kallend 1,623 #26 November 16, 2002 My university has just gone through it's periodic accreditation process. This was a lot of work for me, since I had to coordinate the preparations. Now, our students don't die or suffer serious injury if we mess up as a university - they just get less value for money in their education. Regardless, we submit to this periodic evaluation by external reviewers, and the effort required is considered well worthwhile because the feedback we get enables us to improve our operation. I really fail to see that having some external review of a DZ to see that its instructional program is in good shape is such a big deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #27 November 16, 2002 Quote I really fail to see that having some external review of a DZ to see that its instructional program is in good shape is such a big deal. Interesting point. I hadn't thought of this issue in such simple, non-industry terms. I think one of our big problems is that many skydivers and dropzone owners are fierce individuals and will not recognize any national standard. We have a hard time even agreeing on things like minimum ages, equipment standards, training or curriculum standards, instructor qualifications, pilot qualifications, or just about anything else. So, rather than offend or discourage the low qualilty operations we water down our standards to the point that they are almost meaningless. Still, almost-meaningless is a huge step away from meaningless. Seeking certification or inspection should be a desirable quality, and DZ's that do that should be rewarded. The one DZ that has participated in the USPA inspection program so far, did so because they wanted an outside evaluation to help them improve their program. The university accreditation is a good analogy. Now, how can we encourage individual dropzones to recognize a national standard and then seek an outside evaluation?Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #28 November 16, 2002 Quote Quote I really fail to see that having some external review of a DZ to see that its instructional program is in good shape is such a big deal. Interesting point. I hadn't thought of this issue in such simple, non-industry terms. I think one of our big problems is that many skydivers and dropzone owners are fierce individuals and will not recognize any national standard. We have a hard time even agreeing ... You want opinionated? You should go meet some tenured full professors sometime (like me.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudseeder 0 #29 November 16, 2002 Quote Your wish is my command. I knew you'd come around! Now hop on one leg, flap your arms like a chicken and bark like a dog! (I fixed the quotes and a typo for you. It'll be good for your campaign to appear polished. ~ sangiro) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudseeder 0 #30 November 16, 2002 QuoteQuoteI'm not here begging for anyones vote and I really could care less if I'm elected or not. I don't "want" to be on the Board If you were actually motivated to represent the fun jumpers, then I would have hoped that you would care if you were elected or not. Hopefully you, as a voice of the fun jumper, would make it a priority to push for your platform and care very much if you were elected or not. I understand the point you were trying to make, the 'farmer turned president turned farmer' attitude that was previlant in the Federalist party in the late 1700's; however, that attitude is lost here, __________________________________________________ What? You must be a college kid! Why would I work hard for a position that I don't want? One where I gain no profit? No Dave, your thinking is skewed. Those who have a personal or profitary interest in a BOD position will work very hard to get elected. They'll even beg for your vote. I"m volunteering to represent the Fun Jumpers. Whether or not I get elected I'll still continue to do what I do, jump for fun. One thing that I can promise you is that if I am elected I will fight "Tooth and Nail" to protect my interests and the interests of My Fellow Fun Jumpers. __________________________________________________ You sir, do not have my vote. __________________________________________________ Look, I've not been Knighted yet . That's scheduled for this Wednesday so in the mean time remember that I'm not a sir. And use your ballot to elect those who you believe will best represent you. Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings Dave, for you and yours, "Treetop" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudseeder 0 #31 November 16, 2002 [(I fixed the quotes and a typo for you. It'll be good for your campaign to appear polished. ~ sangiro) Thanks! Just one more request... As long as you are performing my secretarial duties would you mind slipping in to this negligee and these high heels as you strut around the office? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #32 November 17, 2002 one thing you all fail to understand is that the current Bod tends to do what it want regardless of the rules. Of all the candidates Don has help point that out to them (even if they didn't want to see it). Don how many times was it this year alone? What about charging nonmember dz's for having the aff course? This is for the fun jumper not the dz. How about the HQ mess, the price doubled in 6 months? We (USPA) are in the red, can we afford to throw money away. Do away with the GM program and start keeping fun jumpers, jumping I do not want to see this Quote As long as you are performing my secretarial duties would you mind slipping in to this negligee and these high heels as you strut around the office? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudseeder 0 #33 November 17, 2002 Treetop---Nice improvement in tone, now, please bring it down even one notch further. __________________________________________________ Hey ,you know.. My freinds and I may sit around with our shirts off at my house sratching our nuts and screaming obscentities as we watch Monday night football. When we go to another buddies house where kids are running around we conduct ourselves very diferently. Snow problem! __________________________________________________ I'll answer your last question first because it was a bit antagonistic: No, I do not receive any income from The Ranch. I was on staff as an instructor for many years but no longer am. Now, I pay for my jumps, just like everybody else. I serve as S&TA in an unpaid position because I think somebody should do that, and after 20 years in the sport it is my way to give back. __________________________________________________ Kudos to you then Mr. Buchanan. I'm sure you are