High-G jump plane turns, or "Am I just a wuss?"

[FrogNog 1]

Let's make this entirely hypothetical (from my standpoint) and start with a big disclaimer: I am a newbie (only 30 jumps) and am not a pilot.

My Question is: how "hard" of turns do your jump pilots do with jumpers on board, and under what circumstances? (Diver drivers may, of course, answer with what they themselves do.)

I'm asking this because at 30 jumps I'm still a bundle of nerves and I find it easier to be calm and on top of things when I stick my head out the door and spot and jump if I didn't just have all the blood drained out of my head getting turned onto jump run.

OTOH, I realize every part of skydiving is a ride and can be fun (except "bad air" in the plane), and this adds to some peoples' pleasure. Plus all the pilots I have ridden with get us there totally safe and sound. I have chalked this up as "I am a wuss" and I just hang on and do whatever it takes to keep oxygen in my brain at 10k or 13k before I goes.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[billvon 2,400]

>My Question is: how "hard" of turns do your jump pilots do with
> jumpers on board, and under what circumstances? (Diver drivers
> may, of course, answer with what they themselves do.)

I've had pilots that pulled damn near 2G's, and others that sneak around with no more than a 15 degree bank. It doesn't bother me either way, but sometimes my students are bothered by violent manuevering. In terms of speed of operations (which in turn affects jump prices) there are advantages to doing a rapid 180 or 360 to start the second pass, but they're minor.

> . . . all the blood drained out of my head getting turned onto jump run.

Hmm. No reason to _have_ to make that a violent turn. On a normal climb and turn onto a single jump run, you actually get to altitude faster with gradual, gentle turns.

[FrogNog 1]

>Hmm. No reason to _have_ to make that a violent turn. On a normal climb and turn onto a single jump run, you actually get to altitude faster with gradual, gentle turns.

In a perfect world, I agree. And under even normal non-perfect circumstances, it is still the case that the pilots I have ridden with almost never make "sharp" turns on or before a single / the first jump run upon arriving at position. But there are go-arounds, traffic delays, and split DZs.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[billvon 2,400]

>But there are go-arounds, traffic delays, and split DZs.

Go arounds - I agree that there is some time benefit to making sharp turns during goarounds, but certainly no neccessity. Traffic delays - why does that require hard manuevering? And what's a split DZ? Is that one where the LZ isn't close to the airport? We had that at Brown; there was no need for hard manuevering. Indeed, it was kind of cool that you could pull back power in the Porter and be on final for the runway from where you were (depending on the spot, of course.)

[pilotdave 0]

G forces are something you get used to as you fly more. It doesn't take a very tight turn to generate enough Gs to really feel. If you ever get the chance to fly in a small plane (ie not when you're jumping), ask the pilot to show you a 60 degree bank turn. 60 degrees never sounded so steep to me, but from inside the plane, you'd probably think you were in a 90 degree bank. In a level 60 degree bank turn, you're pulling exactly 2 Gs. Thats a lot more than you should ever experience in a jump plane. 2 Gs is enough to feel your cheeks drooping, and lifting your hands becomes difficult. Try that, and I bet the 30 degree bank you might experience in a jump plane will feel like nothing. But yeah, G forces can be very uncomfortable, but I guarantee you are nowhere near losing consciousness due to the Gs you'll pull in a jump plane. Also, the recovery time after pulling enough Gs to "gray out" is pretty short.

Dave

[Staso 0]

yes, you are a wuss if i could i would ask the pilot to crank it up a notch. don't worry, it will go away and you will start enjoying it

stan.

--
it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ...
Speed Skydiving Forum

[Casch 0]

I exited a 182 in a banked turn for the first time. I was gonna do a poised exit, but I couldn't even stand up on the step, I felt like I weighed 300lbs. I ended up just rolling off cause I couldn't hold myself up anymore I'm guessing that was only a 30 degree bank, but it was pretty damn fun

[FrogNog 1]

Staso: yes, you are a wuss ... don't worry, it will go away and you will start enjoying it

Me: See, I suspected as much. I will try to be less of a wuss, then. Hey, more incentive to lose weight - 10 pounds would be like 15 or 20 on a tight go-around.

Casch: I exited a 182 in a banked turn for the first time. I was gonna do a poised exit, but I couldn't even stand up on the step, I felt like I weighed 300lbs. I ended up just rolling off cause I couldn't hold myself up anymore

Me: Did you go high-side or low-side?

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[VectorBoy 0]

Oh no, You are not going to like zero "g" either.

A young visitor to our DZ got all worked up on a sunset load when she heard there was boobies for more altitude. " No extra alti " the pilot said center would not allow. Same girls said "Zero g it then" !

This visiting jumper got so worked up the minute before that I thought she was going to puke. It was really no big deal. And in the end she felt silly for getting all worked up.

You will get used to more and more as exposure to this kind of stuff increases, soon you will be the requestor of the hyjinx. But a word of advise... until you do get use to it stay off the pink skyvan.

[prepheckt 0]

Every try a 4.5 G turn in an F-16?? Makes the 30 degree bank seem like a love tap. but if you feel lightheaded, next time that happens, compress your abs and and legs to keep the blood in your upper body.

