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brycew

LASIK and sky diving?

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Since this thread has evolved to discussing different treatments I'll jump in. I'm near sighted and thus wear contacts while jumping.

I found out from my eye doctor (and subsequently researched) a new treatment for nearsightedness called Corneal Refractive Therapy. I'm starting it this Monday.

The gist of it is that you wear a special hard contact while sleeping each night and it presses down a bit on the cornea, fixing your sight so you can go through the next day with no glasses or contacts. You have to wear them again every night though.

The pluses are that you don't have any cutting done to your eye, all the effects are reversible, and it's cheaper than LASIK (sub 1000/both eyes + 400/year replacement lenses).

You can read about it here if you want : http://www.paragoncrt.com/


Bill

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Good luck with it Bill...

I hope it works for you, but I tried it as well years ago. (It's been around for a while);) And didn't have a lot of success...kind of like 'braces' for you eyes....a night retainer.

For me anyway, my nearsightedness would begin returning only hours after removing the contacts.
Since I was working evenings at the time, by the time I went to work I needed correction to drive there.


But things may have come a LONG way since the stone age...keep us updated with your progress!










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I had Lasik 5 yrs ago. My prescription was -12.75 with a 1.5 astigmatism ie:blind. Great procedure.

I like that adB|



Gotcha beat, Katee -- I was -13.75 OS, -13.25 OD with -1.50 astigmatism. Had my surgeries in March of 2000. I am currently 20/40 OS, 20/15OD (binocular vision setup), for a combined 20/20. I have less starring then I did with glasses or contacts.

My decision was not an easy one and was reached after much research, interviews with (and OF) doctors and required multiple followup visits. I have written in detail on this before, both here and on the wreck, so I'll not go into it now and just wrap up by stating that it was the best damn $2500 I've ever spent.



Ya got me beat on the price too! Mine was a whopping $5500..I was "experimental" for Dr. Spivak in Colorado since he hadn't done Lasik on a patient with my script yet. Left eye: 53 seconds on Monday..he monitored the healing process then did my Right eye: 61 seconds on that Friday..I was a one-eyed padiddle that week..but I could pour my coffee with one eye closed:D Green was greener..blues were bluer...the shape of leaves were sharper..my world truly changed after that procedure.





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Yea I have been thinking about it but there's this BULLSHIT factor in the military . I have to get it approved



The Military DID mine.

i know they do it but there is a huge waiting list and then I have to pay for my stay in (colorado I think) I can save money by gettin git done HERE.


Its been about a year since I looked into it I guess its time to do it again
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i know they do it but there is a huge waiting list and then I have to pay for my stay in (colorado I think) I can save money by gettin git done HERE.


Its been about a year since I looked into it I guess its time to do it again



Mine was done at Womack at Ft.Bragg.

The list was short....From the time I got my papers signed till they cut on me was a mth or so.

This was years ago and it was still listed as a "test" program.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Bit of Trivia...Who and How was RK 'discovered'?



I thought it was Russian, but never looked too closely. I had an optometrist tell me I would be a 'good candidate' back in 1990. I thought he read me as an easy mark because I had only been wearing glasses for 2 years at that point.

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Looking around the web, US$1800 seems to be an "average" per-eye price for LASIK. That's like
90 jump tickets, or around half a new rig! Get some $20 reading glasses * and jump the rest. :)



With Lasik you still need those $20 reading glasses. The proceedure is to fix far vision, and it does so at a cost of close reading range.

Is ok - $20 is a lot less than what I was paying for thin wire frames and prescription sunglasses. 3 sets of each is about what I paid for the surgery.

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Looking around the web, US$1800 seems to be an "average" per-eye price for LASIK. That's like
90 jump tickets, or around half a new rig! Get some $20 reading glasses * and jump the rest. :)



With Lasik you still need those $20 reading glasses. The proceedure is to fix far vision, and it does so at a cost of close reading range.

Is ok - $20 is a lot less than what I was paying for thin wire frames and prescription sunglasses. 3 sets of each is about what I paid for the surgery.



And you base this on what?

