Lainey 0 #26 September 5, 2004 haha i know what you're going through! i spent literally about 3 hours at the dropzone the other week trying to propack my sabre, i honestly just could not get it in the bag. I was tired and frustrated and people would come along and show me how to do it and they'd get it in the bag no problem and explain to me that it just takes practice... which i'm sure it does but when you're just starting out you just get so tired of accomplishing nothing. In the end I psycho packed it and got it in, i ended up jumping that packjob (even though it was sloppy) and it opened fine, really slowly but fine - i guess that's good for a sabre though. I'm not saying you should rush out and start psychopacking, i don't know the pros and cons of that vs propack and i definately don't have enough experience to say which is more effective on opening or for the life of your canopy but psycho packing seems to be easier for me to get in the bag. And you shed not a single tear for the things that you didn't need 'Cause you knew you were finally free - Death Cab For Cutie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bunge 0 #27 September 6, 2004 QuoteGot a good site on how to flat pack? nope, sorry BUNGE I don't hate them, I just like us better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bunge 0 #28 September 6, 2004 QuoteAt the end of the video it looks as though he's going to double stow the mouthlock bungee... isn't this a bad idea? I have always been told that it's single stow on mouthlocks only otherwise it's an increased risk of baglock? Can anyone comment on this? I have big hands, so I prefer the large rubber bands, I double wrap all my stowes and have not had any problems. BUNGE I don't hate them, I just like us better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darrenspooner 0 #29 September 6, 2004 I posted on this a few weeks ago, struggling to get my crispy new Sabre in the bag. Someone told me to talk to it, but I just screamed and called it everything under the sun. I tried everything, but then I saw a chap do a really neat trick and it went in the bag perfectly folded. He layed it on the floor, pressed all the air out by laying on it, the usual stuff, then he got off it at the speed of light and s-folded it before it could start to fill up with air again. Its the air that's still in there that causes the problem trying to fold it. Now I can get it in the bag okay and its only done 6 jumps. ***Die with your boots on Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallen 0 #30 September 6, 2004 QuoteAt the end of the video it looks as though he's going to double stow the mouthlock bungee... isn't this a bad idea? I have always been told that it's single stow on mouthlocks only otherwise it's an increased risk of baglock? Can anyone comment on this? IMO, I read somewhere that your stows need to be so tight that you can lift the bag by the lines and they will not unstow. On my main, I use small rubber bands and double wrap each one. Of course, a rigger is the best person to consult for packing techniques. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #31 September 6, 2004 I hesitate to even advise this to a person with your number of jumps but it is helpful to some people with the larger canopies. You could always use a piece of parachute cord (550 cord) to tie it together right before you stick it in the bag. After your folds and after you've squeezed all the air out you can, wrap a piece of cord around the bundle and tie it off with an easily releasable knot. Once you stuff it in the bag, release the cord and pull the cord out. DON'T FORGET TO UNTIE the cord!!! DON'T FORGET TO UNTIE the cord!!! DON'T FORGET TO UNTIE the cord!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Push 0 #32 September 7, 2004 I vote for learning to propack first. That way, if you don't like psychopacking, you have a tried tested and true technique to fall back to. It really isn't that hard, but I still remember the first time I tried to stuff my Triathlon 160 into the bag with my roomies laughing at me. Here's my tricks. First, when you lay on it, lay on it for some time. Get all the air out, and then some. When you're lying on it, use your hands to stuff the fabric on the sides of the canopy under it, this will make the cigar tighter. Remember to roll down when you're doing this, towards the bottom of the canopy, otherwise you'll mess it up. Don't wait too long before starting the folds, you'll see it starting to fill up with air as soon as you stand up. Make the S folds quickly and deliberately. I use my hands and chest to keep it under control, some people use knees, whatever works, just don't let the fabric slide. If you use the conventional S folding method, when you make the first fold, the one where you fold the bottom of the cigar in a little "snake head", put a knee on the head of the snake when you're done with the fold, right where the slider grommets are. This next one is the most important one for me. When you're stacking the canopy on itself, to make every fold reach with one hand behind the canopy and grab the fabric where it closes, where you rolled the tail. This way, you're pinching the fold in the tail that keeps the packjob under control so that stuff doesn't slide out. After that I squeeze the thing