crotalus01 0 #1 September 11, 2004 how do i calculate my wingloading? my exit weight is approx 250 lbs and i am jumping a 190. please include an explanation of how to figure it, and please remember i SUCK at math. thx. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #2 September 11, 2004 Got your calculator? Enter your exit weight. Then the division sign. Then the square footage of the canopy you are jumping/want to jump. Then the equal sign. In your case it's about 1.3. If you really have 16 jumps I sure hope you're getting excellent canopy control training... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #3 September 11, 2004 Some help.... http://www.dropzone.com/safety/tools/calculator_wing_load.shtmlSafe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #4 September 11, 2004 Get a bigger canopy before you get hurt, . . please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #5 September 11, 2004 getting plenty of help. i started on a TS-265, did 3 jumps on it then went to a TS-210 for 15 or so jumps. last week i did a jump on that rig, then repacked (with help). checked the cypres and got an error message. only other rig available was a Sabre 190. our TS/A has seen several of my landings and told me to jump it. and he was right, everything happened a bit faster, but no big deal. i flared at the normal height, decent landing (not a standup but good). anyways, thanks for the math equation for calculations. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #6 September 11, 2004 and for the record. i do NOT make low turns. in fact, i got kinda bitched at for not turning low. my weight was not evenly distributed in the saddle and had a built in turn left. didnt notice until about 100 feet. freaked out a bit cause i was headed right into a pipe (with a pointy end i might add). ended up landing okay, kinda hard. BUT i shoulda turned low (flat turns)....heard so much about hook turns etc i was freaked about ANY kind of low turn. in retrospect, it would hav been betterif i had made a flat low turn, i would have had a LOT more outs.... thankfully every skydive is a learning experience. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #7 September 11, 2004 I'm sorry, but as an instructor, your wingloading is simply ridiculous, especially since you're a student. You have no business being at 1.3:1 at 16 jumps. Hell, you don't need to be at that at even 100 jumps. Many people that were injured / killed from low turns never intended to make that turn in the first place. Whomever put you under that canopy needs some serious wall-to-wall counselling, pronto.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #8 September 11, 2004 okay so what wingloading do i need to be at IYO? i do NOT understand wingloading at all so please explain. i get the part about weight vs canopy size but thats it. and i trust my TS/A, he would NOT advance me too quickly. i might have been wrong about my exit weight, i weigh 210 lbs. i assume (from what i have been told) that the rig adds 35 to 40 lbs. as for the 190, it was faster than the 210 i was used to, but not that much faster. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #9 September 11, 2004 If you were at my DZ, you'd be jumping a 300 or 280. Which would put you at .83:1 or .89:1. Here is Brian Germain's recommended canopy progression chart. It's at the bottom of the thread... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=371204 Here's another good thread http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=387407Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #10 September 11, 2004 Quoteand for the record. i do NOT make low turns. in fact, i got kinda bitched at for not turning low. my weight was not evenly distributed in the saddle and had a built in turn left. didnt notice until about 100 feet. freaked out a bit cause i was headed right into a pipe (with a pointy end i might add). ended up landing okay, kinda hard. Put aside anything that you might have done wrongly on the approach. Do you know how to handle a lateral gust on final? I got hit by some at Elsinore last week when I was mildly aggressive with the wingloading and it pointed out some of the less predictable problems with a faster canopy to me. I don't regret the experience, but I'm pushing the WL back a tenth or more for a bit longer. I flared ok in the direction that *was* the wind line, but essentially landed sideways 90 degrees to the right in a crab at a decent speed. Would have been nice to have video or an observer for review - it happened so quickly I'm not sure what I did right and wrong. Was a good time to call it for the day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,061 #11 September 11, 2004 Quotei do NOT make low turns. in fact, i got kinda bitched at for not turning low. my weight was not evenly distributed in the saddle and had a built in turn left. didnt notice until about 100 feet. freaked out a bit cause i was headed right into a pipe (with a pointy end i might add). ended up landing okay, kinda hard. BUT i shoulda turned low (flat turns)....heard so much about hook turns etc i was freaked about ANY kind of low turn. in retrospect, it would hav been betterif i had made a flat low turn, i would have had a LOT more outs.... Do you not see the contradictions in this? The most important thing to take away from this comment is, "In retrospect, it would have been a lot better if..." Now, let's work on saying, "It would be a lot better to..." Can you do these on a 250 sq.ft. canopy? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47 Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #12 September 11, 2004 Wing loading is not the everything measure that some tend to preach by, not talking about anyone specific. However it is one of the measures to be aware of, as is canopy shape. Higher wing loading generally calculates to quicker canopy response. As you mentioned, you don't turn low, but the higher the wingloading the greater the response to a given control input. So when you make an avoidance turn under a <1.0 wingloading the maneuver will be less radical than the same input on a 1.3 loaded canopy. This difference in performance may be enough to save you from physical harm or worse. If you fail to control a landing under a <1.0 loaded canopy and break a leg, a 1.3+ loaded canopy in the same situation could possibly kill you. You jump at a DZ with some excellent canopy pilots, that I'm sure you respect, get their advice and trust what they say. Guys with experience are generally giving advice to keep you from getting hurt, and the guys I know from WTS are going to help you make the right decisions Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #13 September 11, 2004 Quote. didnt notice until about 100 feet. freaked out a bit cause i was headed right into a pipe (with a pointy end i might add). ended up landing okay, kinda hard. BUT i shoulda turned low (flat turns)....heard so much about hook turns etc i was freaked about ANY kind of low turn. in retrospect, it would hav been betterif i had made a flat low turn, i would have had a LOT more outs.... thankfully every skydive is a learning experience. No offense, but that canopy is flying faster than you can think yet. The next time it might be power lines or a tight of-DZ landing. You've got to be able to make a safe landing under your canopy everytime, not just in ideal conditions. Things happen faster under a heavily loaded canopy, and there is less margin for error. I've seen people with a lot more jumps than you die from little things under heavily loaded canopies. It will happen quicker than you think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #14 September 12, 2004 if the main is a 190... what is the Reserve? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #15 September 12, 2004 >it would hav been betterif i had made a flat low turn . . . If you try to to a flat low turn at that loading, with your experience, you will be lucky if you get away with a broken leg. It takes training and experience to do low turns safely. Take the following scenario: You are coming in to land. You were facing into the wind; the wind shifts when you're at 50 feet and starts pushing you towards a hazard. Plus which, of course, you're going to land crosswind now under a small canopy. Your options are: -Land into the hazard crosswind. You'll probably be seriously injured, but that's a good outcome here; you will recover and (probably) upsize your canopy. -Turn into the wind at 50 feet. If all you know how to do is a toggle turn, that's what you will do. And the turn will kill you. Flying a small canopy well requires about as much skill as landing a small airplane after its engine dies. If you don't have training for either one, you're probably going to get hurt. Decide if you want to downsize now or after your first serious injury. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #16 September 12, 2004 okay i put my exit weight wrong, it is 235 jumping a 210. i jumped the 190 last week, i would much rather jump it than the 210 i jumped yesterday. it was an older Javelin, didnt slow an inch when i flared and i slammed in fairly hard (PLF anyone?). second jump was the same thing except i planed out and slid in, still pretty fast. hopefully this week the 210 hybrid i usually jump will have the Cypres fixed having read all these responses i can honestly say that i have no desire to downsize too quickly - in fact i was apprehensive about jumping a 190, and i would not have jumped it except my s&ta told me it was okay for me to. no offense, but i trust him (he knows what my landings are like and my canopy skills/habits) a LOT more than anyone online who doesnt know that info regardless of their jump numbers. at any rate, i will jump the 210 hybrid from here out unless it is not available. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #17 September 12, 2004 i believe the reserve is a 170. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #18 September 13, 2004 just for the record i do know how to do front and rear riser turns, flat turns, and half brake landings. they are all on my A proficiency card and i have been practicing all of them. i am in no way saying i am experienced enough to think that i could deal with that given situation perfectly - i will dscuss it with my instuctors. thanks - i am always looking for hypothetical situations and how to deal with them. my instructors will probably cuss you though - i ask LOTS of questions probably i would go to half brakes to slow my forward motion and (hopefully) sink faster to avoid the hazard, hold it at half then flare and PLF - but that is without asking, just my gut feeling. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sammy- 0 #19 September 13, 2004 If the 190 you are refering to is the blue one (Dane's student rig) then you are right... the reserver is a 170. (It 's the same rig I try to get when I jump) btw.. that old F-111 210 does suck, doesn't it!? I haven't had a decent landing on it yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #20 September 13, 2004 yep, thats the one. i thought it was a 170, just want 100% sure. yeah, that F-111 just doesnt flare...may be time for a new skin on it. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #21 September 13, 2004 Quoteyep, thats the one. i thought it was a 170 210 body weight, 20 jumps and a 170 reserve? Really hope you don't need to use it at sunset into a tight landing area anytime soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #22 September 13, 2004 Quoteyep, thats the one. i thought it was a 170, just want 100% sure. yeah, that F-111 just doesnt flare...may be time for a new skin on it. F-111 canopies start off opening hard and landing softly, and as they wear out, those characteristics reverse. Might be time to cut the lines off that one, fill it with feathers, and use it for a big down comforter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
