Unutsch 0 #1 December 10, 2002 i was just reading the post "the cuttest newbie ever" and it's replies and it made me wonder: how old - young must one be, to start skydiving legally in USA? those replies really confused me here in Slovenia, everyone that makes the medical exam can start jumping by the age of 16, but his/her parrents must sign for him (mine did, LOVE 'EM!!!) Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casch 0 #2 December 10, 2002 It all depends on the DZ. I'm not sure if there are states that specifically state that you have to be 18, but most say you have to be at least 16 and have a parent signiture if your a minor. I started when I was 17 in august (just turned 18 on dec 7th WHOOOHOOO!) Anyway the absolute minimum age nowadays in the U.S. is 16 with parental signiture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #3 December 10, 2002 "Anyway the absolute minimum age nowadays in the U.S. is 16 with parental signiture" Ummm, I have a problem with the term 'legal', I recall a very young Mullins kid jumping at a USPA DZ in 94, when he was something like 12......And he had heaps of jumps, as you can expect when his dad owns such a bad ass jumpship. So what is the story there then?-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 December 10, 2002 Technically there is not a "legal" age, there is a required age according to the USPA. Mullins operates his own DZ, which is not apart of the USPA, so he does what he pleases, as long as it doesn't violate the FARS, which it doesn't. This is one of the reasons why the WFFC was not a USPA GM DZ this year.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #5 December 10, 2002 Does the minimum age only apply to parachute training then, because I definitely saw Charlie having way too much fun for a 12 yo, at a USPA dz......Name witheld, cos it was a cool place that treated us well...But like I said, it was a while ago.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 December 10, 2002 From my understanding, no it would apply across the board, but DZOs & S&TAs tend to look away sometimes.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #7 December 10, 2002 Quote "Anyway the absolute minimum age nowadays in the U.S. is 16 with parental signiture" Ummm, I have a problem with the term 'legal', I recall a very young Mullins kid jumping at a USPA DZ in 94, when he was something like 12......And he had heaps of jumps, as you can expect when his dad owns such a bad ass jumpship. So what is the story there then? aha, i remember how i felt the first time i heard about that: i was SOOOOOOOOOOO gelous of this kid!!!! but then i grew older (not much, only 5 years) and said to myself: what a wonderfull day, and left all behind!b Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #8 December 10, 2002 The FAA does not have an age limit... The USPA does, its 16 with parental consent, 18 without. As long as the DZO is not a group member, and he does not mind taking the extra risk that could go with a child accident. You can jump. Charlie had 80 tandems with Mike at age 8-9. He did his 500th at 11. Ron Mike owns the plane, and the DZ."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #9 December 10, 2002 And the real limit has been hinted at. It's ability to sign a legally binding wavier of liability. Most states it's 18 for the individual and parents can't sign away the rights of the minor to litigate so.... the defacto age becomes the age when the student can enter into a legal contract, usually 18. Most DZ's I know now use 18 for the "public".I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #10 December 10, 2002 I worked at a DZ for years and this is the way the DZO explained it to me. USPA has guildlines, not rules. So it's up to each DZO as to what age they will allow someone to jump. I'm not sure, but it's there some kind of guildlines that some of the Tandem manufactures have? If those guildlines are "bent" I believe the Tandem JM can loose their license. Here's the tricky part. A waiver can be signed by a guardian. The guardian that signs the waiver is giving up their right to sue if something were to happen to the minor. Also from what I understand, the minor also can't sue. But, if there are grandparents, uncles, aunts, sisters, brothers, etc out there that haven't signed the waiver, they can sue. So, alot of it depends on the DZO. I'm sure there is a lawyer out there that can answer this question better. Just because a waiver is signed doesn't mean that you can't try to sue. I've seen it happen, and I've seen the jumper win.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #11 December 10, 2002 thanks guys, you made something clear for me: it ain't so clear! Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamsville 0 #12 December 10, 2002 If it's your own dropzone and your family isn't going to have an internal lawsuit, who cares anyway? It's mostly a legal issue in those special cases, same as Rook Nelson and his dad Roger. Let 'im jump if he's able and there's a special opportunity like this. HarryI don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane. Harry, FB #4143 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyD 0 #13 December 10, 2002 Quote thanks guys, you made something clear for me: it ain't so clear! Simply said, it is generally dictated by the state in which the dz is operating. In California, no one can legally sign away the rights of a minor, so the waiver will not protect the dz no matter who signs the waiver if the student is under 18. In some states, I think a parent can sign if the child is between 16 and 18 (I may be wrong about that though). In the case of Charlie Mullins, his dad owns the plane and the dz. In the event of an accident, it would be very unlikely that he would sue himself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #14 December 11, 2002 thx man! Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quatorze 1 #15 December 11, 2002 QuoteCharlie had 80 tandems with Mike at age 8-9. He did his 500th at 11. I have seen some video of the littleist Mullins, that kid can fly. Where would we all be at if we had been able to start when we were that age? I think that there is something to be said for a preteen, who has his head together enough to skydive safely. I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #16 December 11, 2002 "Where would we all be at if we had been able to start when we were that age?" In the Bankruptcy courts???Seriously, where would the sport be? I think Charlie, Rook, Missy etc are great examples of what can be achieved if you start them young....Look at other sports that have high risk factors...say downhill skiing for example. There's no age limits that I'm aware of on the slopes....I 'm not advocating carte blanche that we allow kids to skydive, but I wonder what developments we would see if it were allowed? -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #17 December 11, 2002 Here in Hungary the legal age to start jumping is "have to be in the 16th year" meaning 15 years and 1 day olds can jump. OVER Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #18 December 12, 2002 QuoteTandem manufactures have? If those guildlines are "bent" I believe the Tandem JM can loose their license. With tandems now being a part of normal skydiving the manufactures have no control. If you get your rating from the uspa then you'd be ok. Why it's 16 for everything but tandems and 18 for tandems is strange. Why the age thing is in a BSR is also strange. This is one reason we need to rid ourselves of the group member program and the "good old boys" on the bod. Vote for the fun jumpers candidates "Don, Mike, Jan, Winsor" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasmin 0 #19 December 12, 2002 Quote If it's your own dropzone and your family isn't going to have an internal lawsuit, who cares anyway? It's mostly a legal issue in those special cases, same as Rook Nelson and his dad Roger. Let 'im jump if he's able and there's a special opportunity like this. Harry A year ago I wrote a editorial letter in Skydiving about this. There was an attempt to raise the legal USPA limit from 16 with consent to 18. A parent cannot waive their kids right to sue, only their position to sue on behalf of the kid. Theres been a few precedents along these lines. I did my first tandem on my 14th b'day and my first AFF on my 16th. So did my gf and we're both still in the sport 6 years on. My brother and two of his friends did theirs on their 14th and 16th b'days. All 3 are still jumping, mostly incident free...My youngest brother did his first jump at 10 yrs 11 months in NZ and he will have to wait until his 14th b'day to do his next jump!?! Age is an EXTREMELY poor indicator of anything, girls mature faster than boys, age is not a determinant of experience.... Y'anyways that's my bit*h on age restrictions. Oh one more thing. I've been told that young adolescent ears stand a risk of being damaged (pressure/equalising). No idea if its true or not.xj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quatorze 1 #20 December 12, 2002 QuoteI've been told that young adolescent ears stand a risk of being damaged (pressure/equalising). No idea if its true or not. I have to think that someone is pulling your leg, if that is the case then young people should not be allowed on any type of aircraft, In my life the worst form of pressuization pain came from commercial airliners, and I was in my twenties. I think that it would have more to do with the legal ramifications and the fact that society today, as a whole, do not think that 11-15 year olds can handle the resposiblity of saving there own lives, but how long ago was it that these same age people were going off to fight their countries wars? edit: cuz, you never really see just how bad your grammar is until someone quotes you I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #21 December 12, 2002 Quote *** I think that it would have more to do with the legal ramifications and the fact that society today, as a whole, do not think that 11-15 year olds can handle the resposiblity of saving there own lives, but how long ago was it that these same age people were going off to fight there countries wars? yeah man, that's sad but true... and not long ago, minors had to work from as early as 6 years of age to support their famillies, not only in less developed countries, but also in Europe and the States... and this is still happening, and the way i see it, it will continue to happen as long as our motherfucking (i really hate them for that) leaders will rather spend the tax payer's money on armor and other military shit, as on helping people that need help. Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #22 December 12, 2002 Way of topic... but 11-15 years old 'nowadays' (I sound like an old fart) are doing way more then I was doing at that age. There was a (dutch) research recently on youngsters and sex. While I was a late bloomer at 21 years, these kids are doing things at 13 YEARS!!! that I wouldn't even dare to think of even now......I was still playing with my damn lego at that age (ooh...wait...I still do sometimes). Instead of building a treehouse or catching frogs, playing hide and seek or other stuff I used to do, a lot of young kids between 13 to 16 years old just 'get to together and fuck' as one of the interviewed kids sayd in a newspaper article.. They paper did a couple of interviews (next to the official reseach, done by interviewing a couple of hundred kids) and when asked what they did, a 14 year old boy just responded casualy "you know...playing with each other, a blow job...eating pussy" like he was ordering a happy meal at McD!? Is it just me that's a bit startled by all this... Also has me wondering if these kids (at later age) can see sex as an emotional connection between two people..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #23 December 12, 2002 QuoteWay of topic... Also has me wondering if these kids (at later age) can see sex as an emotional connection between two people.. yes, we're WAY Of, but somehow we're not so much... about the sex and love thing for those kids, you actually have a point there Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
