Flaring

[Witelli 0]

Hi all,
I just completed my AFF4. Haven't even come close to landing on my feet but I think I know why. I seem to consistently flare too early and I don't know why I do it. Anyone else have this problem? My arms start the flare, then my brain says "wait it's too early", then my arms stop and my brain reminds my arms "once you start flaring, you'd better follow through". Does anyone have any suggestions? On my last jump, I came into a nice wind (10-14mph)and when I flared I think I went up a few feet, then straight down from about 8ft. Do you flare differently according to the wind speed/direction? On that last one I think I would have landed sweet if I waited until my feet touched the blades of grass and then flared. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I would like some ideas to run by my instructor. Thanks.

[Frenchy68 0]

There's been many threads about this, including one currently active in Safety & Training.
Best thing to do: have your instructors look at your landings and comment on them.
Don't worry, you're not the first one with this problem.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Eule 0]

Caution: I am also a student; nearly everybody here will know more about this than I do. Having said
that:

- My instructors did tell me something to do when I flare and then think I've flared too high. You might
ask your instructors directly "what do I do if I think I've flared too high" and see if they have a
recommended procedure. They may just say "follow through" or they may tell you something else
you can try.

- I have been in charge of my own flare (no cue over the radio) for the last few jumps and on a
couple, I consciously made myself wait less than a second or so to start flaring after I first
thought "Maybe I should start flaring now", and it seemed to work out OK. Also, I tend to
think "hands up - hands up - hands up" to myself as I come down through the last several
feet before the flare, which seems to help keep me from moving my hands too early. This may
or may not work for you!

- I haven't stood one up yet either. I have progressed to where I usually land standing up, fall over,
then stand back up again, but I haven't done a straight stand-up landing yet. So don't worry too
much about it. :)

- Have you been able to watch other students, that are jumping about the same size canopy, land
and flare themselves? I think it's a little hard to correlate what things look like from the side (you
watching another student) and from the air (you looking down and deciding when to flare yourself),
but maybe it will help. If you can't see the landing area from where you normally hang out, you might
ask if you can observe some landings from a safe place near the landing area.

Again, I am also a student, so discount my advice appropriately. Any crazy ideas you pick up from here
should ALWAYS get discussed with your instructors. Preferably before and not during the skydive. :)

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[kevinwhelan 0]

Quote

"once you start flaring, you'd better follow through".

Check this with your instructors. I have no problem starting a flare, say going to a quarter brakes and holding at that if I feel I am a bit too high and just apply more pressure to the toggles as I near the ground.
As far as I know the problem is, If you start to flare and then let the toggles up, This will cause the canopy to surge forward in a dive.
Keep at it and once you nail the timeing, flaring will just come naturaly as part of the canopy flight

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[sparrella 0]

I'm a relatively new skydiver and instructor, but I have thousands of hours as a flight instructor and have noticed some similaraties between landing a parachute and a Boeing 767.

Two things happen during the flare. First, as the steering lines are pulled, the canopy changes shape and slows down, reducing its forward velocity. Second, as the canopy slows, the skydiver continues moving forward, causing the canopy to pitch up slighly, increase its angle of attack and lift, reducing its vertical velocity. Get a copy of Brian Germain's book if you want a better explanation.

When, how fast, and how far you pull down on the steering lines, as well as the design of the canopy and density altitude will determine how the energy is transferred. But as a canopy pilot, you can only control when you flare, and how fast you move your arms.

So now we have to answer those questions, when and how fast. The answer, as I indicated, is based on a very complex equation, which you can't possibly do in your head. Pilots rely on their eyes (and radio altimeter in large A/C) to determine their altitude (flare height) and rate of descent. My experience tells me that most students are not looking at the right place to determine their altitude and descdent rate.

Your brain has an amazing ability to determine altitude and velocity (vertical and horizontal). It does this essentially be noting the relative size of the objects as well as the rate at which the size of those objects change. Pick up a cognitive psychology text book for a better explanation. All you have to do is give your brain lots of things to look at. The more objects it has, the more information it gets.

The bottom line is that you have to look out at the horizon, not the grass under your feet. I take my students (canopy and airplane) into the field and do deep knee bends looking straight out and straignt dowo to prove the point.

The technique that works best for me is to scan the landing area while I am on final, looking out at the horizon and at my intended landing spot, and to force myself to begin looking straight out at the horizon as I begin my flare. Your brain will learn fast.

Fall in peace

The greatest enemy of the truth is not a lie, the greatest enemy of the truth is a myth.

[okalb 78]

Obviously, without seeing you land it is hard to say for sure. There are lots of things that can cause this. What I have found to be the most common cause of flaring too high is very simple. Newer jumpers have a tendency to look down instead of out in front of them. It is very hard to judge your flare when you are looking at where you have just been instead of where you are going. Try to really think about looking out in front of you and see if that helps.

