ibx 2 #1 April 3, 2004 Hy, i'm doing a static line course in a pretty small club in germany. it's mandatory for us to learn how to pack. The instructors say, you jump, you pack, there are no two ways about it. After reading a fair amount of posts on dz.com, i've come to the impression, that students in the us get rented gear and pay for the packjob. Do you guys know how to pack a parachute by yourself, the day you get your A license ? thanks, just trying to figure out whats out whats goin' on beyond the great pond ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BethUK 0 #2 April 3, 2004 Hey there, Congrats on starting to jump! I learned to pack during my AFF and have been packing my own since (still have some probs sometimes getting it in the bag!), never yet paid for a pack job! Think it's better that way personally, as you feel more confident with your ability and can get on more loads instead of having to wait around to have your rig packed. Best of luck! Beth x------------------------------------------------------------ "This isn't flying...it's falling with style!" Buzz Lightyear - Toystory 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #3 April 3, 2004 I learned how to pack after I did my AFF Level 2, just because it was a crappy, overcast day at the dropzone, and I had nothing better to do. The A license proficiency card from the USPA has a section where you must get signed off by your instructor on packing. It says something like "Pack a main parachute without assistance." _Pm Edited to add: Even though I knew how to pack, I didn't do it very often on my student jumps. The cost of a pack job was included in the student jump price...__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BethUK 0 #4 April 3, 2004 As president of a uni club I see alot of students jumping rented gear, they too have the price of a pack included, HOWEVER I still encourage them to learn to pack, as they get £3 back of their student jump ticket price if they do that! Never too soon to learn to pack in my opinion...as some people take longer than others to learn (moi!) Bx------------------------------------------------------------ "This isn't flying...it's falling with style!" Buzz Lightyear - Toystory 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerryfuss 0 #5 April 3, 2004 Although it is not a requirement to finish the AFF program, you do need to be able to pack before you get your A license (under CSPA anyways). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #6 April 3, 2004 I start AFF in a few weeks and have been reading so many different peoples views about having someone else pack for you. I have decided when I get my own gear to pack myself. It's not how much it cost, it's my gear and I rather do it. You don't know if the person your paying to pack made a mistake. Not that they would be careless in packing, you just don't know. No matter what sport you do you should now your equipment inside and out. Not rely on someone else to take care of your stuff because it is easier. DeedyTPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #7 April 3, 2004 QuoteHOWEVER I still encourage them to learn to pack, as they get £3 back of their student jump ticket price if they do that! Ah, you see, I actually asked to get my pack job money back...the times I DID pack on my student jumps, they said to me, "You're supposed to learn how to pack anyway to get signed off for your A license. We're not going to give you your $5 back!" So, I figured I'd get my money's worth. _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #8 April 3, 2004 The first dropzone I was learning at I was helping pack my own main following my first jump, small DZ with a line for the cessna, just made sense to them to have me do the work with them standing over my shoulder. never got a "packing course" nor did they raise or lower the price of the studnet jump if I was involved in the packing, on the 6-9th jumps I just did it with someone watching. to be honest I never even thought about "I packed this" when I jumped Now at SDC I havn't packed a single main, its much more high paced the student gear is in serious demand and the packers are faster then the students, the program REQUIRES a packing course and that you jump your own packjob (also an A requirement in the US) Personally I plan on doing all my own packing, even if I have to pay a packer just to watch me a few times to make sure I've got it right. (always a good idea as you can get useful tips from packers) Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adrenalinejunki 0 #9 April 3, 2004 you should feel fortunate that someone is trying to take the time to teach you to pack. I have 35 jumps now and still can't pack because no one has tried to take the time to show me. I have been stretching my canopy out and trying to flat pack it and in our small packing area they have to help me because they can't pack thier own rigs until i get mine out of the way . __________________________________________________What's the worst that can happen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiquita 12 #10 April 4, 2004 I think it is ridiculous that a dz would let someone have that many jumps and not teach them to pack. I once taught a guy to pack that had about the same number of jumps, it really only takes about 15-30 minutes to teach someone the basics. It is a requirement, and