diverdriver 5 #26 November 19, 2002 Buzz, Thank you for your time. Question: Do you feel that the current state of aircraft operations in the US has a safety record that is acceptable? Meaning, should the USPA be doing something to ensure proper training and certification of jump pilots and aircraft. The current rate of jump plane accidents is twice the accident rate of general aviation. Is this issue high, middle, or low on your list of issues?Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #27 November 19, 2002 <<>> I do not know what the safety record is for skydiving aircraft. <<>> As for pilots ratings, no. That is the FAA's job. As far as educating pilots by providing video and recommended training plans, Yes. USPA cannot afford to take on the oversight responsibilities of pilots. They can assist and provide guidance. <<>> I would definitely like to see the supporting information. The simple fact that accident rate for skydiving aircraft is higher than GA does not mean alot without detailed analysis. For example, one could say the accident rate at a large DZ might be triple that of a small DZ. Does that mean the large DZ's are less safe than the small ones? Or might it be that the large DZ does 20 times as many jumps as the small DZ and as such has a lower number of accidents as compared to the number of jumps. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blowing this off. I just would need to see more info. It is definitely worth pursuing. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #28 November 20, 2002 Buzz, is your dz a group member? If I came to your dropzone to do crw I am reqired to have a aad? How do you feel about a group member dz that will not allow a current uspa member jump at his/her dropzone? If a dropzone costs the uspa a lot of legal expenses by trying to get the state to mandate aad's would you support charging that dz the cost before aloowing them back into the group member program? Would you support closing the group member program? How do you feel about the uspa spending money on land that has doubled in cost in 6 months? At a time when the uspa is in the red? thanks Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #29 November 20, 2002 Here's a question I'm surprised hasn't come up yet. How do you feel about OUR SIM not being available in it's entirety on line? It has been in previous years, why the change now? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #30 November 20, 2002 <<>> Yes we are. And yes you would be required to have an AAD. <<>> That is their GM dropzone and they should be able to run it as they please, whether I or USPA agrees or not as long as they follow the BSR's. Your example is one of a business decision. Right or wrong, it's their business. With that said, people can judge a DZ on how they run it, who they allow or who they disallow. They can choose to patronize them or not. Nothing in the GM program or in USPA at all says a DZ must allow someone or a type of jumper to jump. I do not want USPA saying that. <<>> That's tough in that ones gut reaction is to say yes. But what would that do? It would be like saying "If you don't agree with USPA's way of doing things, and you speak up contrary to their position, you will be kicked out". While I don't like that that amount of money was spent that way, it's the nature of the beast. Unfortunately, it's part of the business side of USPA. <<<>>> I have mixed feelings on this. I do support changing the Group Member Pledge from "Require USPA membership" to Encourage USPA membership". Beyond that, what will it gain to through the program out? Will that make it so some DZO's will not get on the Board and push their own agenda? No. (I know, I'm a DZO) <<<>>> I always favored locating USPA away from the expensive DC area. They could have an office in DC where Ed Scott could run the lobbying program. If needed, Chris Needels could fly back there too. But thats a moot point. The BoD decided DC was where they wanted to be. And they have taken action to make this happen. I do not think they did this for personal gain or anything like that. They feel it is best. If I get on the Board and am given an option to get our money back and relocate elsewhere, I will vote for it. Thanks. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #31 November 20, 2002 <<>> I wholeheartedly agree the SIM should be freely available in multiple formats. It's part of our primary purpose-to educate. I go one step further that the IRM should also be available free on line. Unfortunately, Chris Needels and Kevin Gibson choose to make it a profit center to try to increase revenue. They justify it as trying to offset the costs of compiling it. They should both be freely available. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #32 November 20, 2002 Quote<<>> Yes we are. And yes you would be required to have an AAD. So you would endanger my life for your rule? how do you crw dogs out there feel about jumping with a aad? Wendy, Mike? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #33 November 20, 2002 Just turn it off... pretty simple. An Astra you could even flick off as soon as you exit if some one is standing there inspecting the status of the AAD when you leave. I've done CRW with my AAD and will end up doing it again... I usually turn it off but its been on a few times too.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #34 November 20, 2002 <<<>> Yes we are. And yes you would be required to have an AAD. <<>> The Navy Parachute Team has done extensive testing with the Cypres during CRW. They took them in a bag and did down planes, drag planes and other maneuvers. They had no problems. They use them. If you choose not to, good for you. I'm not stopping you from going to Perris or Elsinore to do it. But please don't give me this "endangering my life" stuff. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #35 November 20, 2002 A consistent complaint I hear from jumpers and board members alike is that the executive committee frequently acts in secret, refuses to disclose pertinent information, and is commonly referred to a "good ole' boys club". Do you believe there is adequate transparency to the workings of the executive committee? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #36 November 20, 2002 <<Do you believe there is adequate transparency to the workings of the executive committee?>>> I believe the Executive Committee was needed 15-20 years ago but now is not needed. With the advent internet and e-mail communications (thanks Al Gore) things have changed. It should be the responsibility of the President of the Organization to coordinate items between meetings, e-mailing them to the Full Board for input and voting. Thanks for the question. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #37 November 20, 2002 Buzz... I just made my way through this thread...and I gotta say, THANK YOU. While you and I may not agree on certain things, you're answering honestly and from your opinions without insulting anyone. You acknowledge when things need more study, if you don't have the info, and so on. This is a clear and appreciated change from other threads...this is how to do it! But I bet your fingers are tired! LOL! We're an inquisitive bunch... I don't know who I'm voting for, but this is helping me understand the issues surrounding the election, and affords me the opportunity to explore and consider those issues more thoroughly. Rawk on, and again, sincere thanks! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #38 November 20, 2002 <<>> I'm new to dropzone.com but very much appreciate the intelligent discussions that are found here without someone going off the deep end calling me the Anti-Christ for setting rules at my DZ. As you say we can agree to disagree but we can have a civil discussion about the topic. Thanks again. Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chriswelker 0 #39 November 20, 2002 What do you think should happen to the Group Membership program? Blue Ones, Chris Welker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #40 November 20, 2002 Chris, could you state your views on the GM program also? You are running for National Director too so others here may want to hear what you have to say. Chris Buzz.....you have my vote. Contact Ed Scott if you need more information about my last PM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #41 November 20, 2002 <<>>> The GM Pledge that requires jumpers at GM dropzones should be changed to "encourage" membership, not require it. Then, a detailed review of the Group Member program should be undertaken. Membership input will be crucial. The biggest complaint about the GM program was the mandatory membership requirement. Once that is taken care of, I think the program may continue unless something else is brought up that needs correcting. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #42 November 20, 2002 <<>> Thanks and I will. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chriswelker 0 #43 November 20, 2002 I think the Group Membership program should be eliminated. If you look at the #'s the GM program can not support itself. It costs between $100 and $400 to become a GM DZ. I counted 220 GM DZ's from the USPA website and 36 foreign DZ's which only pay $100. Do the math 220x400=$88,000+$3600=$91,600.As regular members we will be paying $49 each and $49x30,000(regular USPA members)=$1,470,000. Some of the GM DZ's say that their dues are too high.For roughly $33 a month if you are a GM DZ you get your DZ listed in Parachutists and on the USPA website. That is very inexpensive advertising if you ask me. By the way as our dues went up the GM's stayed the same. The regular members of the USPA pay 1.5 million and the GM's pay in $92K and they run the show. Decide for youself if you think this is fair. I don't. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Blue Ones, Chris Welker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #44 November 20, 2002 <<<>>>> Just to play devils advocate, since things are never as simple as they seem, let's say the GM program is done away with. Will we save money on Ed Scott's salary? NO! We need Ed Scott to continue the lobbying efforts and the interaction with the FAA. Don't get me wrong. I have not fallen on one side or the other on the GM program elimination (except to encourage membership rather than require). I just want to know the ramifications. If it ends up costing the members much more, we need to know that and decide if that is appropriate. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #45 November 20, 2002 ***The Navy Parachute Team has done extensive testing with the Cypres during CRW. They took them in a bag and did down planes, drag planes and other maneuvers. They had no problems. They use them. If you choose not to, good for you. I'm not stopping you from going to Perris or Elsinore to do it. *** please share with me all your wisdom about crw and aad's. How will it save me in a wrap? I'm willing to learn if you have something to share and might even get my vote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #46 November 20, 2002 Quote please share with me all your wisdom about crw and aad's. How will it save me in a wrap? I'm willing to learn if you have something to share and might even get my vote Personally I have no wisdom about CRW or AADs, but I dunno whats so hard to understand about this. If you have a problem using an AAD when you do CRW, do it elsewhere. Anyway, isn't it POSSIBLE that during an entaglement you might not be able to reach your reserve handle but your back is still clear, so the cypres might save your life? If you're falling faster than 78 mph (or whatever it is) at under 700 feet, is an AAD firing really gonna do any harm? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #47 November 20, 2002 QuoteIf you're falling faster than 78 mph (or whatever it is) at under 700 feet, is an AAD firing really gonna do any harm? If you're falling slower than 78 mph, above 2000 feet, is an AAD misfire really gonna do any harm? In freefall, an AAD misfire *could* be fatal, but the big sky theory suggests it probably wouldn't be. In CRW, an AAD misfire that sends your reserve through someone else's lines has an extremely good chance of being fatal. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #48 November 20, 2002 QuoteQuote Anyway, isn't it POSSIBLE that during an entaglement you might not be able to reach your reserve handle but your back is still clear, so the cypres might save your life? If you're falling faster than 78 mph (or whatever it is) at under 700 feet, is an AAD firing really gonna do any harm? Dave Conceivable but EXTREMELY unlikely. If you can't move your arms almost certainly you're going to be wrapped all over. WAY more likely is that one of the radios we often use causes an accidental misfire - student radios have - quite possibly ours could too. Cypreses have also misfired for no apparent reason - when people weren't going 78 mph nor were low. That is practically guaranteed to be fatal if you're in a CRW formation. In all honesty, I'm not particularly worried about a Cypres if it never misfired - but a misfire would kill me. CRWdogs don't typically die because we have too little out or we're going freefall speeds. We die because we're crashing in with 5 trashed canopies wrapped around us. A Cypres won't help in that situation. An AAD in CRW has a MUCH greater potential to misfire and cause harm than to ever help. We just don't normally die from having nothing out. We have too much out. I won't do CRW when I'm wearing an active Cypres. It won't hurt me and it could kill me. Its not worth the risk. And I'm not about to ever jump somewhere where they require to place me in greater danger than need be. W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bodypilot90 0 #49 November 21, 2002 thanks all who helped explain it better than I could. Thanks Buzz for taking the time do do some research. This alone shows that even if you disagree at least you will listen and do the homework. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites buzzfink 5 #50 December 20, 2002 Only a few more days left to vote. Regardless of who you choose to vote for, don't let the hussle and bussle of the holiday cause you to forget to vote. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
bodypilot90 0 #49 November 21, 2002 thanks all who helped explain it better than I could. Thanks Buzz for taking the time do do some research. This alone shows that even if you disagree at least you will listen and do the homework. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buzzfink 5 #50 December 20, 2002 Only a few more days left to vote. Regardless of who you choose to vote for, don't let the hussle and bussle of the holiday cause you to forget to vote. Blue Skies! Alan "Buzz" Fink Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