aware that you are a very strange beast. Unlike yesterdays, today the majority of S+TAs are either the DZO or an employee(subcontractor really )of the DZO. __________________________________________________ I'm snipping here Mr. Buchanan not as any insult , your statement obviously has merit, but for the sake of readability. I find that when a reply gets to long most don't suffer through. What I'm going to offer is my opinion on how the GM Program should be handled. You may not agree with my thoughts. First let me state that the GM Program in it's present form is often diametrically opposed to the best interests of the Skydivers. One example of this is the current requirement pushed through and supported by the GMs that any non-GM DZ wishing to provide an AFFCC is required to pay a fee of $400. This fee only serves to restrict the skydivers options as to an instructional course. If a non GM DZO decides to accomadate the needs of the local jumpers by providing an AFFCC he will be forced to charge the local jumpers some dollar amount more than what would customarily be charged at a GMDZ. I'm for the elimination of the present GM Program. The current program is not self funding. We Individual Members annualy ante up at least $40,000 to keep this program afloat. The GM program as it now stands does nothing to ensure that group members abide by any standard of safety. I don't believe that USPA can concurently serve the best interests of the Individual Members and the Group Members. I believe that the Group Members should form their own organization and it may require a bit of *tough love* by USPA booting them out of "Our Association" to get that ball rolling. Once We have divested ourselves of the Group Member Program I believe that the USPA DropZone Inspection program will be a valuable tool for the DZs to show that they do run a tight ship. I would be ameniable to a monthly listing in Parachutist of the names of all DZs which have passed the USPA inspection process. When issues come up through Congress or the FAA which would affect skydivers rights USPA should still be right there. If it's an airspace issue we would side with the DZs. If it's a mandatory AAD issue we should side against them. If it's over regulation of jump aircarft or pilots, again We should stand side to side with the DZOs. Yes, I believe that it is past time for the elimination of the Group Member program.I also believe that USPA can and should work together with a DropZone Owners organization to better serve Our Members, the skydivers. "Treetop" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #34 November 17, 2002 QuoteWe (USPA) are in the red, can we afford to throw money away. Do away with the GM program and start keeping fun jumpers, jumping reply] Most of the functions of the group member program (DZ directory, government relations, airport access) also benefit individual members. If you do away with the group member program we will still have most of the expenses, but none of the group member income. As a fun jumper I think the DZO's should cover some of the cost of our national organization, since they are, after all, the ones making money from the industry.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christoofar 0 #35 November 17, 2002 QuoteAllen Flynn is running as a write in for the Gulf Region. He was in Parachutist last month or the month before, all in all a great guy. On your scale he gets a 5 from me. I agree... Allen Flynn is the bomb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #36 November 17, 2002 Tom explain how this keeps skydivers skydiving QuoteFirst let me state that the GM Program in it's present form is often diametrically opposed to the best interests of the Skydivers. One example of this is the current requirement pushed through and supported by the GMs that any non-GM DZ wishing to provide an AFFCC is required to pay a fee of $400. This fee only serves to restrict the skydivers options as to an instructional course. If a non GM DZO decides to accomadate the needs of the local jumpers by providing an AFFCC he will be forced to charge the local jumpers some dollar amount more than what would customarily be charged at a GMDZ. to have them (the group members) here as more than skydivers really changes the uspa from being a club to being a method to extract the most money from the student as possible aka coaches rating as with everything else, when in doubt follow the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #37 November 17, 2002 Ok... I've heard some things that you can get by being a GM that keeps skydivers jumping... namely a decrease in plane airframe insurance. That allows for lower ticket prices to each jumper. Access to the jumper database after hours to meet proof of insurance requirements some airports have is another thing. The GM program is nice for some things... but it needs phased out and the benifits offered to everyone and the whole "Any Non-GM DZ is dangerous!!" or "GM means you are a safer DZ" thing needs to end. And the coach rating does'nt mean you have to pass the cost to the student. I know of coaches that don't charge the student anything to meet the licence requirements. No charge for the slot...nothing. Just beacuse you can charge does'nt mean you have to...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sangiro 4 #38 November 17, 2002 QuoteThanks! Just one more request... As long as you are performing my secretarial duties would you mind slipping in to this negligee and these high heels as you strut around the office? Any time. While I was in your office I found that big can of BS you keep under your desk that you've been feeding people on rec.skydiving for as long as I can remember. It seems like you're trying to give us some of that over here as well. If you don't want the job (as you've now said many times), don't post, keep quiet, keep a low profile, nobody will know about you, nobody will vote for you, you won't be elected, you won't get the job, we'll all be better off and you'll be happier because you won't be doing something you really don't want to do. Either that or at least stand up and say, yes, I actually can and want to make a difference. Here's how I'm going to do it. Vote for me. You're either not being truthful and insulting our intelligence with a weak attempt at reverse psychology, or you're someone who really doesn't want to be on the board and therefor doesn't deserve to be elected. Which one is it?Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudseeder 0 #39 November 17, 2002 QuoteQuoteWe (USPA) are in the red, can we afford to throw money away. Do away with the GM program and start keeping fun jumpers, jumping reply] __________________________________________________ This is the beauty of my plan Mr. Buchanan. The DZs will be srambling to one up each other. They'll be dying to be inspected and we'll finally have some meaningful criteria to evaluate them by! They wont be USPA Group Members but rather a USPA Inspected DropZone. The great part is that the inspection fee will equal the old GM Dues. Income loss to USPA will be small but the real information afforded the Members and students will be great! "Treetop" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #40 November 17, 2002 come on Sangiro, you and I know what he means. I didn't want the job but was going to run (before my father got sick) because the fun jumpers need someone to stick up for them. The good old boys don't. I like nebies, they are fun and it pisses me off when I see the dz's try to extract the max money out of them. Not all do, I don't see every dzo as a evil ^%$#. I did notice that when i went to chicagoland skydiving that the "paid" coach jumps were already add to the price of the aff cost. I never once paid for a coach jump, i return the favor when ever i can. Not the uspa wants to stop that. Follow the money I tell ya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudseeder 0 #41 November 17, 2002 Any time. While I was in your office I found that big can of BS you keep under your desk that you've been feeding people on rec.skydiving for as long as I can remember. It seems like you're trying to give us some of that over here as well. If you don't want the job (as you've now said many times), don't post, keep quiet, keep a low profile, nobody will know about you, nobody will vote for you, you won't be elected, you won't get the job, we'll all be better off and you'll be happier because you won't be doing something you really don't want to do. Either that or at least stand up and say, yes, I actually can and want to make a difference. Here's how I'm going to do it. Vote for me. You're either not being truthful and insulting our intelligence with a weak attempt at reverse psychology, or you're someone who really doesn't want to be on the board and therefor doesn't deserve to be elected. Which one is it? __________________________________________________ I wonder if that is the longest reply Sangrio has ever posted? Beer?Hey Honcho, would you be more inclined to vote for someone who wants a position on the BOD? Some one who would, lie, cheat,steal and sell their Momma to get there? Look, as I've I previously stated I am willing to *volunteer* to represent the Fun Jumpers by serving on the BOD. If I am elected I will give my all to fight for the Fun Jumpers best interests. There is no hidden agenda. I'm not a profiteer. Serving on the BOD will take up a large part of my fun time. I couldn't care less whether or not I'm elected. If you think I'll do a good job of representing theFun Jumpers, check the ballot. If you think that eight others will do a better job elect them. Either way it's no skin off my nose. I'm "Treetop" and I'll be skydiving regardless! It's just that simple! "Treetop" , the Fun Jumpers Candidate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #42 November 17, 2002 Quote This is the beauty of my plan Mr. Buchanan. The DZs will be srambling to one up each other. They'll be dying to be inspected and we'll finally have some meaningful criteria to evaluate them by! It could happen some day, but not soon. The DZO's are in no rush to have inspections now. They each want to advertise that they are the best, but not have the obligation of actually measuring up to any standard. We need standards, and we need to compel anybody working with students or running a student program to comply with a national standard. You and I disagree about this, but I sure appreciate your posting here, now. It's an interesting debate. I think we may get to the world you dream about, but it is a long way off, and we can't risk loosing the group member program in the mean time. Honestly, I spoke with state regulators over the summer in many, many states, and all stay away from us because they perceive the group affiliation program means DZ's are conforming to a national standard. Loose that and we'll have a hodge-podge of state regulators moving on us from all directions. Not all at once, but over time. I don't think USPA can track fifty hostile targets at once, and worry about the FAA. Oh and hey, it isn't just the state aviation regulations we need to worry about. There are consumer interest groups too. Ughhhh. The damage they could do.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #43 November 17, 2002 Hey, Cloudseeder... Nope, that was not HH's longest post, so no beer for you! Here's my issue with you as a candidate, in simple straight language. I don't trust you. I have seen the stuff you post over on wreckdot. I have done a search here and seen what you have posted. I have no other experience of you other than being antagonistic, rude, and more than a little arrogant. I have seen a bit of a change here because it's a "vote for me" thread, but you're still argumentative and confrontive, and have managed to not answer the questions but instead accuse people, and point fingers. You have given the beginnings of answers, but you get sidetracked into something very close to a pissing match, and don't tell me specifically what you will do to implement your ideas...and some of them are interesting. I would like to hear more of them...but you haven't taken the time to lay it out. I am a fun jumper. I do not forsee a time wherein I will do more than 6-8 jumps a month, and never expect to garner an income from this sport. You want to represent "fun jumpers", thus you will be the "odd guy out". How do you think you'll be able to do something beneficial for me, with my dues $$ (which represents lost jump tickets to me...), when all you do is antagonize and alienate people? Lastly, I have great hesitation in your "I don't want to" position. If you don't want to, you won't, and all this is all about is your ego and status. If you do want to (which I think is the truth), saying you don't want to makes me say "o.k., I want my vote to count, so I'll vote for someone else". If you can clarify your position, as in "I want to represent fun jumpers, but don't look forward to dealing with the bureaucracy and good ol' boy network", that's understandable...but your "I don't want to" position is a very good reason to NOT vote for you. BTW, AggieDave is an intelligent guy, although young and hotheaded. In his attempt to show respect, he called you "sir". And in typical Treetop style, you smacked him down...simply because he showed you respect. I find that inherently symbolic of your attitude and public persona. It's all well and good to be one thing privately and another in public, but since public behavior is all I can see of you, sir, that is what I will be making my judgment on. Hope you have a ball jumping this weekend.