As I stated earlier, I had it done in 2000, had already had the battles with presbyopia due to my advanced age. I have needed NO corrective lenses of any sort since healing. I read just fine without any aid, thank you very much.

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

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Bit of Trivia...Who and How was RK 'discovered'?



I thought it was Russian, but never looked too closely. I had an optometrist tell me I would be a 'good candidate' back in 1990. I thought he read me as an easy mark because I had only been wearing glasses for 2 years at that point.






***

We have a WINNER!:D

It was a Russian truck driver that went through the wind screen of his truck...following surgery to pluck the glass shards from his peepers...he could SEE without corrective eyewear!


A bit of experimentation and it became a real common operation performed there. Fix the eyes and ya don't have to provide the 'people' with glasses. A cost effective move on their part at the time.

I actually saw a facility where they did/do the operations in Moscow. it's like a big 'lazy susan' that rotates 6 patients in turn under the knife.

I remember going to school at the UofI in the mis 70's and they were doing RK experiments on pigs eyes....:|










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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And you base this on what?



Lasik does nothing to prevent the problem that leads to people needing reading glasses with older age. The cornea gets thicker and eventually is too hard to focus for close range. Can't speak to your condition, and I'm still young. But when I did the preexam in 2000, the doctor said I was basically getting rid of glasses for 10+ years, had I been 40 he would have advised against the procedure for my moderate correction. (given my outdoor bent, might still have been worthwhile)

Could be worse - at least we won't need bifocals. My mom has been hating those.

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and I thought i was blind.... :)
Didn't you also go to canada to get the most high tech "tracking" for the surgery?



Nope, didn't have to -- the Doc I chose had gotten the latest VISX tracking laser and has kept up with the developments. He has also written a paper on surgical intervention of sever myopes; I am one of the cases in the paper.

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

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And you base this on what?



Lasik does nothing to prevent the problem that leads to people needing reading glasses with older age. The cornea gets thicker and eventually is too hard to focus for close range. Can't speak to your condition, and I'm still young. But when I did the preexam in 2000, the doctor said I was basically getting rid of glasses for 10+ years, had I been 40 he would have advised against the procedure for my moderate correction. (given my outdoor bent, might still have been worthwhile)

Could be worse - at least we won't need bifocals. My mom has been hating those.



Precisely -- hence your statement stating that a person "will need glasses for reading" is wrong. (Emphasis added by me.)

While I don't agree with Peregrinrose' attitude regarding surgerical intervention (and what I perceive is her lack of empathy), I wholeheartedly agree with her stance that blanket statements of your type are not only misleading, but often spring from what Alexander Pope called "a dangerous thing", i.e. a little knowledge. The additional info you just provided shows you have more kowledge than your first post indicated, but you are still falling short of understanding presbyopia and its affects.

Bifocals aren't all that bad anywho -- hell, I got my first pair when I was in third grade!

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

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One should read that site, but bear in mind that they are a distant minority of patients. Pick your surgeon with some care, not just find the ad in the paper.



I agree completely with regard to the surgicaleyes web site, and tell my patients just that. To made an educated decision, you have to know the kinds of things that CAN happen, even though the risks are remote.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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telling people they shouldn't say "i think you should have lasik" seems kinda picky. have you never said to anyone "oh you HAVE to try skydiving! it'll change your life!"? it's an opinion...an enthusiastic one.



Telling someone "I had LASIK and it was the best thing I ever did for myself!" is giving your personal experience. Telling someone "I think that YOU should have LASIK" is giving medical advice without knowing the ocular health of the person and whether or not they are a candidate. Not all people are candidates. Doctors have been sued for doing exactly this. And that is why I'm so careful to be generic in statements rather than giving specific advice other than 'see your eye doc' :)
No, I have never told someone they should skydive. That's their call, not mine. But even if I did, saying 'you should go jump out of a plane' is not medical advice so does not fall under medical practice legislation.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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of course, if everyone had lasik, then optometrists wouldn't be selling so many contacts or glasses.