"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

Every try a 4.5 G turn in an F-16?? Makes the 30 degree bank seem like a love tap. but if you feel lightheaded, next time that happens, compress your abs and and legs to keep the blood in your upper body.

And vocally go GRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......it helps.

[flyangel2 2]

Years ago when I was a S/L jumpmaster, we used a 206 or a 205 to put students out. It was always a game among the JMs to see if they could get all six or five students in the air at the same time. That took some good turns to get students moved to the door, hooked up, and out. Oh the good ole days.
I personally love the plane rides that give me the most excitement. Maybe understanding how the plane works will help ease your fears.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[riggerrob 558]

Sounds like your pilot is being unprofessional. There is rarely any need to exceed a 30 degree bank with skydivers on board.
I used to instruct at Snohomish and I cannot understand any connection between a split DZ and high-G turns.
For the uninitiated, a split DZ has a student landing field a few miles from the airport. In Snohomish's case, the airport is right beside the tidal river that separates it from town. It is far safer to drop the static-line students over a farmer's field a few miles from major obstacles. Yes, the van ride is a nuisance, but it gives you a chance to debrief the students. Note, tandems and senior licensed jumpers land on Snohomish Airport (aka. Harvey Field), next to town.

[greybeard 0]

The scariest ride of my life, many, many, years ago, I had to ride down with Mike Mullins due to a gear problem. I was plastered against the windshield in the right seat, and screamed the whole way. We touched down before I even saw any canopies open.

Take a couple of observer rides, and get to know the pilots. They love to talk about their job and will help you understand how and why they do what they do.

Airplanes are a part of skydiving that we should all know more about.

[shedao 0]

Quote

Every try a 4.5 G turn in an F-16??

Of course I have. Who hasn't?.


Lucky bastard!

[prepheckt 0]

Going to the AFA does have its advantages..

"Dancing Argentine Tango is like doing calculus with your feet."
-9 toes

[FrogNog 1]

> And vocally go GRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......it helps.

I have a tear in my eye because I can't stop laughing at the concept. Is this serious? No, don't tell me, I want to do it anyway and see if it helps, then I'll explain to whoever's next to me when I get asked what I'm doing.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[JeffD 0]

hes serious. if you grunt it is the same thing as sqeezing your stomach muscles which pushes more blood into your head. he doesn't mean like Grrrr. But like your trying to pass a 10lb turd GGGRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrr.

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

But like your trying to pass a 10lb turd GGGRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrr.

Yah, that kind of Gggrrrrrrr.....It's a grunt. It tightens the stomach muscles. Now, truely, if you need to grunt in a 2 G turn to stay awake you might want to take up another activity until you visit your doctor and find out why. Or, it could mean you just need to start jogging, and improving your health.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[billvon 2,400]

>Is this serious?

Yeah. What I do is try as hard as I can to blow through a little hole in my lips. The general term for all these manuevers is valsalva'ing - basically contracting the muscles of your abdomen to increase the blood pressure in your upper body.

[FrogNog 1]

>... if you need to grunt in a 2 G turn to stay awake you might want to take up another activity until you visit your doctor and find out why.

I'm pretty sure at this point my psychological reaction is far outweighing my physiological reaction. And performing physiological "coping" techniques may work great for me due to their psychological properties, as well.

I do need to get back into better cardiovascular health; I slow down a bit on half a dozen flights of stairs - I'd be a complete loss if I had to climb to altitude without the airplane doing all the hard work!

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Aviatrr 0]

I'm sure it's all psychological. It's something new....something you're not used to...so it will probably feel pretty strange and uncomfortable at first. Your pilot really shouldn't be doing any outrageous maneuvers - it only stresses the airplane and its occupants. 2G's is not much, and most people can withstand 2G's nearly indefinitely without any adverse effects. Personally, at around 4G's I really need to "bear down"(tensing abs and leg muscles) to be ok for more than 10-12 seconds. At around 6G's, I start to get a headache and start to have a difficult time flying the airplane. At about 7G's, I start to get tunnel vision - and that's WITH a G-suit. I'm ok for a few seconds at 8G's or so, but after 5-6 seconds I black out. Most I've ever seen was 8.8G's, and I was out like a light in 3 seconds flat. As you can see, it takes quite a bit to see the really serious things start to happen.

Mike

[VectorBoy 0]

Quote

The scariest ride of my life, many, many, years ago, I had to ride down with Mike Mullins due to a gear problem. I was plastered against the windshield in the right seat, and screamed the whole way. We touched down before I even saw any canopies open.

Quote

Well he was charging good money for this very thing at Rantoul, I even thought about doing it. Don't know if he charges more for screaming though.

• Quote

Share this post

---

Link to post

Share on other sites

[CJK 0]

I have recently finished my Jumpmaster course. Let me tell ya, the ride they gave us scared me shitless
We were simulating all sorts of weird stuff and I later heard the guys on the ground talk about it. We were going about 200 feet AGL and the pilot was doing these weird ass yaws all over the show. Then we had some tree hopping. Then a lot of other crap hehehe.

Even though I didn't quite cure me of being nervous at bumps and stuff in the plane, it DID teach me how to hide the nervousness

Grounded?!?!?! Whadda ya mean I'm "GROUNDED"?!?!?!?!