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #44 November 17, 2002 >What? and My disclaimer is somehow a bad thing? Depends on who you want on the board. You say in that post that you enjoy offending people and making things up, and some people may see that as a negative. That's why I posted the link, so people can decide for themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #45 November 17, 2002 >If so you have acces to my candidates statement even if it was > edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance > Manual, but that's a whole 'nuther topic. In what ways was it edited? Did they change one of your all-caps paragraphs to properly capitalized text, or did they change the meaning of what you wrote? >I don't "want" to be on the Board. You should make that clearer in your candidate's statement. It's a rather important detail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #46 November 17, 2002 Don -- I'll admit you've got some right thinking when it comes to the GM program and USPA VCIPs. That said, no matter how intelligent you may be, no matter how good your ideas are, no matter if you claim to represent the little guy or not, no matter how selfless you'll work -- nobody gets voted into office if they are perceived by the -majority- of the people as a trouble-maker and malcontent. I don't think you're going to get a seat this year because of your past and if you truly want to make a difference, then you need to start building some bridges so that you can get a seat in the future. Otherwise, you're just going to be seen as a crazed ol' looney skydiver. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I just don't want that guy working for me. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites indyz 1 #47 November 17, 2002 Don, Since you seemed to have missed my last post, I'll ask again: - Can we see an unedited copy of your candidates statement, which you claim was, "edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance Manual" ? - What specific changes would you make to the GM program? - How do you plan on convincing the FAA to lengthen the repack cycle? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudseeder 0 #48 November 17, 2002 QuoteDon, Since you seemed to have missed my last post, __________________________________________________ Sorry about that. in the future please send any questions or concerns to [email protected]. also you can reach me at (706) 273-8466 days or (706) 635-6603 evening before 9:00 Pm. ___________________________________________________I'll ask again: - Can we see an unedited copy of your candidates statement, which you claim was, "edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance Manual" ? ___________________________________________________ Yes you can see the unedited edition! I have no doubt that after this weekends Executive Comittee meeting my "original" statement will be available for all to peruse on Our website. - What specific changes would you make to the GM program? See my reply to Tom Buchanan. - How do you plan on convincing the FAA to lengthen the repack cycle? Now that is a great question. Obviously We need to supply the FAA with Data! The more the better! Did you realize Brian, that Mike Mullins has volunteered the lift aircraft to collect the data? Did you realize that Jessie Farington has volunteered the rigs for the experiments? We should take advantage of these voluntary resources and collect the data! Now some like Mr. Buchanan have legitimate concerns about the 180 day re-pack cycle. Mr Buchanans' main concern seems to center around external inspections of the rig between the120 day and the 180 day interval. I propose that We develop a standard procedure for an external inspection and require as an A Licence requirement that the student jumper demonstrate the skills to perform an external inspection of his/ her gear . I believe that if the FAA is provided data showing that reserves open just as well whether they are packed for 180 or 120 days, and they are also provided an assurance that all licensed skydivers understand how to perform an external inspection of their rig, They would be hard pressed not to comply with Our request for a 180 day repack cycle. If after providing all this info some FAA type doesn't want to play ball, I have an Ace up my sleeve. "Treetop' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudseeder 0 #49 November 17, 2002 Quote Hey, Cloudseeder... Nope, that was not HH's longest post, so no beer for you! Here's my issue with you as a candidate, in simple straight language. I don't trust you. __________________________________________________ Well don't vote for me than Michelle LOL! That's not so hard to figure out is it? Did you really believe that we should hold a discussion group meeting to figure that one out? If you don't Trust me just don't vote for me , It should be pretty simple! Even for chicks.LOFL! Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings Michelle, for you and yours, "Treetop" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #50 November 17, 2002 >we need to compel anybody working with students or running a >student program to comply with a national standard. Do you have any evidence that a lack of such enforcement has resulted in a greater number of injuries or deaths? If not, what, in real terms, will such a program accomplish? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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christoofar 0 #35 November 17, 2002 QuoteAllen Flynn is running as a write in for the Gulf Region. He was in Parachutist last month or the month before, all in all a great guy. On your scale he gets a 5 from me. I agree... Allen Flynn is the bomb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #36 November 17, 2002 Tom explain how this keeps skydivers skydiving QuoteFirst let me state that the GM Program in it's present form is often diametrically opposed to the best interests of the Skydivers. One example of this is the current requirement pushed through and supported by the GMs that any non-GM DZ wishing to provide an AFFCC is required to pay a fee of $400. This fee only serves to restrict the skydivers options as to an instructional course. If a non GM DZO decides to accomadate the needs of the local jumpers by providing an AFFCC he will be forced to charge the local jumpers some dollar amount more than what would customarily be charged at a GMDZ. to have them (the group members) here