yoink 321 #1 October 8, 2003 I'm considering getting a new canopy ... I've been offered a really good deal but just wondered what people jumping / tried them thought of it? Ta, Will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #2 October 8, 2003 I found it to be an amazing canopy. If you can get a good deal on one, I suggest you do it. I put about 160 jumps on two different types of Lotus 170s--the original and the Lotus2 (which is trimmed flatter and ends up being somewhere between the original Lotus and a Samurai in the control range and with turns and dive). After putting a half dozen jumps on a Sabre2 170 (with about 50 jumps on it at the time), I demoed and bought a Lotus. The two canopies were comparable, but I found the (original) Lotus to be far more responsive and more efficient with a slightly negative recovery arc. With similar inputs for a 90 degree front riser approach, the Lotus didn't immediately want to plane out like the Sabre2 went a good bit farther in the surf. The Lotus2 mod simply refined and amplified all these positive attributes. I never had any problems with the openings. It occasionally wandered off the original heading by about 45 degrees, but that could have been me overflying the opening. It never slammed me, but it was on the faster side of the opening spectrum, considering the Spectre to be on the slower end. The biggest advantage I found were the airlocks. Flying an airlocked canopy is a little different than a regular open-nosed breather. It remains very ridgid in most conditions. That means ya almost need to "bump" the toggles prior to the flare in order to start planing out. In turbulence, I found it to be fantastic. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to bow-tie in dynamic toggle stalls up high. In rear riser dynamic stalls, it never seemed to squeeze out the air, so it felt like it wanted to stay up there longer, deeper into the stall. Airlocks did add a bit of pack volume, but that slight draw-back was easily overcome by their fantastic attributes. Hope this helped... mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #3 October 8, 2003 I've got a few jumps on one loaded at about 1.3:1. Flew great, landed absolutely fantastic. It did have some bizarre openings (hard diving turns) and one slammer, but everybody I've talked to who owns a Lotus say that theirs give great openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #4 October 8, 2003 Thanks guys.. sounds like the Louts2 is pretty good... I might have to head over to the States, see if I can demo one there Will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #5 October 8, 2003 Does anyone know if I can get hold of a demo in Australia?-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #6 October 8, 2003 Go here and ask. With winter coming on in the states, they may be able to hook you up with something. Ya should just hop the big pond and come to Florida and demo one there. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #7 October 9, 2003 Here's my review from the gear section Lotus Reviews -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Review ID:586) 3 of 8 people found the following review helpful: Opened fast and hard Rated by: johnny1488 on Thu Oct 03 2002 (user profile) (user reviews) Pros: Airlocks if you want them Cons: Twitchy and scary at least to me I demoed a lotus 190 when Brian Germain was at the ranch. I have never been so scared in all my 360 jumps. Opened fast and hard. Tried some flares and the sweetspot seemed high but good enough. Went to do a toggle turn down to my waist and after 180 degrees it tried to collapse on itself. Even minor turns and braked turns felt twitchy. I spent the rest of my 5000' hoping I would make it to the ground. I respect Brian Germain very much as he was very willing to share his wealth of knowledge but his canopies are not for me. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #8 October 9, 2003 I wonder if now that you've got some experience on a canopies with a higher proformance level then the Lotus if you would have the same opinion.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #9 October 9, 2003 I got to Demo a Lotus while I was at Byron 2 weeks ago.. I had a good opeing on both jumps.. but I did pack myself some line twists.. on the second jump.. started to dive then leveled out.. flew.. SWEEET... good and solid bumping thru some thermals over the old runways... Excellent landings altho I was not used to the abilityof the canopy to climb... I flew the second landing and it was smooth and good. I love the airlocks.. and I really want a Samurai.. so that is what I will buy this winter. Jeanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #10 October 9, 2003 ...or tried one that probably didn't have a bajillion jumps on the lineset. Line trim on the Lotus makes a big difference. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #11 October 9, 2003 I love my xfire2, if thats what you mean. Im a sucker for a deep control range. The sabre2s I've flown felt twitchy and I thought flew like shit, but thats just me. The lotus was super twitchy and more than half of the toggle stroke was useless. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #12 October 12, 2003 well that's generally explained by the Icarus canopies gernerally needing deeper inputs. the "PD-Style" control characteristics (ie: sabre, stiletto, samurai, etc...) are jsut a different animal. You've largely grown up on icarus canopies and so that's what you're used to.... people going the other direction find the opposite, not that their canopies are twitchy, but that the icarus canopies can be more mushy. They're not, you just need to now how to fly them for the responsiveness they CAN have in the rigth hands. Likewise, the sabre2 and lotus are anything but switchy (try a stiletto sometime), but having 600 jumps on canopies with a much deeper control range will naturally lead into into over-inputting on canopies with smaller stroke. It also seem unfair to put forth such a harsh review of a canopy after suck a limited experience on it. It sounds like you put only 1 jump on it, and with the rest of the contributing factors i mentioned above, i really don't think you gave the canopy a chance. They're certainly not the deathtraps your review makes them out to be. Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #13 October 13, 2003 QuotePros: Airlocks if you want them Cons: Twitchy and scary at least to me Wow...I guess if you think a Lotus is twitchy, a Stiletto or Vengeance would probably scare you to death. Granted, I only have 3 jumps on a Lotus, but I found it very controllable and not very "twitchy"(at a 1.5 wing loading). I did find the Samurai(at 1.5 and especially at 1.7 wing loading) twitchy, but definitely controllable and quite fun. The only thing I don't like about 'em is the larger pack volume due to the airlocks. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #14 October 13, 2003 Is it twitchy or responsive? If you're driving a higher performance car you are going to feel more of the bumps in the road but you're driving the machine to handle it. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #15 October 13, 2003 QuoteIs it twitchy or responsive? If you're driving a higher performance car you are going to feel more of the bumps in the road but you're driving the machine to handle it. Ken I definitely considered it a little twitchy...but, that was also back when they were made in Brian's garage. I have not jumped one that was manufactured by PD. Since everything Brian made before that was hand made, they were all just a little different and flew a little different. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #16 October 13, 2003 Pluses on Lotus: -Good control range, both toggle and front riser -Relatively stable -Powerful flare; similar to Sabre 2 Minuses: -Expensive -Slightly higher pack volume -More variation in canopies than usual; it's possible to get a "lemon" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #17 October 13, 2003 QuoteMinuses: -Expensive -Slightly higher pack volume -More variation in canopies than usual; it's possible to get a "lemon" Actually, with the price drop the Lotus and the Sam are only a few dollars off from PD canopies and in some cases from some dealers cheaper then them. Also with PD making all but the "Signature Series" there is a greaters consistancy in the canopies then there was only 3 years ago. With a PD made canopy I'd say there is as much consistancy as there is on a Sabre2 or Spectre.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #18 October 14, 2003 also, years ago brian's canopies were hand cut, whereas everything is one on a laser cutting table now. Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