Honestly, my specialty is low vision rehab, so my practice doesn't revolve around either glasses or contacts. I make more money doing pre/post op work for LASIK than on any glasses/contacts. I also get paid a fortune to fix problems induced by refractice surgery, usually with custom RGP contact lenses.

My job is to enable my patients to make informed decisions. The most important part of my job is patient education and unless there is a vision threatening issue that must be treated, the choice is up to the patient, not me. I give the pros/cons of every procedure in the exam room. Here, there is only anecdotal advantages to LASIK, the pros. I am only trying to give a more balanced perspective than only hearing one side of the story. I don't need to go through the advantages, as they have already been well covered both by all of you ;)


Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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CRT is also called Orthokeratology (terminology varies by geographical location). Like surgery, it isn't for everyone. There are limits to how much myopia can be treated... those who were -13.00 for example, wouldn't even be close to being candidates for CRT. Those that can not have LASIK due to dry eye, large pupils, etc, are often very good candidates for CRT.

Of course there are risks to everything, eh? ;) Risk of CRT can be corneal changes from not enough oxygen, discomfort with the contacts in (though not as big an issue since you're asleep with them), and having some residual refractive error. Nothing is perfect.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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of course, if everyone had lasik, then optometrists wouldn't be selling so many contacts or glasses.



Honestly, my specialty is low vision rehab, so my practice doesn't revolve around either glasses or contacts. I make more money doing pre/post op work for LASIK than on any glasses/contacts. I also get paid a fortune to fix problems induced by refractice surgery, usually with custom RGP contact lenses.

My job is to enable my patients to make informed decisions. The most important part of my job is patient education and unless there is a vision threatening issue that must be treated, the choice is up to the patient, not me. I give the pros/cons of every procedure in the exam room. Here, there is only anecdotal advantages to LASIK, the pros. I am only trying to give a more balanced perspective than only hearing one side of the story. I don't need to go through the advantages, as they have already been well covered both by all of you ;)


Jen



Well, I certainly have a bit better opinion of your contributions to this subject now that you have explained as above. My only question is why didn't you make it clearer where you were coming from when you first posted your negative thoughts about LASIK (and not just in this thread).

You have come off looking like someone with a grudge and/or an axe to grind; I think this is what prompted the comments about not making as much money selling corrective lenses.

I stand by any and all advice I have ever offerred on LASIK, as it has always been slanted toward the "do the research, know what you're getting into, and don't expect miracles" side.

I'm glad to see we are really on the same page.

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

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Precisely -- hence your statement stating that a person "will need glasses for reading" is wrong. (Emphasis added by me.)

While I don't agree with Peregrinrose' attitude regarding surgerical intervention (and what I perceive is her lack of empathy), I wholeheartedly agree with her stance that blanket statements of your type are not only misleading, but often spring from what Alexander Pope called "a dangerous thing", i.e. a little knowledge. The additional info you just provided shows you have more kowledge than your first post indicated, but you are still falling short of understanding presbyopia and its affects.



For the first part, presybyopia is inevitable, the way to avoid it is drop dead before the age of 40.

Assuming that both eyes are corrected perfectly for distance (glasses/contacts/refractive surgery), the natural lens of the eye changes shape to change the focal distance from optical infinity (6+ feet) to up close. Just like changing the focus on a camera or binoculars to adjust for the distance away the object is.

The older you get, the less plastic the lens of the eye is, so it can not change shape as easily. The farther past 40, the less it changes shape, typically around 60-65, the shape doesn't change much at all. That's what bifocals or reading glasses do... optically change how light bends since the natural lens of the eye can no longer do so.

So yes, assuming that both eyes are corrected for distance perfectly with LASIK, sooner or later reading glasses will be needed. This varies by age, health, body type/arm length, lighting available, pupil size, and a lot of other things, but it does happen.

If the eyes are slightly undercorrected at distance, it delays needing bifocals. There is also monovision correction done with refractive surgery or contacts, where one eye focuses at distance, the other at near. I'm not a big fan of this since it does decrease depth perception.

About my lack of empathy. I'm sorry if my words come across that way, my patients in real life would emphatically differ with you ;) My goal here is not to give the warm and fuzzies, my goal is to give a more balanced source of information.