as more than skydivers really changes the uspa from being a club to being a method to extract the most money from the student as possible aka coaches rating as with everything else, when in doubt follow the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #37 November 17, 2002 Ok... I've heard some things that you can get by being a GM that keeps skydivers jumping... namely a decrease in plane airframe insurance. That allows for lower ticket prices to each jumper. Access to the jumper database after hours to meet proof of insurance requirements some airports have is another thing. The GM program is nice for some things... but it needs phased out and the benifits offered to everyone and the whole "Any Non-GM DZ is dangerous!!" or "GM means you are a safer DZ" thing needs to end. And the coach rating does'nt mean you have to pass the cost to the student. I know of coaches that don't charge the student anything to meet the licence requirements. No charge for the slot...nothing. Just beacuse you can charge does'nt mean you have to...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #38 November 17, 2002 QuoteThanks! Just one more request... As long as you are performing my secretarial duties would you mind slipping in to this negligee and these high heels as you strut around the office? Any time. While I was in your office I found that big can of BS you keep under your desk that you've been feeding people on rec.skydiving for as long as I can remember. It seems like you're trying to give us some of that over here as well. If you don't want the job (as you've now said many times), don't post, keep quiet, keep a low profile, nobody will know about you, nobody will vote for you, you won't be elected, you won't get the job, we'll all be better off and you'll be happier because you won't be doing something you really don't want to do. Either that or at least stand up and say, yes, I actually can and want to make a difference. Here's how I'm going to do it. Vote for me. You're either not being truthful and insulting our intelligence with a weak attempt at reverse psychology, or you're someone who really doesn't want to be on the board and therefor doesn't deserve to be elected. Which one is it?Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudseeder 0 #39 November 17, 2002 QuoteQuoteWe (USPA) are in the red, can we afford to throw money away. Do away with the GM program and start keeping fun jumpers, jumping reply] __________________________________________________ This is the beauty of my plan Mr. Buchanan. The DZs will be srambling to one up each other. They'll be dying to be inspected and we'll finally have some meaningful criteria to evaluate them by! They wont be USPA Group Members but rather a USPA Inspected DropZone. The great part is that the inspection fee will equal the old GM Dues. Income loss to USPA will be small but the real information afforded the Members and students will be great! "Treetop" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #40 November 17, 2002 come on Sangiro, you and I know what he means. I didn't want the job but was going to run (before my father got sick) because the fun jumpers need someone to stick up for them. The good old boys don't. I like nebies, they are fun and it pisses me off when I see the dz's try to extract the max money out of them. Not all do, I don't see every dzo as a evil ^%$#. I did notice that when i went to chicagoland skydiving that the "paid" coach jumps were already add to the price of the aff cost. I never once paid for a coach jump, i return the favor when ever i can. Not the uspa wants to stop that. Follow the money I tell ya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudseeder 0 #41 November 17, 2002 Any time. While I was in your office I found that big can of BS you keep under your desk that you've been feeding people on rec.skydiving for as long as I can remember. It seems like you're trying to give us some of that over here as well. If you don't want the job (as you've now said many times), don't post, keep quiet, keep a low profile, nobody will know about you, nobody will vote for you, you won't be elected, you won't get the job, we'll all be better off and you'll be happier because you won't be doing something you really don't want to do. Either that or at least stand up and say, yes, I actually can and want to make a difference. Here's how I'm going to do it. Vote for me. You're either not being truthful and insulting our intelligence with a weak attempt at reverse psychology, or you're someone who really doesn't want to be on the board and therefor doesn't deserve to be elected. Which one is it? __________________________________________________ I wonder if that is the longest reply Sangrio has ever posted? Beer?Hey Honcho, would you be more inclined to vote for someone who wants a position on the BOD? Some one who would, lie, cheat,steal and sell their Momma to get there? Look, as I've I previously stated I am willing to *volunteer* to represent the Fun Jumpers by serving on the BOD. If I am elected I will give my all to fight for the Fun Jumpers best interests. There is no hidden agenda. I'm not a profiteer. Serving on the BOD will take up a large part of my fun time. I couldn't care less whether or not I'm elected. If you think I'll do a good job of representing theFun Jumpers, check the ballot. If you think that eight others will do a better job elect them. Either way it's no skin off my nose. I'm "Treetop" and I'll be skydiving regardless! It's just that simple! "Treetop" , the Fun Jumpers Candidate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #42 November 17, 2002 Quote This is the beauty of my plan Mr. Buchanan. The DZs will be srambling to one up each other. They'll be dying to be inspected and we'll finally have some meaningful criteria to evaluate them by! It could happen some day, but not soon. The DZO's are in no rush to have inspections now. They each want to advertise that they are the best, but not have the obligation of actually measuring up to any standard. We need standards, and we need to compel anybody working with students or running a student program to comply with a national standard. You and I disagree about this, but I sure appreciate your posting here, now. It's an interesting debate. I think we may get to the world you dream about, but it is a long way off, and we can't risk loosing the group member program in the mean time. Honestly, I spoke with state regulators over the summer in many, many states, and all stay away from us because they perceive the group affiliation program means DZ's are conforming to a national standard. Loose that and we'll have a hodge-podge of state regulators moving on us from all directions. Not all at once, but over time. I don't think USPA can track fifty hostile targets at once, and worry about the FAA. Oh and hey, it isn't just the state aviation regulations we need to worry about. There are consumer interest groups too. Ughhhh. The damage they could do.