SkydiveNFlorida 0 #1 July 18, 2003 I mean, you're supposed to 'fall' outta the plane, but would a wind knock u back into it? Is this a retarded question? Going for my AFF1 this Saturday in Sebastian. I've been reading the safety articles and such;.. just wondering about collisions whilst exiting the craft, if any do happen. This is probably not a normal question, but, i'm really abnormal. Thx! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #2 July 18, 2003 Depends on the plane... an Otter might be pretty hard to hit, but something like a Twin Bonanza could be fairly easy to hit the tail... If you have concerns, ask the jumpmaster about the particular plane you're jumping out of... they might have some specific advice for what to watch out for... I don't think it's very common, but there have been some cases of people hitting the plane after exiting... Good luck with your AFF! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jjiimmyyt 0 #3 July 18, 2003 No you won't and yes it is. However remember this, before I started jump training (whoo! a massive 3 jumps now) I used to believe there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. Now I believe there are no stupid questions, just dead people. The message I've got from the more experienced people around me is if you are unsure ask! It's better to look like a twat than a flat twat! once more ~~~vibes~~~ ohh! that felt good "This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #4 July 18, 2003 Thanks all! I'll definitely ask them when i'm there. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #5 July 18, 2003 If you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites indyz 1 #6 July 18, 2003 QuoteI mean, you're supposed to 'fall' outta the plane, but would a wind knock u back into it? Is this a retarded question? Not a retarded question. It has happened, as recently as last weekend. Interesting picture here, about 3/4s of the way down the page. But really, tailstrikes, especially fatal tail strikes, are pretty rare. It isn't something that I would loose sleep over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #7 July 18, 2003 QuoteIf you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. What were the results of this incident? Do you have some more info or a link maybe? Thanx. Blue Skies,=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #8 July 18, 2003 I guess I don't understand fully. I was reading the article in the safety section here, which explained an exit as : "Once you are poised outside of the airplane, start your arch before you let go. Then it is a simple matter to open your hands, pivot into the wind, and you're flying! " No 'jump' involved. Which is why I suppose I got this whole question in my head... if you just let go, you end up falling, and not being pushed back? And, now you mention not to "jump up" and I don't understand why one would, when the instructions above state to arch and let go. Help me understand please. Thanks!! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #9 July 18, 2003 Yeah, I know a dude who hit the tail of a T-Bo... he was alright (I think it bruised his shoulder), but it left a dent in the plane ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jib 0 #10 July 18, 2003 The plane is going forward at 80+ knots. So, when you step off, you will continue to move forward (but not as fast as the plane) and be pulled down by gravity. You will fall between the door and the tail of the plane. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #11 July 18, 2003 Well, the reason that there are ussualy no problems is because when you leave the plane you are going as fast as the plane. You "jump" out into the relative wind and start to slow down (forward/horizontal movement), but for the most part by the time your slow enough to be at the tail of the plane you have fallen (Vertical) quite a bit. At least that is my newbie understanding of it. Edit: was typing at the same time as Jib~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #12 July 18, 2003 Ok, so, 'jump' is kinda a relative term, then. Still wondering how one would jump up, tho.. . But, I think I understand the concept of what i'm supposed to do. Thx! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,384 #13 July 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteIf you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. What were the results of this incident? Do you have some more info or a link maybe? Thanx. Blue Skies, I know of a King Air that has seen: 1. Jumper exited in nice poised arch with arms high, leaving two small dents in the horizontal stab with his wrists. No medical attention required. 2. Jumper exited leaving large dent in horizontal stab with the back of his hard helmet. Jump went as planned, but after he landed, he had a bad headache an no memory of making the jump. Went to hospital and was diagnosed with concussion. 3. Lightweight girl hopped up on a poised exit, missing the horizontal stab by about three inches. I witnessed this. In the first two incidents, it was widely agreed that the pilot did not put the a/c in the proper attitude prior to turning on the green light. A King Air needs to have flaps down on jump run, which enables the pilot to pitch the nose down, (and the tail up), while still maintaining altitude. The third incident was a low-time jumper who made a mistake but was lucky. Bear in mind that even though you are traveling the same speed as the a/c, the moment you let go of it, your drag starts decelerating you, and this puts you closer to the tail."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 8 #14 July 18, 2003 Lol now i see why that T-Tail kingair down in flordia is so popular!!!!=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivejersey 0 #15 July 18, 2003 QuoteIf you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. Same is to be said of helicopter Definately do not jump up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyhi 24 #16 July 18, 2003 Had a friend hit the trailing edge of a King Air wing when he was the most forward person (but facing aft) on a four person train launch. The group was pretty much unhampered by skill. I was one of them.