Viking 0 #26 August 17, 2002 holyhell i just tryed that on my floor and all i am going to say I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #27 August 17, 2002 Look at photos of ski long jumpers. They use nearly identical body position. Since we aren't burdoned w/ 2 sticks on our feet, skydivers point their toes. 1:1 is certainly possible as long jumpers on 120m(360ft) high jumps have been reported to cover 140m(460ft) in horizontal distance. They wear tight body suits w/ no drag, like grippers, made out of lycra (I think). Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #28 August 17, 2002 QuoteLook at photos of ski long jumpers. They use nearly identical body position. Since we aren't burdoned w/ 2 sticks on our feet, skydivers point their toes. Most of the monster BASE tracks being done now use a different toe position. You point your toes out (to either side) rather than down. This ("charlie chaplin" or "penguin") tracking position appears to be giving better glide ratios than pointing the toes straight back. It was developed by Swedish jumpers (the Scandinavians are the worlds foremost big wall trackers for obvious geological reasons) after observation of ski jumpers.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #29 August 19, 2002 Tom, Would you care to speculate why pointing toes out instead of back gives a better glide ratio?I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #30 August 19, 2002 QuoteTom, Would you care to speculate why pointing toes out instead of back gives a better glide ratio? My first guess is surface area. I think that you probably get more surface area on your feet by turning them out. I think it also effects your leg position somewhat, possibly increasing "effective" surface area (perhaps a small gap between your legs is actually an effective increase in surface area, because air can't flow between the narrow gap). This is all very speculative, though, as I am a horrible tracker. If you really want a serious discussion about it, I'd recommend posting to BLiNC, or just finding a Norge BASE jumper and asking them.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #31 August 22, 2002 Do you have this data downloaded into JumpTrack? With the graph detail? Could you send me the database so I can put it on www.speedskydiving.org for everyone to view? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #32 May 26, 2003 QuoteWell give it up!! What is the secret God bless us and God Bless America Albatross Get your ass up, your shoulders cupped, your chin on your chest, point your toes, and push down with your hands and arms. Like Hook said, if you don't hurt after just a 3000 ft. track, you are doing it right. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #33 May 27, 2003 I have been learning a lot about basic tracking using skr as a coach. Some things I learned about the basics: First, it helps to have a coach. If your coach falls straight down, you can track away and see how far you get. I start by tracking away at 6,000. At 4,500, I turn and look at my coach to see how far I got. Now, if done properly, I will end up above my coach, because he is still falling at 110-120 straight down, and I have effectively exchanged some downward component for forward movement (i.e. 80 MPH down, 80 MPH forward, or something like that). Because I've got a slower downward component than my coach, I end up above him/her (and pretty far out). Another lesson I learned is that I was trying to do too much with body position. I have no doubt that Hook can angle his body perfectly for a max track, but remember that he has a few thousand jumps. I only have 150. By going back to the basics, I was able to get further. Before, I was trying to get flat, move my arms all the way in, dearch, shrug, point toes, convex chest, etc. srk encouraged me to just get into a wide delta and get flat, and I got a lot further just doing that. I expect to continue this for the next few dozen jumps to get practiced, then add one element to go further, and practice that for a few dozen jumps, then add another element for a few dozen jumps, etc, etc. I don't think anyone can reasonably expect to get it all at once. Finally, the way that tracking is taught is a generic method that does not cater to specific body types. I have a lanky body, and video showed that I was bowed (I call it "banana-tracking") for most of my track, which caused porpoising and didn't help me get very far. A good coach can show you the best way to track for your body type, jumpsuit, et al.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #34 May 27, 2003 No figures or stats, but last week I did a track where I bent a little more forward right at the hips and suddenly felt like I'd been shot out of a cannon. It was so cool I let out a yell. I wasn't wearing booties or anything, just a very scruffy old jumpsuit. Back on the ground I got some very positive comments on my track. When you get it just right, it feels a lot like catching an ocean wave, like bodysurfing. It's huge fun! Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #35 May 27, 2003 Just be careful when you are flat tracking. This weekend I was in the base on an 18 way and we were breaking in 2 waves. 1st wave 5k, 2nd wave (me) 4k. I turn track everything looks good....holy shit where did these people come from? I ended up tracking past the 1st wave and went a bit low to avoid their traffic. It was no big deal, but being rarely in the base I had forgotten to not out track the 1st wave.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #36 May 27, 2003 I feel that I can track better on my back. Is there any records/data/evidence that back tracking can yield better results? At this point it is probably just easier for me to attain a wing shape on my back....FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #37 May 28, 2003 Is your profile up-to-date? If it is, I'm very sorry, but at 59 jumps you havent had enough jumps to perfect your track.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #38 May 28, 2003 Derek, I read your article on tracking, and have been trying to incorporate this into improving my track. I tried pushing down slightly with my hands and feet as Skycat mentioned in a previous post. This seemed like it produced a much flatter track. I then relaxed this position, and my track seemed a lot steeper. So anyhow your advice works. I'll keep experimenting and thanks for all the great info......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #39 May 28, 2003 I didn't say I had, I was merely asking if tracking on your back can give more lift, or have the potential for greater tracking....FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #40 September 19, 2003 Just catching up on old threads after being away for a while. >If your coach falls straight down, you can track away and see how far you get. That also helps to see the breakup as a maneuver in its own right instead of a frantic after thought at the end of the jump. Long ago I watched the army demo team wearing smoke and leaving 45 degree trails in the sky so these days people are doing at least that well with just bodies and no special jumpsuits. I put a description of tracking up at http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/rwg_skr_pvpr_track.html skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #41 September 19, 2003 Skratch, Welcome back! Hope the "better half" is treating you well. Good stuff! Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rdesilets 0 #42 September 20, 2003 Quote>Suck up the abs, stay tight, point the toes, lossen your legstraps enough that you can shrug your >shoulders as far up and foward as they will go, wear a factory diver and the smallest rig you can. I would also add - begin to dearch. If you feel like you're beginning to go unstable you're doing it right. One of the best compliments I ever got on tracking was from a whuffo. We were doing some big thing at Perris, and my girlfriend was standing next to a whuffo watching our breakoff. I was in an outer ring and started tracking at 5000 or so. The whuffo noticed me taking off and said to Amy "where's that guy going?" -bill von I have been trying to perfect my flat track now that I am getting more and more big ways (just did Guy Wrights 81-way NE Record). When I am tracking in the position described (which is also the position most of the big way veterans teach) I feel like I am "bouncing around" ever so slightly. Is that what you mean when you talk about 'going slightly unstable'. Its weird as this position is relatively new to me (last 40 or so jumps).. Kind of like I am balancing on top of a basketball and slighly rocking left to right.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #43 September 21, 2003 >When I am tracking in the position described (which is also the position > most of the big way veterans teach) I feel like I am "bouncing around" >ever so slightly. Yeah, sort of a balancing-on-a-big-beachball feeling. You're not really stable in that position, so you have to constantly adjust to remain belly to earth - thus the feeling of balancing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #44 September 22, 2003 Exactly - that was how I was taught by one of the best. Gotta shrug to really get it goin. That's far Derek. Way far - I imagine I need to get some practice in. But being 6'1" 170 helps too -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