as fara as I know pretty much always has been, for you A license to be able to pack a main, I have been packing since before I graduated AFF. I have only had some one else pack my main maybe 3 times and that was only done because i was doing them a favor at the time (but never had I asked them to pack my main, tehy just did to be helpful). I think the sooner the you learn to pack the better. After learning if you decide to pay someone to pack that is your choice, but you should still know how to pack. What if you land off, would you rather cary the whole canopy and container or just a packed container? Plus I think it give you a (at least) better understanding of the canopy. As far as a discount on student jumps if you pack yourself, if you are still doing AFF or static line jumps I think it shouldn't matter. In a way you are paying for training and the training should include packing instruction of some kind. Once you are renting gear, if you are packing your own I think you should not have to pay for the pack job. At the end of the day maybe, especially if you are not signed off to pack on your own or just to be on the safe side. Just my 2 cents."Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #11 April 4, 2004 personally, I as an AFF student, I had enough to concentrate on. don't add "oh my god I packed this myself is it gonna open" worries to the mix. I took a packing class shortly after I finished AFF, and can pack for myself when I choose. You can't get an A license without knowing how to pack. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aykay 0 #12 April 4, 2004 Quote don't add "oh my god I packed this myself is it gonna open" worries to the mix. Quote At least you didnt pack the reserve! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ibx 2 #13 April 4, 2004 Quoteyou should feel fortunate that someone is trying to take the time to teach you to pack. I have 35 jumps now and still can't pack because no one has tried to take the time to show me. I have been stretching my canopy out and trying to flat pack it and in our small packing area they have to help me because they can't pack thier own rigs until i get mine out of the way . __________________________________________________ Well I think it's part of training we get here. Our Student rigs are all numbered and each one has a so called pack-card(not the reserve card) . Once we finished a jump, we lay out our canopies for a side pack. The pack-card is divided into five check points, after you finish a point you have to get an instructor sign it off. You can only continue after that point is signed, else they'll make open it again. So it's all layed out for us to learn howto pack, I think this is a good system, it makes you feel safe and you certainly know how to pack the day you get your license. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flynhigh 0 #14 April 4, 2004 I jump and work at a small cessna dropzone - our student progression introduces packing from the very first jump you make. You learn a little more each time you jump so that by the time you're signed off instruction (for coach jumps leading to your A license) you know how to pack a parachute. An instructor or rigger is with the student supervising each one of these interactions. Though its not a USPA requirement until you become A licensed - our DZ requires you pack a parachute completely (under supervision) to be signed off instruction for coach jumps. I think its awesome - I've traveled to many other DZs where I saw no emphasis placed on packing whatsoever during AFF. I pack for myself (most of the time) and have confidence that all of our students know how to pack also. Hope that helps! Dare to dream and then make it happen! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craichead 0 #15 April 4, 2004 QuoteAs far as a discount on student jumps if you pack yourself, if you are still doing AFF or static line jumps I think it shouldn't matter. In a way you are paying for training and the training should include packing instruction of some kind. I had to pay extra to take a packing course. It wasn't really included in my AFF training. One of the problems with my DZ is that throughout AFF, often times a student will get a different instructor on each jump. Who would the student go to to learn how to pack? There is an illusion that everybody is so busy (and many times, this is true) that they can't take to time to walk the student through a proper, thorough packing course. So, the packing course "concession" comes into existence, and it's usually run by the head packer. _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flynhigh 0 #16 April 4, 2004 It may help to build some packing objectives (that are written and documented) into an AFF program. That way no matter which instructor is teaching the student, they have a reference as to what needs to be taught at each level jump. And if the student documents in their log what they've done - it'll make the instructor's life easier. Just a thought..... Dare to dream and then make it happen! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shodan75 0 #17 April 4, 2004 I was taught how to pack during the winter in Canada before I started my Aff. It was prefect because there is already to much info. overload alrady during your training and I'm a bit of a control freak so I'm a little skeptical about jumping a rig that I have not packed......even when I know everything will probably be fine.One must ensure that his or her spirit is never broken......Samurai Maxim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckbrown 0 #18 April 5, 2004 There are lots of licensed jumpers who are uncomfortable with their packing abilities (even though they've been signed off by an Instructor). As a result they use packers (their dollar). Personally, when I was a low time jumper, I repeatedly packed and pulled the main back out to simulate deployment so I could see how the parachute opened. This went along way in giving me a comfort level with my packing. I've never had to cut away from my own pack job. I think it's great that you have to jump your own pack job; you'll pay more attention to packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wrightskyguy 1 #19 April 5, 2004 If the U.S. it is a requirement to be able to pack to get your A license, I have however, met newly licensed jumpers who had no idea what so ever how to pack. Packing instruction is supposed to be an integral part of the training process, not an additional fee add-on like it is in a few DZ's I know of. Jump nice John Wright John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpingjoe 0 #20 April 6, 2004 I learned to pack during AFF. Packing was something that I really struggled with. I did my pack and jump but that was it. I was very scared because I just didn't get it. Just didn't understand what was going on. I spent extra time with a jumpmaster and he was the best. Gave me the confidence that I was looking for and showed me some key pointers to getting that thing in the bag. I am no expert but I get my gear packed in about 15 minutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #21 April 6, 2004 in my DZ in switzerland, it's like for you in Germany... You jump, you pack ! and it's a good thing.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bosveld 0 #22 April 6, 2004 I started packing before I started jumping. In those days our dropzone also insisted on students packing their parachutes (supervised) from the first jump. Since then we got a King-Air and the student gear is really in high demand. There's no time for packing instruction, the rigs needs to be packed almost always for the next load. Since this is the case, we have people with over 100 jumps who's just not interested in learning to pack. They'd rather pay someone to do it for them. At the boogies you find those people grounded because all the packers are jumping, and these guys can't get the loads in they want. Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites karenmeal 0 #23 April 6, 2004 If you're jumping at a dropzone that forces you to learn to pack very early, you've got a tremendous headstart over many other newbies! I learned to pack during my AFF and it helped me to understand and have confidence in my gear. I think that truly understanding packing and the effect of different techniques is an invaluable skill in our sport. Its not something that you simply learn from taking a packing course. Its more a skill that you figure out through lots of repitition and curiosity. I know that at large dropzones its easy for people to get lost in the crowd and continue to put off learning to pack. However, it is your personal responsibility to learn as much as you can about your gear. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Designer 0 #24 April 6, 2004 We used to learn to pack right away after we began to understand how cool this sport really was.Was 3 or 4 jumps when I solo packed my first round parachute!Then came the squares!OH MAN,How do we pack these freaky things.You mostly learn by doing at first.I watch student after student struggle with packing!The "What If" question they can't seem to get out of their heads.Break it down in steps.As of today the"Rabbit Quick Method" takes no less than 35 steps.The first time I tried to write it all down,it came to 7 pages long(ways too long!)I welcome the new students to take the time(as long as you need and feel comfortable with your pack)to learn to do this?It gets better the more you know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeeeeeeFly 0 #25 April 6, 2004 I am in the US. I have found many out there that do take advantage of packers and getting by without the knowledge of packing but in the end it is not advantageous. I learned by renting a rig and had a rigger show me how once then the rest of the day I practiced. By the end of the day I had a decent pack job then the rigger told me to go jump it... Pretty scary but once you have you realize how to trust yourself and your equipment... ~G~ "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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ibx 2 #13 April 4, 2004 Quoteyou should feel fortunate that someone is trying to take the time to teach you to pack. I have 35 jumps now and still can't pack because no one has tried to take the time to show me. I have been stretching my canopy out and trying to flat pack it and in our small packing area they have to help me because they can't pack thier own rigs until i get mine out of the way . __________________________________________________ Well I think it's part of training we get here. Our Student rigs are all numbered and each one has a so called pack-card(not the reserve card) . Once we finished a jump, we lay out our canopies for a side pack. The pack-card is divided into five check points, after you finish a point you have to get an instructor sign it off. You can only continue after that point is signed, else they'll make open it again. So it's all layed out for us to learn howto pack, I think this is a good system, it makes you feel safe and you certainly know how to pack the day you get your license. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flynhigh 0 #14 April 4, 2004 I jump and work at a small cessna dropzone - our student progression introduces packing from the very first jump you make. You learn a little more each time you jump so that by the time you're signed off instruction (for coach jumps leading to your A license) you know how to pack a parachute. An instructor or rigger is with the student supervising each one of these interactions. Though its not a USPA requirement until you become A licensed - our DZ requires you pack a parachute completely (under supervision) to be signed off instruction for coach jumps. I think its awesome - I've traveled to many other DZs where I saw no emphasis placed on packing whatsoever during AFF. I pack for myself (most of the time) and have confidence that all of our students know how to pack also. Hope that helps! Dare to dream and then make it happen! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craichead 0 #15 April 4, 2004 QuoteAs far as a discount on student jumps if you pack yourself, if you are still doing AFF or static line jumps I think it shouldn't matter. In a way you are paying for training and the training should include packing instruction of some kind. I had to pay extra to take a packing course. It wasn't really included in my AFF training. One of the problems with my DZ is that throughout AFF, often times a student will get a different instructor on each jump. Who would the student go to to learn how to pack? There is an illusion that everybody is so busy (and many times, this is true) that they can't take to time to walk the student through a proper, thorough packing course. So, the packing course "concession" comes into existence, and it's usually run by the head packer. _Pm__ "Scared of love, love and aeroplanes...falling out, I said takes no brains." -- Andy Partridge (XTC) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flynhigh 0 #16 April 4, 2004 It may help to build some packing objectives (that are written and documented) into an AFF program. That way no matter which instructor is teaching the student, they have a reference as to what needs to be taught at each level jump. And if the student documents in their log what they've done - it'll make the instructor's life easier. Just a thought..... Dare to dream and then make it happen! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shodan75 0 #17 April 4, 2004 I was taught how to pack during the winter in Canada before I started my Aff. It was prefect because there is already to much info. overload alrady during your training and I'm a bit of a control freak so I'm a little skeptical about jumping a rig that I have not packed......even when I know everything will probably be fine.One must ensure that his or her spirit is never broken......Samurai Maxim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #18 April 5, 2004 There are lots of licensed jumpers who are uncomfortable with their packing abilities (even though they've been signed off by an Instructor). As a result they use packers (their dollar). Personally, when I was a low time jumper, I repeatedly packed and pulled the main back out to simulate deployment so I could see how the parachute opened. This went along way in giving me a comfort level with my packing. I've never had to cut away from my own pack job. I think it's great that you have to jump your own pack job; you'll pay more attention to packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrightskyguy 1 #19 April 5, 2004 If the U.S. it is a requirement to be able to pack to get your A license, I have however, met newly licensed jumpers who had no idea what so ever how to pack. Packing instruction is supposed to be an integral part of the training process, not an additional fee add-on like it is in a few DZ's I know of. Jump nice John Wright John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpingjoe 0 #20 April 6, 2004 I learned to pack during AFF. Packing was something that I really struggled with. I did my pack and jump but that was it. I was very scared because I just didn't get it. Just didn't understand what was going on. I spent extra time with a jumpmaster and he was the best. Gave me the confidence that I was looking for and showed me some key pointers to getting that thing in the bag. I am no expert but I get my gear packed in about 15 minutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #21 April 6, 2004 in my DZ in switzerland, it's like for you in Germany... You jump, you pack ! and it's a good thing.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bosveld 0 #22 April 6, 2004 I started packing before I started jumping. In those days our dropzone also insisted on students packing their parachutes (supervised) from the first jump. Since then we got a King-Air and the student gear is really in high demand. There's no time for packing instruction, the rigs needs to be packed almost always for the next load. Since this is the case, we have people with over 100 jumps who's just not interested in learning to pack. They'd rather pay someone to do it for them. At the boogies you find those people grounded because all the packers are jumping, and these guys can't get the loads in they want. Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites karenmeal 0 #23 April 6, 2004 If you're jumping at a dropzone that forces you to learn to pack very early, you've got a tremendous headstart over many other newbies! I learned to pack during my AFF and it helped me to understand and have confidence in my gear. I think that truly understanding packing and the effect of different techniques is an invaluable skill in our sport. Its not something that you simply learn from taking a packing course. Its more a skill that you figure out through lots of repitition and curiosity. I know that at large dropzones its easy for people to get lost in the crowd and continue to put off learning to pack. However, it is your personal responsibility to learn as much as you can about your gear. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Designer 0 #24 April 6, 2004 We used to learn to pack right away after we began to understand how cool this sport really was.Was 3 or 4 jumps when I solo packed my first round parachute!Then came the squares!OH MAN,How do we pack these freaky things.You mostly learn by doing at first.I watch student after student struggle with packing!The "What If" question they can't seem to get out of their heads.Break it down in steps.As of today the"Rabbit Quick Method" takes no less than 35 steps.The first time I tried to write it all down,it came to 7 pages long(ways too long!)I welcome the new students to take the time(as long as you need and feel comfortable with your pack)to learn to do this?It gets better the more you know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeeeeeeFly 0 #25 April 6, 2004 I am in the US. I have found many out there that do take advantage of packers and getting by without the knowledge of packing but in the end it is not advantageous. I learned by renting a rig and had a rigger show me how once then the rest of the day I practiced. By the end of the day I had a decent pack job then the rigger told me to go jump it... Pretty scary but once you have you realize how to trust yourself and your equipment... ~G~ "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
piisfish 135 #21 April 6, 2004 in my DZ in switzerland, it's like for you in Germany... You jump, you pack ! and it's a good thing.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bosveld 0 #22 April 6, 2004 I started packing before I started jumping. In those days our dropzone also insisted on students packing their parachutes (supervised) from the first jump. Since then we got a King-Air and the student gear is really in high demand. There's no time for packing instruction, the rigs needs to be packed almost always for the next load. Since this is the case, we have people with over 100 jumps who's just not interested in learning to pack. They'd rather pay someone to do it for them. At the boogies you find those people grounded because all the packers are jumping, and these guys can't get the loads in they want. Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #23 April 6, 2004 If you're jumping at a dropzone that forces you to learn to pack very early, you've got a tremendous headstart over many other newbies! I learned to pack during my AFF and it helped me to understand and have confidence in my gear. I think that truly understanding packing and the effect of different techniques is an invaluable skill in our sport. Its not something that you simply learn from taking a packing course. Its more a skill that you figure out through lots of repitition and curiosity. I know that at large dropzones its easy for people to get lost in the crowd and continue to put off learning to pack. However, it is your personal responsibility to learn as much as you can about your gear. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #24 April 6, 2004 We used to learn to pack right away after we began to understand how cool this sport really was.Was 3 or 4 jumps when I solo packed my first round parachute!Then came the squares!OH MAN,How do we pack these freaky things.You mostly learn by doing at first.I watch student after student struggle with packing!The "What If" question they can't seem to get out of their heads.Break it down in steps.As of today the"Rabbit Quick Method" takes no less than 35 steps.The first time I tried to write it all down,it came to 7 pages long(ways too long!)I welcome the new students to take the time(as long as you need and feel comfortable with your pack)to learn to do this?It gets better the more you know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeeeeeeFly 0 #25 April 6, 2004 I am in the US. I have found many out there that do take advantage of packers and getting by without the knowledge of packing but in the end it is not advantageous. I learned by renting a rig and had a rigger show me how once then the rest of the day I practiced. By the end of the day I had a decent pack job then the rigger told me to go jump it... Pretty scary but once you have you realize how to trust yourself and your equipment... ~G~ "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