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #17 July 18, 2003 we cross" the thresshold INto freefall/ human flight..." Remember your physics class.. A body in motion tend to remain in motion.... as the exit BEGINS.... what you do with your body position, and exit momentum, relative to the propwash,, will affect your " location in the air,,", relative to the fuselage/tail section..... Years ago,,, I remember guys jumping from the cessna,,, with a piece of colored chalk,,,, in an attempt to "get close to the tail",,,, they would push,,,HARD toward the tail,, and make a mark with their chalk,,, as far down the fuselage as they could...as they fell away.... no one got close to to the horiz. stab... most got nowhere near the "N -numbers.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rixterman 0 #18 July 18, 2003 After 14 years in the sport I have seen 3 tail strikes two on a Twin Bo and one on a king air. I was on the plane on two and observing the third through a style camera and all were a result of a hard poised exit. That caused the jumper to gain lift and not fall away from the aircraft as they normally would. I to used to worry about tail strikes (especially doing video rear float on Twin Bo) Hope this helps calm your fears. RixterTREE CLIMBIN, PARAFOIL HOOKIN, SLIDER STOWIN MO FO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #19 July 18, 2003 People have hit the tail before and it is possible. Some aircraft it is more likely on. Different things can cause a tail strike. Jumper technique, Pilot technique, and equipement failure are all reasons for tail strikes. We must always work on each of these to ensure a safe exit. I jumper could climb too far aft on the tail and be in a position to hit it on exit. The pilot could bobble the plane during the exit or forget to configure the plane for jumprun and put the exiting jumper in a position to hit the tail. And thirdly you can have a premature deployment which could put you into the tail. That's why it is so important to protect your handles and pins while moving around in the aircraft and while climbing out into position.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazyfrog 0 #20 July 18, 2003 if you're the last to jump and the pilot dives hard... he might hit you ;-)---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #21 July 18, 2003 Quoteif you're the last to jump and the pilot dives hard... he might hit you ;-) You mean if he rolls his porter over for a cool photo op he might hit you in the suthin' sky?Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lazyfrog 0 #22 July 18, 2003 something like that... seen real close passes between skydivers and porters... but looks real nice on the VDO... :-)---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #23 July 18, 2003 Quotesomething like that... seen real close passes between skydivers and porters... but looks real nice on the VDO... :-) I know of a Porter / jumper collision for real. Jumper got lucky. Pilot got lucky.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #24 July 18, 2003 QuoteOnce you are poised outside of the airplane, start your arch before you let go. Then it is a simple matter to open your hands, pivot into the wind, and you're flying! " No 'jump' involved. Which is why I suppose I got this whole question in my head... if you just let go, you end up falling, and not being pushed back? If you exit in that way. There are numerous ways to exit, that's what's called a poised exit. But if you're jumping with a group you may have 4 or more people crowded in and out the door holding onto each other all trying to exit into the wind in a different position. You'll see when you make your jump. Probably not something you need to worry about, your instructor will show you the proper way to exit for your jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kyros1 0 #25 July 18, 2003 QuoteIf you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. Generally avoid to jump up!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
jjiimmyyt 0 #3 July 18, 2003 No you won't and yes it is. However remember this, before I started jump training (whoo! a massive 3 jumps now) I used to believe there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. Now I believe there are no stupid questions, just dead people. The message I've got from the more experienced people around me is if you are unsure ask! It's better to look like a twat than a flat twat! once more ~~~vibes~~~ ohh! that felt good "This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #4 July 18, 2003 Thanks all! I'll definitely ask them when i'm there. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #5 July 18, 2003 If you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #6 July 18, 2003 QuoteI mean, you're supposed to 'fall' outta the plane, but would a wind knock u back into it? Is this a retarded question? Not a retarded question. It has happened, as recently as last weekend. Interesting picture here, about 3/4s of the way down the page. But really, tailstrikes, especially fatal tail strikes, are pretty rare. It isn't something that I would loose sleep over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #7 July 18, 2003 QuoteIf you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. What were the results of this incident? Do you have some more info or a link maybe? Thanx. Blue Skies,=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #8 July 18, 2003 I guess I don't understand fully. I was reading the article in the safety section here, which explained an exit as : "Once you are poised outside of the airplane, start your arch before you let go. Then it is a simple matter to open your hands, pivot into the wind, and you're flying! " No 'jump' involved. Which is why I suppose I got this whole question in my head... if you just let go, you end up falling, and not being pushed back? And, now you mention not to "jump up" and I don't understand why one would, when the instructions above state to arch and let go. Help me understand please. Thanks!! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #9 July 18, 2003 Yeah, I know a dude who hit the tail of a T-Bo... he was alright (I think it bruised his shoulder), but it left a dent in the plane ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #10 July 18, 2003 The plane is going forward at 80+ knots. So, when you step off, you will continue to move forward (but not as fast as the plane) and be pulled down by gravity. You will fall between the door and the tail of the plane. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #11 July 18, 2003 Well, the reason that there are ussualy no problems is because when you leave the plane you are going as fast as the plane. You "jump" out into the relative wind and start to slow down (forward/horizontal movement), but for the most part by the time your slow enough to be at the tail of the plane you have fallen (Vertical) quite a bit. At least that is my newbie understanding of it. Edit: was typing at the same time as Jib~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #12 July 18, 2003 Ok, so, 'jump' is kinda a relative term, then. Still wondering how one would jump up, tho.. . But, I think I understand the concept of what i'm supposed to do. Thx! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #13 July 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteIf you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. What were the results of this incident? Do you have some more info or a link maybe? Thanx. Blue Skies, I know of a King Air that has seen: 1. Jumper exited in nice poised arch with arms high, leaving two small dents in the horizontal stab with his wrists. No medical attention required. 2. Jumper exited leaving large dent in horizontal stab with the back of his hard helmet. Jump went as planned, but after he landed, he had a bad headache an no memory of making the jump. Went to hospital and was diagnosed with concussion. 3. Lightweight girl hopped up on a poised exit, missing the horizontal stab by about three inches. I witnessed this. In the first two incidents, it was widely agreed that the pilot did not put the a/c in the proper attitude prior to turning on the green light. A King Air needs to have flaps down on jump run, which enables the pilot to pitch the nose down, (and the tail up), while still maintaining altitude. The third incident was a low-time jumper who made a mistake but was lucky. Bear in mind that even though you are traveling the same speed as the a/c, the moment you let go of it, your drag starts decelerating you, and this puts you closer to the tail."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #14 July 18, 2003 Lol now i see why that T-Tail kingair down in flordia is so popular!!!!=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #15 July 18, 2003 QuoteIf you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. Same is to be said of helicopter Definately do not jump up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #16 July 18, 2003 Had a friend hit the trailing edge of a King Air wing when he was the most forward person (but facing aft) on a four person train launch. The group was pretty much unhampered by skill. I was one of them.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #17 July 18, 2003 we cross" the thresshold INto freefall/ human flight..." Remember your physics class.. A body in motion tend to remain in motion.... as the exit BEGINS.... what you do with your body position, and exit momentum, relative to the propwash,, will affect your " location in the air,,", relative to the fuselage/tail section..... Years ago,,, I remember guys jumping from the cessna,,, with a piece of colored chalk,,,, in an attempt to "get close to the tail",,,, they would push,,,HARD toward the tail,, and make a mark with their chalk,,, as far down the fuselage as they could...as they fell away.... no one got close to to the horiz. stab... most got nowhere near the "N -numbers.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rixterman 0 #18 July 18, 2003 After 14 years in the sport I have seen 3 tail strikes two on a Twin Bo and one on a king air. I was on the plane on two and observing the third through a style camera and all were a result of a hard poised exit. That caused the jumper to gain lift and not fall away from the aircraft as they normally would. I to used to worry about tail strikes (especially doing video rear float on Twin Bo) Hope this helps calm your fears. RixterTREE CLIMBIN, PARAFOIL HOOKIN, SLIDER STOWIN MO FO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #19 July 18, 2003 People have hit the tail before and it is possible. Some aircraft it is more likely on. Different things can cause a tail strike. Jumper technique, Pilot technique, and equipement failure are all reasons for tail strikes. We must always work on each of these to ensure a safe exit. I jumper could climb too far aft on the tail and be in a position to hit it on exit. The pilot could bobble the plane during the exit or forget to configure the plane for jumprun and put the exiting jumper in a position to hit the tail. And thirdly you can have a premature deployment which could put you into the tail. That's why it is so important to protect your handles and pins while moving around in the aircraft and while climbing out into position.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #20 July 18, 2003 if you're the last to jump and the pilot dives hard... he might hit you ;-)---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #21 July 18, 2003 Quoteif you're the last to jump and the pilot dives hard... he might hit you ;-) You mean if he rolls his porter over for a cool photo op he might hit you in the suthin' sky?Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #22 July 18, 2003 something like that... seen real close passes between skydivers and porters... but looks real nice on the VDO... :-)---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #23 July 18, 2003 Quotesomething like that... seen real close passes between skydivers and porters... but looks real nice on the VDO... :-) I know of a Porter / jumper collision for real. Jumper got lucky. Pilot got lucky.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #24 July 18, 2003 QuoteOnce you are poised outside of the airplane, start your arch before you let go. Then it is a simple matter to open your hands, pivot into the wind, and you're flying! " No 'jump' involved. Which is why I suppose I got this whole question in my head... if you just let go, you end up falling, and not being pushed back? If you exit in that way. There are numerous ways to exit, that's what's called a poised exit. But if you're jumping with a group you may have 4 or more people crowded in and out the door holding onto each other all trying to exit into the wind in a different position. You'll see when you make your jump. Probably not something you need to worry about, your instructor will show you the proper way to exit for your jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyros1 0 #25 July 18, 2003 QuoteIf you are exiting from a King Air DO NOT jump UP. At least one jumper has hit the tail. Generally avoid to jump up!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
