4000-4500 AGL.

I left the plane, took 6-8 seconds to build up some speed and pitched. I felt something hit my container and then was stood-up by the opening. I looked up and there were three twists above the slider. I immediately leaned in the harness to try and counter but the closed end-cells on one side nixed that idea and it spun up several more times.

At that point I was on my back and spinning pretty hard. I tried twice to kick my body over to get the twists out but wasn't making any progress. I chopped and was instantly under my reserve.

In hind-sight, I left only 8-12 inches of free line between the last stow and the riser. I always usually leave about 18 inches. What I felt hit my back was my D-bag bouncing in my burble before the first couple of stows were un-done by the snatch-force of the PC.

The really sad fact is that I was joking to someone before I went up that it was my first jump on my brand-new canopy so someone keep an eye out for the main & free-bag.

Since then, I listen to that inner-voice a lot more and, in one case, I found something after re-doing part of the pack-job that probably would have caused a total; I used to fold my PC in half as the last step before putting it in the pouch. When I tried to take it out on the ground to check, it bunched up and locked in the pouch. It took me almost a minute to smooth it out & worm it out of the pouch so I could refold it.

Since then I have been using Brian Germain's method of packing PC's to prevent horse-shoes and have had nothing but smooth pulls.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Scoby 0]

For what it's worth, I've had a number of jumps that I've felt strange about. Nothing happened on any of these jumps. When I did get really whacked by an opening, I felt nothing out of the ordinary beforehand. I think we feel a bit apprehensive on some percentage of our jumps, with that percentage varying by person to person. When the feeling coincides with a mal, or injury, or anything else, we see a connection when there really isn't one there. We conveniently forget all of the jumps where we felt that feeling, but nothing happened. As humans, we are always looking for patterns, but sometimes we are making something from nothing.

Or something...

[Michele 1]

Hi, Scoby. (And hi, Kris!)

I discount that nagging feeling every jump...but I think there's more to it than that nagging feeling, that little thought that can be shaken off. I mean the other one...

How's that for clarity?

Like I said, it could be hindsight, too...thus the question.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[blueshrew 0]

On my cutaway, I didn't get a bad feeling before the jump, but I get a funny feeling every now and then, and check my rig like a thousand times in the plane, but never a cutaway then.

[dterrick 0]

Blue ones Michele!

I chopped on jump #20 (student, 6 month layoff from IAD (s/l style progresion) opening weekend jump #5 this spring) and since then I NEVER ignore the little naggy voice...

Twice I've scrubbed from a load only to have my replacement go on to have a mal... that just wierded me out completely ... a similar feeling to having chopped to a 24 ' round at terminal on a bad spot. with no steering or directional control to speak of I was 'dropped' onto a demo-style landing area with trees power lines and ditches 75 ft on either side of me and a half-demilished barracks 75 ft behind me. I couldn't duplicate that landing if I TRIED.

More to the point though, I had a HORRIBLE jump on an accuracy competition where that feeling started once I was onboard. The plane wasn't running 'right', it was turbulent below 500 ft on the climb, I missed the windsock, was on a rushed load. I did my best to shake the feeling but it lasted. Pulled fine but the spot (2nd out on an accuracy pass at 3k) was long and I had to fly straight back and just get onto the ground.

That jump was (is) the one and only time I can still think of where I should have listened to myself and NOT jumped. I try not to think of it too much but rather remember the really GOOD jumps.

Dave


Todaay will be a Grreat day for Sciience
-"Dexter"

[kansasskydiver 0]

Yes I do think some of us know it's going to happen, have all the signs but never understood what they were.

Jump 17, it was going to be a fun jump, a bunch of new stuff. 360's, tracking, docking with the JM. Matt taught me all the things I needed to know for the jump and then pulled me off to the side and drilled me on emergency procedures. I was current, it had only been a week since my last jump, but I went along with the advice from a senior jumper. I put my gloves on for the first time, went over the look reach pull 1 thous 2 thous check a couple times on the ground and then got into the plane. In the plane I kept touching my handle, making sure it was kept properally, making sure I could grad it with my gloves on. Matt double checked it, made sure etc. But nothing at that point was scaring me, I was just observing it.