-OK

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[peregrinerose 0]

I am nowhere near qualified to give flaring advice. Just wanted to let you know you aren't alone by any stretch of the imagination! At 7 jumps, you only had 7 chances to practice flaring/landing. For me, it took 20 jumps of practice to get it right. My problem was flaring slightly unevenly and not completely, but there are a million other reasons too, talk to your instructor on that.

You aren't alone though

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[riggerrob 558]

"

Quote

Hi all,
I just completed my AFF4. Haven't even come close to landing on my feet but I think I know why. I seem to consistently flare too early and I don't know why I do it. Anyone else have this problem? My arms start the flare, then my brain says "wait it's too early", then my arms stop and my brain reminds my arms "once you start flaring, you'd better follow through".

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Some schools teach a two stage or even three stage flare, because while a simplified -all in one shot - flare works on student canopies, but faster parachutes require a more subtle, gradual flare.

These subtlies are lost on students who flare 8 feet too high.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is similar to stopping a (non-ABS) car on ice. If you just stomp on the pedal, the car will spin out of control, whereas if you apply gentle pressure, the car will gracefully slow to a halt.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"On that last one I think I would have landed sweet if I waited until my feet touched the blades of grass and then flared."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Unless you are jumping in tall prairie grass, that makes as much sense as waiting until your car hits the brick wall before touching the brake pedal!
Hah!
Hah!
Hah!

• Quote

[chutem 0]

Try searching "Spizzzarko landing", he has some landing advise that I found helpfull. Don't worry it gets easier with practice.
James

[Witelli 0]

Unless you are jumping in tall prairie grass, that makes as much sense as waiting until your car hits the brick wall before touching the brake pedal!
Hah!
Hah!
Hah!

[Jeth 0]

Don't worry about it too much. I didn't stand one up till jump #17. I tried on earlier jumps and ended up twisting my ankle pretty good. You will learn to feel the flare more and then you'll know when to do it. I think most students flare too high (I did). What helped me was to hear on the radio "not yet!" over and over till it was time. I would look out (not straight down!) at the ground and try to remember what it looked like when it was the correct time. After I got off radio, I would say that to myself when I felt the urge to pull down and I knew I was too high.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll get it eventually. p.s. Definitely flare before your feet hit the grass, though. That will be too late for it to work. Ask your instructors.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[xine100 0]

I had the same problem until one of my instructors told me to flare on the THIRD "Oh Fuck!". Haven't had a problem since!

[Superman32 0]

Quote

I had the same problem until one of my instructors told me to flare on the THIRD "Oh Fuck!". Haven't had a problem since!

That's really funny

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[Spizzzarko 0]

Thanks man. Here's some more of my thoughts.

I posted this in another thread.


I think when people are talking about staged flares they are just passing on bad information! Think of it this way. in it's simplist form there are 3 areas to a landing.

1. Approach
2. Plane out
3. stopping

To transition from your approach to plane out you need to give input to the canopy wether it be toggles or rears. Now do you stop from there? NO. You have to give more input to the canopy to transition from plane out to stopping correct? Now I'm going to introduce a little bit more of a radical concept here, so everyone take a second and catch your breath.....


Let's first of all get rid of this concept of a two or three staged flare. You don't come in flare halfway, stop, and then flare the rest of the way do you? If so you are doing it wrong. Does that method work? Yes, sometimes, but we are a little more advanced than that, aren't we? I believed this concept was brought about by the ld timers who were transitioning from F-111 to ZEPO canopy's. They used this when their canopy's would ballon up when they flared all the way like they were used to with their F-111's.
Let's take the three area's that I spoke of earlier and make them into just one.

1. Landing

You need to start thinking this way because, when you are transitioning to smaller faster canopy's, landing doesn't just happen when your altitude reaches zero. Many of the high speed low drag dudes here will probably agree with me that landing for them starts just after they get everything stowed away after opening. Watch them, and talk to them, and you will soon see that every manuever they make is to set up for landing. There's really no more "Playing Around" when you get to small canopy's. Now let's get back to Landing. Your approach flare and stopping should all be one smooth movement. Only flare as much as you need to, to maintain the altitude above the ground that you want.

Try looking at the horizon during this part of you landing. I want you to standup right now and look at a far door knob or something out your window on the horizon. Now stand on your toes, and then back on your flat feet. Do you see the difference in your sight picture? Now how much have you actually moved? 3 to 4 inches if that.

Now that you have that mastered, think about continuing your flare only as much as you need to, so that your sight picture doesn't change! I told you it was going to get radicle! Now that we are flying flat and level over the gound we eventuall need to stop. Well just keep flaring, and maintaining your sight picture. Eventually you will have flared so much that your canopy will no longer beable to produce the amount of lift required to hold your body in the air. This is usually when you put your feet down on the ground.

I can't tell you how many people I see that don't fly their canopy to it's full potential, and then complain that their canopy doesn't have enough flare to support their fat ass's, and that they need to get a Velocity because it has a more powerfull flare

Learn to flare your canopy all of the way. You should not have to run out your landings very much if you are flaring it correctly, even on low wind to no wind days.

If you change your thought process, and learn to fly your canopy to it's fullest then you will be unstopable!