Yes, a vast majority of my refractive surgery patients are absolutely delighted and see 20/20 or better in each eye without correction and have absolutely no health affects at all. All of them also experienced an increase in dry eye sensitivity to varying degrees, but again, a very small number feels that this actually affects their lives in any functional way. Yes, a fair number experience decreased contrast sensitivity/increased glare at night, but most don't consider it a big deal. All of them knew exactly what could happen. They also know that I only work with extremely talented surgeons with a proven track record of exemplary results to keep these risks as low as possible.

Some of you quoted prices... these vary greatly by prescription and cornea. I would hope that you wouldn't shop around for the cheapest triple bypass surgeon in town, you would go to the best. Do the same with your eyes.

If interested in LASIK, etc., talk to your eye doc about this and all the options (see big huge post, there's a lot more out there than just LASIK). Find out what surgeon they work with and what the outcomes have been from that surgeon. Call around to a couple other eye doc offices that you are not a patient with and ask who they recommend as the best LASIK surgeon in the area, that way you have several opinions to base on.

Be aware of the risks and decide accordingly. As jumpers, we all know the risks of jumping and feel the benefits are far greater than the risks, but we do our best to minimize those risks as much as possible. Giving the potential side effects of LASIK enables you to more accurately assess the risk/benefit ratio and decide accordingly.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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what makes you think that those of us that have had lasik didn't do the research? you're really coming across like we don't know what we've done to ourselves, when quite frankly, i did my research. if you go back and read what you've written, it's pretty condescending and i would really hope that you don't talk to your patients as children ...unless they are. it's not very appreciated. i'm really surprised, too.

you've also made it clear that you think we're giving medical advice. if someone asks me if i think they should look into lasik, most likely i'll say yes. if you think that's giving medical advice, i'll tell you that's my opinion and i think you are wrong. otherwise, alot of us would need malpractice insurance. if YOU say i think you should have lasik, then you're giving medical advice. if i tell someone they should have their leg amputated because they broke a nail, and they do it, do you think i am responsible? be realistic here.

i guess one of MY pet peeves is condescention from the medical field. fortunately, i have very few dealings with that type of attitude because i DO my research and know what questions to ask.

blues,
arlo

(general comment not directed towards anyone)


An optometrist (OD) examines eyes for both vision and health problems, prescribes glasses, and fits contact lenses. Optometrists prescribe many ophthalmic medications and may participate in your pre- and postoperative care if you have eye surgery. An optometrist must complete four years of post-graduate optometry school.

An ophthalmologist (MD) is a medical doctor who specializes in the eye. They perform eye exams, treat disease, prescribe medication, and perform surgery. They may also write prescriptions for eyeglasses and contact lenses.

An optician is not a doctor, but in some states they must complete training and be licensed. And in some states they can become certified, after special training, to fit contact lenses. Most opticians sell and fit eyeglasses, sunglasses, and specialty eyewear that are made to an optometrist's or ophthalmologist's prescription.

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what makes you think that those of us that have had lasik didn't do the research? you're really coming across like we don't know what we've done to ourselves, when quite frankly, i did my research. if you go back and read what you've written, it's pretty condescending and i would really hope that you don't talk to your patients as children ...unless they are. it's not very appreciated. i'm really surprised, too.



In the exam room setting, I have one person in the chair who asks specific questions regarding LASIK (or whatever), so it's pretty easy to get a feel for what they know, don't know, concerns, interest in the procedure, medical/ocular history, etc.

Here, a large number of people are reading, with varying degrees of having actually read up on risk/benefit, so I have to be broader, more generic. If I base my comments on the least amount of background knowledge of a person, then I know nothing will be missed, mis-interpreted, etc.

I honestly do not believe you have the right to determine how condescending or not a person is through posts like mine that have to cover a hell of a lot of information for a wide variety of people of varying background knowledge. Should you meet me in person and feel I'm condescending, that is absolutely a fair call you can make. Until you have met me in person, on the DZ, in the exam room, or any other setting, you don't really have a basis to make that call.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

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