We got out of the plane. Did a swoop exit, docked with my JM, 360' dock, then a back flip, turn 180, track. 4K wave off, 3500 pull. 3000 ft Clink!!!!

I had a line over, dead center of the canopy. Flew my reserve back to the DZ while the others went after the canopy and freebag. I remember thinking, "WOW this canopy is awesome" and then remembering why I was under this new canopy. I sat there histerically for maybe a good 10 mins after, then we went over my pack job, repacked and got back in the plane.

I've never felt that way again

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[billvon 2,400]

I've had six cutaways so far. On five of them (malfunctions) I had no odd feelings before the jump. On the sixth one (an intentional cutaway) I had a distinct feeling I was going to be cutting away a canopy, but that's not the same thing . . .

[Michele 1]

Quote

On the sixth one (an intentional cutaway) I had a distinct feeling I was going to be cutting away a canopy, but that's not the same thing . . .

...the mad scientist has a sense of humor!

Actually, it is interesting because I had the thought that something was "off" on my cutaway, but I can't recall if it was definitive before, or it was hindsight...thus the question.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[skybytch 259]

No cutaways yet, but on the jump I broke lines I didn't have any thoughts that something was wrong ahead of time.

I do have a few stories about "feeling something" before a fatality though.

[eeneR 1]

Well I would have to say that on my cutaway something felt odd. Then at 5 minute call I had to go to the bathroom really bad. The 10 way coach said to run, i would make it back and should have no problem getting on the load....so I ran, gearing up as I am running thru the hanger. made it and had redid my gear check before boarding......few minutes later.....oohhh pretty purple spinning canopy, then pop pop, ooh pretty yellow canopy!

My advice, if you gotta go before the load, go...unless ya wanna wet your jumpsuit!!! hee hee

It ended well, as my honey (who should have been halfway to milwaukee, but didnt leave cause he lost his cell, and was waiting for me) was walking down the tracks to meet me.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[Unutsch 0]

I to pretty much believe in such (almost) para(ab)normal things.

On my 1st cut-away, I never felt anything, probably 'cause my inner voice was to much into my first 4-way jump... so as I looked up during the opening sequence, a friend of mine flew right by me at 1 or less meters, his canopy caught my spring pilot chute, threw it around the canopy... cut away, opened resereve, landed...

before the 2nd reserve ride, I had a strange feeling, mainly 'cause an other friend of mine packed the chute I was going to jump. I knew he was slopy with his pack jobs, but he never had a problem with openings, so i just went and jumped... so i tracked away from the girl i was trying to teach some sit, grabbed the pilot chute, and got this strange feeling in my stomach, threw it away, the feeling got worse, and after 0,5 - 1s, when I didn't feel the bag flying out the rig, I was 100% something weard is going to happen. then the chute stood me up, looked up to see 3 linetwists, and it inflated into a violent spin, as I tryed to free myself, it only got worse. So I again cut away (i actually had fun during the time from my cut-away till stabilizing myself :-)), opened reserve, landed.

In my opinion, there is something to it, just don't know what.

Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation:
http://www.padliangeli.org

[mickb 0]