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #43 November 17, 2002 Hey, Cloudseeder... Nope, that was not HH's longest post, so no beer for you! Here's my issue with you as a candidate, in simple straight language. I don't trust you. I have seen the stuff you post over on wreckdot. I have done a search here and seen what you have posted. I have no other experience of you other than being antagonistic, rude, and more than a little arrogant. I have seen a bit of a change here because it's a "vote for me" thread, but you're still argumentative and confrontive, and have managed to not answer the questions but instead accuse people, and point fingers. You have given the beginnings of answers, but you get sidetracked into something very close to a pissing match, and don't tell me specifically what you will do to implement your ideas...and some of them are interesting. I would like to hear more of them...but you haven't taken the time to lay it out. I am a fun jumper. I do not forsee a time wherein I will do more than 6-8 jumps a month, and never expect to garner an income from this sport. You want to represent "fun jumpers", thus you will be the "odd guy out". How do you think you'll be able to do something beneficial for me, with my dues $$ (which represents lost jump tickets to me...), when all you do is antagonize and alienate people? Lastly, I have great hesitation in your "I don't want to" position. If you don't want to, you won't, and all this is all about is your ego and status. If you do want to (which I think is the truth), saying you don't want to makes me say "o.k., I want my vote to count, so I'll vote for someone else". If you can clarify your position, as in "I want to represent fun jumpers, but don't look forward to dealing with the bureaucracy and good ol' boy network", that's understandable...but your "I don't want to" position is a very good reason to NOT vote for you. BTW, AggieDave is an intelligent guy, although young and hotheaded. In his attempt to show respect, he called you "sir". And in typical Treetop style, you smacked him down...simply because he showed you respect. I find that inherently symbolic of your attitude and public persona. It's all well and good to be one thing privately and another in public, but since public behavior is all I can see of you, sir, that is what I will be making my judgment on. Hope you have a ball jumping this weekend.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #44 November 17, 2002 >What? and My disclaimer is somehow a bad thing? Depends on who you want on the board. You say in that post that you enjoy offending people and making things up, and some people may see that as a negative. That's why I posted the link, so people can decide for themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #45 November 17, 2002 >If so you have acces to my candidates statement even if it was > edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance > Manual, but that's a whole 'nuther topic. In what ways was it edited? Did they change one of your all-caps paragraphs to properly capitalized text, or did they change the meaning of what you wrote? >I don't "want" to be on the Board. You should make that clearer in your candidate's statement. It's a rather important detail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #46 November 17, 2002 Don -- I'll admit you've got some right thinking when it comes to the GM program and USPA VCIPs. That said, no matter how intelligent you may be, no matter how good your ideas are, no matter if you claim to represent the little guy or not, no matter how selfless you'll work -- nobody gets voted into office if they are perceived by the -majority- of the people as a trouble-maker and malcontent. I don't think you're going to get a seat this year because of your past and if you truly want to make a difference, then you need to start building some bridges so that you can get a seat in the future. Otherwise, you're just going to be seen as a crazed ol' looney skydiver. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I just don't want that guy working for me. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites indyz 1 #47 November 17, 2002 Don, Since you seemed to have missed my last post, I'll ask again: - Can we see an unedited copy of your candidates statement, which you claim was, "edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance Manual" ? - What specific changes would you make to the GM program? - How do you plan on convincing the FAA to lengthen the repack cycle? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudseeder 0 #48 November 17, 2002 QuoteDon, Since you seemed to have missed my last post, __________________________________________________ Sorry about that. in the future please send any questions or concerns to [email protected]. also you can reach me at (706) 273-8466 days or (706) 635-6603 evening before 9:00 Pm. ___________________________________________________I'll ask again: - Can we see an unedited copy of your candidates statement, which you claim was, "edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance Manual" ? ___________________________________________________ Yes you can see the unedited edition! I have no doubt that after this weekends Executive Comittee meeting my "original" statement will be available for all to peruse on Our website. - What specific changes would you make to the GM program? See my reply to Tom Buchanan. - How do you plan on convincing the FAA to lengthen the repack cycle? Now that is a great question. Obviously We need to supply the FAA with Data! The more the better! Did you realize Brian, that Mike Mullins has volunteered the lift aircraft to collect the data? Did you realize that Jessie Farington has volunteered the rigs for the experiments? We should take advantage of these voluntary resources and collect the data! Now some like Mr. Buchanan have legitimate concerns about the 180 day re-pack cycle. Mr Buchanans' main concern seems to center around external inspections of the rig between the120 day and the 180 day interval. I propose that We develop a standard procedure for an external inspection and require as an A Licence requirement that the student jumper demonstrate the skills to perform an external inspection of his/ her gear . I believe that if the FAA is provided data showing that reserves open just as well whether they are packed for 180 or 120 days, and they are also provided an assurance that all licensed skydivers understand how to perform an external inspection of their rig, They would be hard pressed not to comply with Our request for a 180 day repack cycle. If after providing all this info some FAA type doesn't want to play ball, I have an Ace up my sleeve. "Treetop' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudseeder 0 #49 November 17, 2002 Quote Hey, Cloudseeder... Nope, that was not HH's longest post, so no beer for you! Here's my issue with you as a candidate, in simple straight language. I don't trust you. __________________________________________________ Well don't vote for me than Michelle LOL! That's not so hard to figure out is it? Did you really believe that we should hold a discussion group meeting to figure that one out? If you don't Trust me just don't vote for me , It should be pretty simple! Even for chicks.LOFL! Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings Michelle, for you and yours, "Treetop" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #50 November 17, 2002 >we need to compel anybody working with students or running a >student program to comply with a national standard. Do you have any evidence that a lack of such enforcement has resulted in a greater number of injuries or deaths? If not, what, in real terms, will such a program accomplish? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 2 of 13 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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bodypilot90 0 #40 November 17, 2002 come on Sangiro, you and I know what he means. I didn't want the job but was going to run (before my father got sick) because the fun jumpers need someone to stick up for them. The good old boys don't. I like nebies, they are fun and it pisses me off when I see the dz's try to extract the max money out of them. Not all do, I don't see every dzo as a evil ^%$#. I did notice that when i went to chicagoland skydiving that the "paid" coach jumps were already add to the price of the aff cost. I never once paid for a coach jump, i return the favor when ever i can. Not the uspa wants to stop that. Follow the money I tell ya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudseeder 0 #41 November 17, 2002 Any time. While I was in your office I found that big can of BS you keep under your desk that you've been feeding people on rec.skydiving for as long as I can remember. It seems like you're trying to give us some of that over here as well. If you don't want the job (as you've now said many times), don't post, keep quiet, keep a low profile, nobody will know about you, nobody will vote for you, you won't be elected, you won't get the job, we'll all be better off and you'll be happier because you won't be doing something you really don't want to do. Either that or at least stand up and say, yes, I actually can and want to make a difference. Here's how I'm going to do it. Vote for me. You're either not being truthful and insulting our intelligence with a weak attempt at reverse psychology, or you're someone who really doesn't want to be on the board and therefor doesn't deserve to be elected. Which one is it? __________________________________________________ I wonder if that is the longest reply Sangrio has ever posted? Beer?Hey Honcho, would you be more inclined to vote for someone who wants a position on the BOD? Some one who would, lie, cheat,steal and sell their Momma to get there? Look, as I've I previously stated I am willing to *volunteer* to represent the Fun Jumpers by serving on the BOD. If I am elected I will give my all to fight for the Fun Jumpers best interests. There is no hidden agenda. I'm not a profiteer. Serving on the BOD will take up a large part of my fun time. I couldn't care less whether or not I'm elected. If you think I'll do a good job of representing theFun Jumpers, check the ballot. If you think that eight others will do a better job elect them. Either way it's no skin off my nose. I'm "Treetop" and I'll be skydiving regardless! It's just that simple! "Treetop" , the Fun Jumpers Candidate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #42 November 17, 2002 Quote This is the beauty of my plan Mr. Buchanan. The DZs will be srambling to one up each other. They'll be dying to be inspected and we'll finally have some meaningful criteria to evaluate them by! It could happen some day, but not soon. The DZO's are in no rush to have inspections now. They each want to advertise that they are the best, but not have the obligation of actually measuring up to any standard. We need standards, and we need to compel anybody working with students or running a student program to comply with a national standard. You and I disagree about this, but I sure appreciate your posting here, now. It's an interesting debate. I think we may get to the world you dream about, but it is a long way off, and we can't risk loosing the group member program in the mean time. Honestly, I spoke with state regulators over the summer in many, many states, and all stay away from us because they perceive the group affiliation program means DZ's are conforming to a national standard. Loose that and we'll have a hodge-podge of state regulators moving on us from all directions. Not all at once, but over time. I don't think USPA can track fifty hostile targets at once, and worry about the FAA. Oh and hey, it isn't just the state aviation regulations we need to worry about. There are consumer interest groups too. Ughhhh. The damage they could do.Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #43 November 17, 2002 Hey, Cloudseeder... Nope, that was not HH's longest post, so no beer for you! Here's my issue with you as a candidate, in simple straight language. I don't trust you. I have seen the stuff you post over on wreckdot. I have done a search here and seen what you have posted. I have no other experience of you other than being antagonistic, rude, and more than a little arrogant. I have seen a bit of a change here because it's a "vote for me" thread, but you're still argumentative and confrontive, and have managed to not answer the questions but instead accuse people, and point fingers. You have given the beginnings of answers, but you get sidetracked into something very close to a pissing match, and don't tell me specifically what you will do to implement your ideas...and some of them are interesting. I would like to hear more of them...but you haven't taken the time to lay it out. I am a fun jumper. I do not forsee a time wherein I will do more than 6-8 jumps a month, and never expect to garner an income from this sport. You want to represent "fun jumpers", thus you will be the "odd