vonSanta 0 #1 October 1, 2003 Am wondering what the general consensus is on jump numbers for being a beginner, lowtimer, intermediate and so forth? I do recognize that numbers alone are not necessarily indicative of skill but using the law of averages it's probably not too bad a way of measuring experience/skill. I consider myself a beginner, having only 66 jumps. Will stay so til I round say 150 jumps, by which I'll advance to low timer. My sis rounded 250 jumps recently and she's confident she's a low timer (I'd agree; how does 250 odd jumps compare to a few thousands?). Perhaps it should be measured more qualitatively and individually, but that'd be resource consuming and hard to implement. What are your ideas of beginner/lowtimers etc? Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #2 October 1, 2003 I think it depends on currency....and what types of jumping you do.... I mean I know a jumper with 1600 jumps that I could fly circles around ..why...becuase he mostly jumps by himself on his belly or does a lot of HnP's!! In all his years of jumping he really never got into a certain disapline...he just likes to throw himself outa a plane ...and thats great for him!!! But On the flip side I know a few jumpers with around 150 to 200 jumps that make me look like a student becuase they jump more often and really attacked a disapline !!! Myself I have 160 and consider myself to be a novice (just a fancy word for beginer) jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #3 October 1, 2003 In our system, You are a student until you get your A licence. You are an intermediate until you get your B. Your C is kinda like purgatory, and when you get your D, you're senior. In my view. We are all beginers. Always. I do (or have done at least 500) 4 way, CReW, Camera, AFF, Tandem. I've done big demo's. I've done some base. I'm learning Birdman and freeflying. I swoop. I learn things from people with less than 10% of the numbers I have. 1000 dives is an indication of commitment. Most people won't last ten years. In the words of one of my mentors, who still skydives and continues to extend his skills in all disiplines - "I've seen them come, and I've seen them go." I'm a novice, a beginner, a turkey. Some people think I'm not. I'm OK with that. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #4 October 1, 2003 Eloquently put Tonto. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weezil1 0 #5 October 1, 2003 Agreed. Very much so. I know that I will allways be a newbie. Complacency kills.To err is human (Total chaos requires a ferret) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixoligist 0 #6 October 1, 2003 Always remember.... It's a fine line between being a hot dog and being a weiner.................................. Better you than me .................................. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #7 October 1, 2003 If I may add this, I'm a very new skydiver, and I've already picked a discipline but I don't COUNT the jumps, I go by QUALITY not QUANTITY, which in my opinion is more important. My 2 cents.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #8 October 1, 2003 QuoteIf I may add this, I'm a very new skydiver, and I've already picked a discipline I'm glad to see I'm not the only newbie that doesnt automatically jump to freeflying because its the "cool" thing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #9 October 1, 2003 QuoteI'm glad to see I'm not the only newbie that doesnt automatically jump to freeflying because its the "cool" thing Right on brother!!__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #10 October 1, 2003 Hey, whats wrong with freefly??? Anyway, my $.02, we're all newbies till the day we die. Even the pros say that they learn something new on every jump. There's no "mastering" any discipline, there's no way to know everything about the sport. It's all learning, be it 10 jumps or 10,000. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #11 October 1, 2003 QuoteHey, whats wrong with freefly??? Nothing, it's great. I think what they mean is that so many people are going straight to FF right off AFF without ever spending any time learning how to fly on their bellies. Isn't freefly being able to fly your body in all orientations?... [/rant] QuoteAnyway, my $.02, we're all newbies till the day we die. Even the pros say that they learn something new on every jump. Just because they still learn something on every jump doesn't mean that (IMO) they are newbies. I still consier myself to be a newbie (with about 525 jumps) but in other aspects of my life (like work) I can still learn something new every day but do not consider myself a newbie. But to answer the question I consider newbie, beginner, etc. to be indications of how long one has been active in the sport. Even if someone who has been jumping for 10 years does not have a ton of jumps, they've still experienced a whole heck of a lot (for lack of a better description.) I would not consider them a newbie.