in between my chest and knees so that it doesn't deform too much and make the top neat. Then you can carefully reach under the whole thing with one hand, press it up to your chest, put your elbows on the sides of the canopy and lift it up. Use your one free hand to slide the bag under it and spread it open, then slide the bag over the canopy, don't try to put the canopy in the bag. Do the locking stows up immediately, no matter how tired you are. One last thing, don't pack with your hands sweaty. Your hands will stick to the fabric and make it impossible to control. That's how I do it, good luck -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #33 September 10, 2004 Packing has always been fun for me. Well, not always (Skratch is probably smiling right now) - at the beginning it was frustrating. But once I got to the point that I had the same routine it became fun. I always pack for myself, and I always jump my pack-jobs. Occasionally I'll have a friend at the DZ that's doing some independent packing for jump money, and I'll let them pack for me. Most of them are unable to pack my canopy - the bag and container are too small for the canopy - it's cruel of me, but I smile when professional packers give up on my rig and walk away So I pack myself. The cool thing is that I have this routine. And on about 50% of my packjobs I experiment and change just one little thing. Sometimes it makes the opening better, and sometimes it makes it worse. But it's cool to see one tiny change make such a difference. For instance, I've found that the way the rubber bands are twisted around the line stows makes a difference. If the change is better, I try to incorporate it into my routine - that part is hard, because once I have a routine, it's hard for me to change it. I've made one or two good friends just asking for packing advice, and you will too. I still watch the packing videos because there are a lot of good ideas to try in there. And I still watch other people pack and ask them about their technique.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Girlfalldown 0 #34 September 10, 2004 Hey Lori, I know exactly what you mean about packing! When I first started skydiving I used to take a really long time to pack, sometimes ending in tears of frustration. I finally just said screw it and hired a packer until I got a more reasonably sized canopy. Now it seems silly because it only takes a few minutes to pack. I just wanted to make a comment on psycho packing. I have nothing against it and think it's a fine technique but if you try it please be careful when you're first learning it to make sure your slider doesn't come down the lines at all. I was learning how to psycho pack and had one of the worse openings of my life from it for that very reason. It was totally user error of course. I don't pack that way anymore but know many that do with good results. Just keep an eye on that slider! Good luck! -------------- (Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverton 0 #35 September 10, 2004 Packing is fun!! It's my only reason for jumping, the idea of a nice packjob after you land. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LGreg34 0 #36 September 10, 2004 Lol.........smart ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LGreg34 0 #37 September 10, 2004 Thank you, and thanks again to everyone for their replies. I've decided to master regular pro packing first and then I might try various techniques. Last Saturday I hired a packer all day because my hands were sore, my thumb was brusied from double stowing and both knees were brusied . At 42 it's not much fun being on your hands and knees for long stretches of time. I'm sure (as everyone has said) that it will get easier with time. Doing the reverse S folds has definitely helped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #38 September 10, 2004 A few comments about knees. First, I've seen more than one person whip out knee pads for the packing floor. Some of the floors are pretty hard, so there's no shame in it. Also, there are packing techniques that involve you getting on your knees very little. For instance, rather than kneeling on the grommets to begin your s-folds, you can stand on them with your toes and crouch. Again, watch other people and they'll give you ideas. Your hands will get mangled - no way around that unless you learn to pack with your feet.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LGreg34 0 #39 September 10, 2004 I appreciate all the tips. Knee pads sound like a good solution. I see a lot of people at the DZ with permanent brown spots right below the knee. Good tip! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mad47 0 #40 September 10, 2004 Like in anything else in this sport, mental side of packing is as important as physical. I used to hate packing too especially on 20 min calls on hot Texas summer days. A lot of practice will help you to learn how to put this thing in d-bag faster but will not help to love packing. Think about packing as essential part of skydive. Your canopy is your friend, it opens and brings you to the ground all the time (well, most of times). Try to approach packing with good attitude and it will be much easier. In addition, the chances to pack a malfunction are greater if you are angry or frustrated. If you have a new slippery canopy, it is probably a good idea to hire a packed for first 40-50 jumps until the fabric becomes more "packer-friendly". Finally, develop a habit of packing your main right after you land. This will help you to avoid packing in a hurry rushing for a dirt dive or next load. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LGreg34 0 #41 September 10, 2004 You are right. I am beginning to calm down about it. When I posted, I was practicing for the first time totally unassisted alone, at home and it was either post, or go outside and scream at the top of my lungs and have the cops called....lol. I'm better now, and thank you for the advise. It all makes perfect sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phil6086 0 #42 September 13, 2004 I would never recommend psycho packs to anyone I was a big supporter of it cause I could get a brand new zero p canopy in the bag very easy. Could pack it that way in under ten minutes. That all changed with severe line twists and the canopy doing a bad right handed dive was not recoverable so I chopped. I learned how to do a good pro pack. I take the d-bag and put it under the canopy before the s folds then squeeze the air out one more time then put right knee on canopy start first s fold put right knee on that then squeeze all final air out through the last s fold then canopy goes in the bag left or right corner with out to much difficulty. The bag under the canopy I saw from someone who's done this alot longer than most. Asked my coach and was given the ok works real well. It is frowned on to do psycho packs at my home dz and I agree 100% Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firstime 0 #43 September 13, 2004 another good tip>>>> If the little freakin new zp doesnt want to go in the bag, cut the damn thing in half. Thats what I felt like doing at one time and could not believe the profanities I was calling this inanimate object. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #44 September 13, 2004 QuoteI would never recommend psycho packs to anyone I was a big supporter of it cause I could get a brand new zero p canopy in the bag very easy. Could pack it that way in under ten minutes. That all changed with severe line twists and the canopy doing a bad right handed dive was not recoverable so I chopped. I learned how to do a good pro pack. I take the d-bag and put it under the canopy before the s folds then squeeze the air out one more time then put right knee on canopy start first s fold put right knee on that then squeeze all final air out through the last s fold then canopy goes in the bag left or right corner with out to much difficulty. The bag under the canopy I saw from someone who's done this alot longer than most. Asked my coach and was given the ok works real well. It is frowned on to do psycho packs at my home dz and I agree 100% Fooey. I've got over 400 jumps, all psycho-packed, including on ellpiticals with a pretty decent wing-loading. The only thing different about a psycho-pack vs a pro-pack is how it goes in the bag. If you're not careful and symmetrical, you'll have problems no matter what. Line-twists are usually caused by body-position or improper stows anyway.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LGreg34 0 #45 September 13, 2004 Ahahaha.......my sentiments exactly! I'm getting there slowly but surely but damn, it taking me to the brink of insanity at times! I'd really like to have a nice, peaceful, wonderful, loving relationship with this canopy but it truly is making it tough for me to do that at the moment! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #46 September 17, 2004 And I just got back from packing 375 rigs in 7 days. Yep packing sucks. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeryde13 0 #47 September 17, 2004 yup...no doubt packing sucks...but you gotta doit. i got a new 190 and couldn,t pack it for about 50 -60 jumps onit, it gets easier the more it breaks in too i think........ but don,t get mad at the parachute, you have to luuuuuuuvvvv the parachut and treat it nicely._________________________________________ people see me as a challenge to their balance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LGreg34 0 #48 September 17, 2004 Lol........it IS getting easier for me with the use of reverse S folds. I think the same as you; I need to LOVE my parachute and treat, but all I could do there for awhile was call it all kinds of profanities! Hopefully, I'm over that now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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Push 0 #32 September 7, 2004 I vote for learning to propack first. That way, if you don't like psychopacking, you have a tried tested and true technique to fall back to. It really isn't that hard, but I still remember the first time I tried to stuff my Triathlon 160 into the bag with my roomies laughing at me. Here's my tricks. First, when you lay on it, lay on it for some time. Get all the air out, and then some. When you're lying on it, use your hands to stuff the fabric on the sides of the canopy under it, this will make the cigar tighter. Remember to roll down when you're doing this, towards the bottom of the canopy, otherwise you'll mess it up. Don't wait too long before starting the folds, you'll see it starting to fill