Good point Michele
How many people have had a funny feeling and ignored it
Only to have something happen.
Something that happened to me a few years ago
Had a nightmare about not been able to get the reserve out.
Ignored it I hadn’t jumped for a few weeks so I put it down to that.
It happened twice more that week.
The last one was the night before we drove up to the dz.
I decided to pop the reserve (it was almost due for a repack)
Put my rig on and standing in my living room went through the drill.
Cutaway ok grabbed the silver and pulled.
Nothing I was stood there swinging on the handle there was no way that reserve was coming out.
Took the rig off and inspected the pin and cable.
Found that it had been packed with all the slack cable at the pin side.
The slack cable had formed a loop and was pulled into the soft housing
Preventing the cable from pulling the pin.
My wife and I just looked at each other mouths open.
I took out the loop and tried again this time the pull was ok
We packed up and drove to the DZ for the weekend
Had the reserve repacked and made sure all the slack was at the handle side.
First jump an uneventful four way down to 3500ft
Turned away and tracked and dumped the main at 2500ft
It opened with pressure knots in the line group and end cell closure
Found out I could fly it with slight brakes on the opposite side
At this point I was undecided about chopping it.
Normally I would have chopped it but I still had what happened
On my mind and as I had an 175ft fairly docile canopy
I decided to land it.
Big mistake got down to about fifteen hundred feet when I hit severe turbulence
And the whole thing turned into a bag of crap.
No hesitation chop
The relief at looking up and seeing a good reserve was indescribable.
But if I had ignored it


Mickb

[skygirlpc 0]

Hey!
I have not had a cut-away yet, but I was on a plane that had problems and ended up "emergency landing" fairly roughly. It was weird because my strange feelings came about because I was so calm. I remember thinking, "wow, why am I so calm?" It made me nervous. Then we prepared for and experienced the landing.

My mom, who comes to almost all my jumps, said as the plane started to take-off she got a weird feeling. I guess there really is something to the whole "mothers intuition"!

Danielle

[SpaceUnknown 0]

I've heard that the more you listen to these feelings the stronger and more frequent they get and ingoring them sorta lessens the feelings. I have no idea if this is true but it's something to think about I guess, right?

James

AAAAA - American Association Against Acronym Abuse.

[KawiZX900 0]

i've had the feeling did'nt heed the quiet good advice and forged ahead..

once on a motorcycle= totalled
once upon a skydive=torn ligament


next bike, i'm going to have listen to the wind on the gas tank...
a guy just cant live off of smokin tires,130hp at the rear, high octane gas, camels and red bull alone....
wowee, i was around 500-600 miles a day on the bike for 2 weeks straight on the bike when i wrecked... the last day of vacation nontheless.
i had the feeling, castles made of sand, voice of reason, vibe, all that shit. pay heed.
it's hard to do on the fly, because thats what it is..
whenever the little one pipes up, take a fiver, and breathe, listen, address, and heed.. it don't lie.

Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky

[Scrumpot 1]

This is a common "phenomenon" actually, and is in no way unique to skydiving. ...It's pretty simple really. Take the person who flies (commercially) a lot. Many people, almost EVERY time they get on a commercial airliner, at some point during waiting or boarding get this "sneaky twinge" (maybe it's as they passed that flight insurance kiosk or somethin') It's basic human nature when taking part in ANY activity that involves any level of (even perceived) risk. They board the flight (as they have for sake of this example: 100's of times before), and everything goes as "normal". They pretty much just simply forget that "twinge" they had earlier as they deplane. Next time though, on the return trip, the plane has an engine flame-out or something and an emergency landing....

Immediately they think: "I KNEW SOMETHING WAS GONNA HAPPEN on THIS FLIGHT!!"

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[arlo 0]

I'll make a general statement instead of one that is "cut-away" specific.

I trust my instinct. If something doesn't feel quite right, then there's a reason for it so I don't mess with it. I had that happen in CA on during JFTC. That day I had a contact blow out + a total mal on one jump (STRIKE 1). Next jump was with borrowed gear and both contacts blew out (STRIKE 2). While trying to put my 3rd set of contacts in, one was stuck together out of the blister pack...then tore. You know all that shit about things happen in 3s? Well, after those 2 strikes, I opted to sit down for the rest of the day. I saw no reason to tempt anything. Ask Lisa....she was witness to that whole pile of shit day I was having.

I guess it's just a matter of how much you believe in or trust your instincts or "whatever" you wanna call that little nagging feeling that something just quite isn't right. What's the worst thing that could happen for listening to it? You miss one jump? I've found that most of the people I know full-on agree with the decision to step down from a jump if it doesn't feel right. To trust or not to trust? Depends on what you have to lose....

blues,
arlo