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #12 October 1, 2003 Quotebut I don't COUNT the jumps, I go by QUALITY not QUANTITY, which in my opinion is more important. It can be, but there is no way to judge how many QUALITY jumps you have...It is easy to judge QUANTITY. Like it or not number of times you have done something is a very good rough indication of skill...Yes, it is not 100% accurate. But I bet that I can go out and get a bunch of guys with 1,000 jumps and do good 8way. I serouisly doubt I could do the same with a bunch of guys with 10 or 100 or even 200 jumps. Id also bet that a guy with 1000 jumps is better at freefly than a guy with 50 if they both have equal freefly jumps. I may not be right 100% of the time...I bet I would be right most of the time. "Jump numbers don't mean anything!" Is something that people with low jump numbers say until they get some jump numbers. Then they realize that while not perfect it is a good indicator of skill. But then again everyone things they are better than the "norm"....I hate to say this, but its normal to think you are better than the norm...Guess what? Chances are you are not. Even the skydivers with no skill think they have some. Tonto had the perfect answer to this...If you think you know what you are doing...chances are you don't have a clue. The more jumps and experience I get the more I find out I don't know. It's like that joke about teenagers telling them to move out and start work now while they still know everything....I see the same thing when I look at guys with under 1,000 jumps. Yeah you know somethings...But I see guys like Airspeed training and they have thousands of jumps....And they clearly don't know it all yet. What makes me think I know anything? But at 200 jumps I thought I knew everything....till I had 500 jumps. then at 500 jumps I realized I didn't know shit back at 200. And I thought I was an idiot when I thouht I knew it all.. Then I got 1000 and realized I didn't know anything when I had 500. 2000 I realized I didn't know shit at 1000. At 2,000 I decided to stop acting like I knew anything....And I have learned more in the last 1,000 jumps that the previous two thousand. Of course I am just typing this for no reason....The ones that will agree with me already know this, and the ones that think "Jump numbers don't mean shit" will continue to think that until they learn it on their own. I guess its life? For what its worth I think you are a lowtimer till you realize that you will never be a master. And now to put numbers on it for those that need them. Student till you get a license. Novice till around 100-150 jumps. Intermediate from 200-600ish. Advanced after 1,000. 1,000 jumps tells me that you had some level of dedication...Till then I expect you to quit anyday...And I have seen hundreds of jumpers just quit. It does not surprize me till after they have 1,000 jumps."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZoneRat 0 #13 October 1, 2003 [tongue in cheek] $300.00 to $4,000... Beginner. $4,000 to $15,000... Novice. $15,000 to $30,000.... Intermediate. $30,000 +... Advanced... USD [/tongue in cheek]“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #14 October 1, 2003 Is that just jumps, or is gear factored in? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZoneRat 0 #15 October 1, 2003 Post: Is that just jumps, or is gear factored in? Yes...Very used gear. However, I failed to account for something equally important. Please add a grand to the Beginner & Novice levels, for Cases of Beer.“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #16 October 1, 2003 Quote I'm glad to see I'm not the only newbie that doesnt automatically jump to freeflying because its the "cool" thing Every think people might actually enjoy Freeflying? Angela. (beginning freeflyer) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phonics1981 0 #17 October 1, 2003 Quote Every think people might actually enjoy Freeflying? Angela. (beginning freeflyer) Ive just got my Cat 8. My plan is to start RW to get myself better at flying in general then move to freeflying. Not cos its "cool" (i didnt even know it was regarded as that!) but because i think I'd enjoy it more. ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxerboy 0 #18 October 1, 2003 Whats not to enjoy about freeflyin. I also travel around, and being the low timer/turkey/whatever that I am I do alot of solo jumps at first, and belly flyin by yourself is not near as much fun to me as freeflyin by myself"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #19 October 1, 2003 QuoteWhats not to enjoy about freeflyin. I also travel around, and being the low timer/turkey/whatever that I am I do alot of solo jumps at first, and belly flyin by yourself is not near as much fun to me as freeflyin by myself Most certainly is more fun by yourself. Even more fun with someone else (in my case, someone with lots of experience, cuz I don't have that). I tried RW and it was alright, I just happen to like freeflying better is all, it is just more fun (to me). To each his/her own. To answer the original question, I don't know when you're no longer a beginner, because i'm still a beginner and don't foresee anythink happening in the immediate future to make me feel differently. Angela (didn't mean to hijack the thread) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #20 October 1, 2003 What a great question! You see for some people, they wake up to a "new world" every day. Those people are newbee's. Some people simply "never wake up" those are "deceased". But................. Serious now, jump numbers are a scale used for "comparison" not quality. As many will state, you can have thousands and not fly as well as a guy with less than a 100 depending upon several factors from simple coordination to training programs used. I look more for "maturity" than I do jump numbers. A guy at 22 years old with 50 jumps who has his head on right is more "mature" than a guy with 5000 jumps and a Sky God attitude. I'd rather jump with the 50 jumper. But most importantly, we all are students and newbee's. I just started jumping a Birdman suit. Jump number one scared the dickens out of me until I was out the door. Then, skydives on! Never be afraid of your jump numbers, never be "impressed" my others jump numbers. Look for mature attitudes, those are the guys and gals you'll love to jump with. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #21 October 1, 2003 From my perspective, I'll always think that freeflying is more fun than RW. But new skydivers should pay some form of dues in the RW world before they venture into the dark side. RW teaches new fliers how to fly relative to others faster than freeflying does and flying relative to others is the name of the game. New freefliers are struggling with learning how to fly their bodies and if they also have to learn to fly relative to others at the same time, getting to some sort of mythical talent level could take longer if the new flier hasn't paid their dues learning to fly with others. But once freefliers learn to fly their bodies as well as to know how to fly relative to others, then it's the "shitz" and no other form of flying one's body (IMHO) comes close to freeflying. Oh, for what it's worth in the context of this thread. I consider myself nothing more and nothing less than an intermediate skydiver. I do think my canopy skills are ahead of my freeflying skills (and for sure ahead of my RW skills). But I only have tons of things to continue learning in this great sport of ours. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PilotMike 0 #22 October 2, 2003 QuoteStudent till you get a license. Novice till around 100-150 jumps. Intermediate from 200-600ish. Advanced after 1,000. I thought it was funny looking at this from a pilot's perspective. We're students till we get licensed (obviously). Then to get your commercial ticket, you need 250 hours (Intermediate). And to fly twin turbines for a DZ, you need 1,000 hours. If you do a little math, an "advanced" skydiver with 1,000 jumps at 1 minute per jump, only has 16.667 hours of practice. I know some pilots that hadn't even soloed an airplane with that many hours... -------- Benefitting from the 'free capture of verticality.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #23 October 2, 2003 Freeflying certainly looks cool. But personally I got really excited/amazed/envy when I watched the RW vids from Mondial. Now thats what I wanna do. But tbh I have never even attempted freeflying. I dont have the rig for it, but I dont have the desire to borrow someone elses, as I always have people to do RW with. UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #24 October 2, 2003 QuoteI thought it was funny looking at this from a pilot's perspective. We're students till we get licensed (obviously). Then to get your commercial ticket, you need 250 hours (Intermediate). And to fly twin turbines for a DZ, you need 1,000 hours. If you do a little math, an "advanced" skydiver with 1,000 jumps at 1 minute per jump, only has 16.667 hours of practice. I know some pilots that hadn't even soloed an airplane with that many hours... Totaly agree...Thats why no one is a "Master". It really tickles me to hear a guy with 300-400 jumps act like he knows it all..300 jumps is 5 HOURS of practice....In no sport or hobby that I know of does 5 hrs of practice make you an "Expert". I have over 40 Hrs. of freefall....Over 10 years. 40 hrs is nothing (I also have over a hundred hrs of tunnel). But 140 hrs of trainning over 10 years? 14 hrs a year.....Name one other sport where you can train for 14 hrs a year and still be considered "good". And to bring pilots certificates into this. You need 35 hrs (141) or 40 hrs (part 135) to get a pilots license....Most people take around 10 hrs to SOLO. But at 8 min of canopy time per skydive at 300 jumps you just met the MINUMUM for a pilots license. But your an expert right? At 40 hrs of flight time I bet few pilots are flying a Pitts special...But most skydivers at 300 jumps think its cool, and OK to fly a Xbraced. This is why I think its funny to see a guy with 300-500 jumps thinks he knows all.....When you finaly realize you don't know anything...then you learn more."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #25 October 2, 2003 Sure puts things in perspective. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