guy out". How do you think you'll be able to do something beneficial for me, with my dues $$ (which represents lost jump tickets to me...), when all you do is antagonize and alienate people? Lastly, I have great hesitation in your "I don't want to" position. If you don't want to, you won't, and all this is all about is your ego and status. If you do want to (which I think is the truth), saying you don't want to makes me say "o.k., I want my vote to count, so I'll vote for someone else". If you can clarify your position, as in "I want to represent fun jumpers, but don't look forward to dealing with the bureaucracy and good ol' boy network", that's understandable...but your "I don't want to" position is a very good reason to NOT vote for you. BTW, AggieDave is an intelligent guy, although young and hotheaded. In his attempt to show respect, he called you "sir". And in typical Treetop style, you smacked him down...simply because he showed you respect. I find that inherently symbolic of your attitude and public persona. It's all well and good to be one thing privately and another in public, but since public behavior is all I can see of you, sir, that is what I will be making my judgment on. Hope you have a ball jumping this weekend.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #44 November 17, 2002 >What? and My disclaimer is somehow a bad thing? Depends on who you want on the board. You say in that post that you enjoy offending people and making things up, and some people may see that as a negative. That's why I posted the link, so people can decide for themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #45 November 17, 2002 >If so you have acces to my candidates statement even if it was > edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance > Manual, but that's a whole 'nuther topic. In what ways was it edited? Did they change one of your all-caps paragraphs to properly capitalized text, or did they change the meaning of what you wrote? >I don't "want" to be on the Board. You should make that clearer in your candidate's statement. It's a rather important detail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #46 November 17, 2002 Don -- I'll admit you've got some right thinking when it comes to the GM program and USPA VCIPs. That said, no matter how intelligent you may be, no matter how good your ideas are, no matter if you claim to represent the little guy or not, no matter how selfless you'll work -- nobody gets voted into office if they are perceived by the -majority- of the people as a trouble-maker and malcontent. I don't think you're going to get a seat this year because of your past and if you truly want to make a difference, then you need to start building some bridges so that you can get a seat in the future. Otherwise, you're just going to be seen as a crazed ol' looney skydiver. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I just don't want that guy working for me. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #47 November 17, 2002 Don, Since you seemed to have missed my last post, I'll ask again: - Can we see an unedited copy of your candidates statement, which you claim was, "edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance Manual" ? - What specific changes would you make to the GM program? - How do you plan on convincing the FAA to lengthen the repack cycle? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudseeder 0 #48 November 17, 2002 QuoteDon, Since you seemed to have missed my last post, __________________________________________________ Sorry about that. in the future please send any questions or concerns to [email protected]. also you can reach me at (706) 273-8466 days or (706) 635-6603 evening before 9:00 Pm. ___________________________________________________I'll ask again: - Can we see an unedited copy of your candidates statement, which you claim was, "edited at least 27 times against the rules of Our Governance Manual" ? ___________________________________________________ Yes you can see the unedited edition! I have no doubt that after this weekends Executive Comittee meeting my "original" statement will be available for all to peruse on Our website. - What specific changes would you make to the GM program? See my reply to Tom Buchanan. - How do you plan on convincing the FAA to lengthen the repack cycle? Now that is a great question. Obviously We need to supply the FAA with Data! The more the better! Did you realize Brian, that Mike Mullins has volunteered the lift aircraft to collect the data? Did you realize that Jessie Farington has volunteered the rigs for the experiments? We should take advantage of these voluntary resources and collect the data! Now some like Mr. Buchanan have legitimate concerns about the 180 day re-pack cycle. Mr Buchanans' main concern seems to center around external inspections of the rig between the120 day and the 180 day interval. I propose that We develop a standard procedure for an external inspection and require as an A Licence requirement that the student jumper demonstrate the skills to perform an external inspection of his/ her gear . I believe that if the FAA is provided data showing that reserves open just as well whether they are packed for 180 or 120 days, and they are also provided an assurance that all licensed skydivers understand how to perform an external inspection of their rig, They would be hard pressed not to comply with Our request for a 180 day repack cycle. If after providing all this info some FAA type doesn't want to play ball, I have an Ace up my sleeve. "Treetop' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudseeder 0 #49 November 17, 2002 Quote Hey, Cloudseeder... Nope, that was not HH's longest post, so no beer for you! Here's my issue with you as a candidate, in simple straight language. I don't trust you. __________________________________________________ Well don't vote for me than Michelle LOL! That's not so hard to figure out is it? Did you really believe that we should hold a discussion group meeting to figure that one out? If you don't Trust me just don't vote for me , It should be pretty simple! Even for chicks.LOFL! Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings Michelle, for you and yours, "Treetop" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #50 November 17, 2002 >we need to compel anybody working with students or running a >student program to comply with a national standard. Do you have any evidence that a lack of such enforcement has resulted in a greater number of injuries or deaths? If not, what, in real terms, will such a program accomplish? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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