up with air as soon as you stand up. Make the S folds quickly and deliberately. I use my hands and chest to keep it under control, some people use knees, whatever works, just don't let the fabric slide. If you use the conventional S folding method, when you make the first fold, the one where you fold the bottom of the cigar in a little "snake head", put a knee on the head of the snake when you're done with the fold, right where the slider grommets are. This next one is the most important one for me. When you're stacking the canopy on itself, to make every fold reach with one hand behind the canopy and grab the fabric where it closes, where you rolled the tail. This way, you're pinching the fold in the tail that keeps the packjob under control so that stuff doesn't slide out. After that I squeeze the thing in between my chest and knees so that it doesn't deform too much and make the top neat. Then you can carefully reach under the whole thing with one hand, press it up to your chest, put your elbows on the sides of the canopy and lift it up. Use your one free hand to slide the bag under it and spread it open, then slide the bag over the canopy, don't try to put the canopy in the bag. Do the locking stows up immediately, no matter how tired you are. One last thing, don't pack with your hands sweaty. Your hands will stick to the fabric and make it impossible to control. That's how I do it, good luck -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #33 September 10, 2004 Packing has always been fun for me. Well, not always (Skratch is probably smiling right now) - at the beginning it was frustrating. But once I got to the point that I had the same routine it became fun. I always pack for myself, and I always jump my pack-jobs. Occasionally I'll have a friend at the DZ that's doing some independent packing for jump money, and I'll let them pack for me. Most of them are unable to pack my canopy - the bag and container are too small for the canopy - it's cruel of me, but I smile when professional packers give up on my rig and walk away So I pack myself. The cool thing is that I have this routine. And on about 50% of my packjobs I experiment and change just one little thing. Sometimes it makes the opening better, and sometimes it makes it worse. But it's cool to see one tiny change make such a difference. For instance, I've found that the way the rubber bands are twisted around the line stows makes a difference. If the change is better, I try to incorporate it into my routine - that part is hard, because once I have a routine, it's hard for me to change it. I've made one or two good friends just asking for packing advice, and you will too. I still watch the packing videos because there are a lot of good ideas to try in there. And I still watch other people pack and ask them about their technique.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Girlfalldown 0 #34 September 10, 2004 Hey Lori, I know exactly what you mean about packing! When I first started skydiving I used to take a really long time to pack, sometimes ending in tears of frustration. I finally just said screw it and hired a packer until I got a more reasonably sized canopy. Now it seems silly because it only takes a few minutes to pack. I just wanted to make a comment on psycho packing. I have nothing against it and think it's a fine technique but if you try it please be careful when you're first learning it to make sure your slider doesn't come down the lines at all. I was learning how to psycho pack and had one of the worse openings of my life from it for that very reason. It was totally user error of course. I don't pack that way anymore but know many that do with good results. Just keep an eye on that slider! Good luck! -------------- (Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #35 September 10, 2004 Packing is fun!! It's my only reason for jumping, the idea of a nice packjob after you land. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LGreg34 0 #36 September 10, 2004 Lol.........smart ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LGreg34 0 #37 September 10, 2004 Thank you, and thanks again to everyone for their replies. I've decided to master regular pro packing first and then I might try various techniques. Last Saturday I hired a packer all day because my hands were sore, my thumb was brusied from double stowing and both knees were brusied . At 42 it's not much fun being on your hands and knees for long stretches of time. I'm sure (as everyone has said) that it will get easier with time. Doing the reverse S folds has definitely helped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #38 September 10, 2004 A few comments about knees. First, I've seen more than one person whip out knee pads for the packing floor. Some of the floors are pretty hard, so there's no shame in it. Also, there are packing techniques that involve you getting on your knees very little. For instance, rather than kneeling on the grommets to begin your s-folds, you can stand on them with your toes and crouch. Again, watch other people and they'll give you ideas. Your hands will get mangled - no way around that unless you learn to pack with your feet.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LGreg34 0 #39 September 10, 2004 I appreciate all the tips. Knee pads sound like a good solution. I see a lot of people at the DZ with permanent brown spots right below the knee. Good tip! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #40 September 10, 2004 Like in anything else in this sport, mental side of packing is as important as physical. I used to hate packing too especially on 20 min calls on hot Texas summer days. A lot of practice will help you to learn how to put this thing in d-bag faster but will not help to love packing. Think about packing as essential part of skydive. Your canopy is your friend, it opens and brings you to the ground all the time (well, most of times). Try to approach packing with good attitude and it will be much easier. In addition, the chances to pack a malfunction are greater if you are angry or frustrated. If you have a new slippery canopy, it is probably a good idea to hire a packed for first 40-50 jumps until the fabric becomes more "packer-friendly". Finally, develop a habit of packing your main right after you land. This will help you to avoid packing in a hurry rushing for a dirt dive or next load. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LGreg34 0 #41 September 10, 2004 You are right. I am beginning to calm down about it. When I posted, I was practicing for the first time totally unassisted alone, at home and it was either post, or go outside and scream at the top of my lungs and have the cops called....lol. I'm better now, and thank you for the advise. It all makes perfect sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phil6086 0 #42 September 13, 2004 I would never recommend psycho packs to anyone I was a big supporter of it cause I could get a brand new zero p canopy in the bag very easy. Could pack it that way in under ten minutes. That all changed with severe line twists and the canopy doing a bad right handed dive was not recoverable so I chopped. I learned how to do a good pro pack. I take the d-bag and put it under the canopy before the s folds then squeeze the air out one more time then put right knee on canopy start first s fold put right knee on that then squeeze all final air out through the last s fold then canopy goes in the bag left or right corner with out to much difficulty. The bag under the canopy I saw from someone who's done this alot longer than most. Asked my coach and was given the ok works real well. It is frowned on to do psycho packs at my home dz and I agree 100% Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #43 September 13, 2004 another good tip>>>> If the little freakin new zp doesnt want to go in the bag, cut the damn thing in half. Thats what I felt like doing at one time and could not believe the profanities I was calling this inanimate object. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #44 September 13, 2004 QuoteI would never recommend psycho packs to anyone I was a big supporter of it cause I could get a brand new zero p canopy in the bag very easy. Could pack it that way in under ten minutes. That all changed with severe line twists and the canopy doing a bad right handed dive was not recoverable so I chopped. I learned how to do a good pro pack. I take the d-bag and put it under the canopy before the s folds then squeeze the air out one more time then put right knee on canopy start first s fold put right knee on that then squeeze all final air out through the last s fold then canopy goes in the bag left or right corner with out to much difficulty. The bag under the canopy I saw from someone who's done this alot longer than most. Asked my coach and was given the ok works real well. It is frowned on to do psycho packs at my home dz and I agree 100% Fooey. I've got over 400 jumps, all psycho-packed, including on ellpiticals with a pretty decent wing-loading. The only thing different about a psycho-pack vs a pro-pack is how it goes in the bag. If you're not careful and symmetrical, you'll have problems no matter what. Line-twists are usually caused by body-position or improper stows anyway.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LGreg34 0 #45 September 13, 2004 Ahahaha.......my sentiments exactly! I'm getting there slowly but surely but damn, it taking me to the brink of insanity at times! I'd really like to have a nice, peaceful, wonderful, loving relationship with this canopy but it truly is making it tough for me to do that at the moment! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #46 September 17, 2004 And I just got back from packing 375 rigs in 7 days. Yep packing sucks. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeryde13 0 #47 September 17, 2004 yup...no doubt packing sucks...but you gotta doit. i got a new 190 and couldn,t pack it for about 50 -60 jumps onit, it gets easier the more it breaks in too i think........ but don,t get mad at the parachute, you have to luuuuuuuvvvv the parachut and treat it nicely._________________________________________ people see me as a challenge to their balance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LGreg34 0 #48 September 17, 2004 Lol........it IS getting easier for me with the use of reverse S folds. I think the same as you; I need to LOVE my parachute and treat, but all I could do there for awhile was call it all kinds of profanities! Hopefully, I'm over that now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
