European Skydiving Laws

[ViperPilot 0]

A guy I know showed me pics last week of him base jumping in France. The only experience he has is when he did Freefall at the zoo back in the day. Apparently, when he was there on vacation, just told them he jumped in the Air Force and they were totally fine w/ that. He has pics, and from what I can tell it probably is him. Either way I told him he was an idiot and lucky he's not dead. Just wondering if Europe is really that lax...maybe just some "rogue" jumpers who were cool w/ it as long as they got paid?

[kelpdiver 2]

what are the 'laws' behind base jumping in the US? Even for skydiving, most rules are BSRs, not laws.

[ViperPilot 0]

Well that's true....but is something like this more common place in Europe? This guy also apparently did 5 jumps in Spain last summer (non-base), doesn't have pics for that one, but if he got away w/ the France ones, then I'm assuming he did do the Spain ones.

[Kris 0]

Skydiving rules have nothing to do with BASE.

Although he'd be better off and a lot safer if he had a lot more skydiving experience, focusing on canopy flight and rigging.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[vt1977 0]

My experience of skydiving in Europe (I'm British and have skydived in Spain, Germany and Sweden) is that the inspections of my documents have been far more thorough than anything I have seen when I have been in the US.

Vicki

[pincheck 0]

got to agree with vicki every where i have went i have had to show my documents and Bpa membership, then again i could just be a shifty looking character

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[kjarv 0]

Every place I've been in Europe (Spain, 3x DZ's in Italy) have ALL asked for complete documentation to include my USPA number/Card, logbook, and reserve repack card.

Is your Zoomie buddy an ex WOB guy, or just a 5 jump survivor of USAFA's summer program?

I imagine that a zoomie that just did the summer AM-490 program would get 'caught' quickly, as he would be very unfamiliar with 'regular' skydiving equipment and procedures. I'm sure you can find your favorite differences by reviewing the AM-490 Syllabus here:http://atlas.usafa.af.mil/rotc/ops/490lessonplan.doc

I think your buddy is tryin' to bullsh!t you on skydiving in Europe.

Finally, if your buddy IS skydiving/base jumping without proper training, be sure to inform him that when he hurts himself (and he will if he doesn't have the proper training) that Uncle Sam is going to do a Line of Duty Determination on him. What the guys who do the investigation will look at (amongst other things) is whether or not he has not informed his commander of his participation in a high risk activity AND/OR whether or not received the proper training for the activity. If he didn't do all the right stuff, the Gov't WILL NOT pay for his injuries, they will come after him to repay any time he owes the AF if his injuries cause him to seperate, or, if he burns in, they won't pay off his SGLI.

-kjarv
USAFA '92

[ViperPilot 0]

This is what makes it even more unbelievable...he's just an AM490 grad...not an ex-WOB. I don't know how he's survived 5 regular jumps in Spain and 8 (I think) BASE jumps in France. Lucky as hell I guess. And yeah, don't think he ever told his commander. So how the heck does a guy with 5 jumps experience on an SOS system be able to first of all even jump, and second of all operate different equipment and land w/o injury? Insane.

[kjarv 0]

I'm callin' bullshit on your buddy--- lets see some video, or lets hear his details on his Spanish Skydiviing experience (aircraft, DZ, dates, , who he jumped with). I'm sure with your level of experience you should be able to interrogate him to the point where you can call BS on him---have fun, and report back

I guess it is possible, that he did some AFF jumps in spain, and is trying to convince you that they just 'let him jump'--- perhaps left that little detail out when regailing you with stories of his innate skydiving skills
5 jumps, 3 years since last jump (best case 1 year if he managed to take it as a firstie), God must be watching over this kid (maybe all that religion training the zoo's gettin in trouble for these days is workin' out okay for him). The number of things that could go wrong are just spectacular, new EP's, going from 10-sec delay to full freefall, new deployment system, probably a new type/size of canopy (what size/type main are they jumping at the zoo now?)

I love stupid lieutenant tricks...
-kjarv

[ViperPilot 0]

He doesn't have proof of the Spain stuff as far as I know...the AFF thing makes sense. But the BASE pics looked like they were him. I think they jump around 290-300 mains, can't remember for sure; I just know they were freakin huge.

[skykittykat 0]

Base jumping regs are different from Skydiving regs. Base jumping is not regulated in the same way as skydiving is as many parachute orgs do not see base jumping as skydiving. Anyone could turn up and do a base jump.

The UK has the most regs out of Europe. If they ever held a World Meet, most of the teams would not be able to jump due to the following obligatory checks:

Log Books: (do any of Airspeed keep log books?)

Visual altimeter (most top team members don't wear a visual altimeter),

Wearing of a hook knife? Not obligitory in many countries.

Current medicals? There are world competitors out there who are over 40 and normally don't have to have a doctor's cert.

Gear checks - are you going to get world teams to stand and do a fully comprehensive gear check on each other when all over the world, you are responsible for your safety?

Wing loading and Swooping - the new Canopy Handling rules would apply. How many of those world competitors would be able to show their equivalent skills without a rating, even though they have personally over 10,000 jumps?

Something to think about.

Liz

[dragon2 0]

What are your Canopy Handling rules?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Gear checks - are you going to get world teams to stand and do a fully comprehensive gear check on each other when all over the world, you are responsible for your safety?

What do you expect? Check, check and overcheck again? IMHO peeking pins has nothing to do with safety.

[TrickyDicky 0]

The rules are:

To get A you need cat 8 (either going through raps or after 10 consoles after AFF) and CH1 (canopy handling 1)
TO get B you need 50 jumps + CH2 +JM1.

CH1/2 are just basic flying skills (accuracy, using toggles/risers to increase range of canopy, riser turns, flat turns) and in general it is thought these are needed.

To do swoop landings, you need CP1 (for upto 180 pre landing turns, 200 jumps pre-requisite) or CP2 (basically allowed into swoop competitions, need at least 1000 jumps + 500 swoop jumps).

Now, Im sure exceptions can be made. Members of airspeed (or similar) are obviously gonna be exected to be safe and know what they're doing.

As for visual altimeter. Ex-XL guys jumping in the UK wear one on the side webbing of their rigs just to conform to rules. You cannot look at your alti in this position.
And hook knives are often built into rigs. (if on riser covers make sure the knife is pointing the right way

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[jakee 1,259]

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The UK has the most regs out of Europe. If they ever held a World Meet, most of the teams would not be able to jump due to the following obligatory checks:

Log Books: (do any of Airspeed keep log books?)

You don't need to have every jump you've ever done. I'm sure airspeed have enough documentation to prove they really are skydivers.

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Wearing of a hook knife? Not obligitory in many countries.

And it takes how long to put one on your gear?

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Current medicals? There are world competitors out there who are over 40 and normally don't have to have a doctor's cert.

Again, how difficult would it be to get one?

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Gear checks - are you going to get world teams to stand and do a fully comprehensive gear check on each other when all over the world, you are responsible for your safety?

What, are you saying these people would refuse to give each other flightline pin checks? It takes 30 seconds. Hell some people sign their buddies off without even looking at them.

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Wing loading and Swooping - the new Canopy Handling rules would apply. How many of those world competitors would be able to show their equivalent skills without a rating, even though they have personally over 10,000 jumps?

I'd have to look up the regs but I'm pretty sure you can be grandfathered into them without having to jump through all the hoops.

You may have a point about visual alti's but I don't see any of the others as being legitimate barriers to jumping in the UK. Don't get me wrong I'd love for us to clean away some of the regs and beaurocracy involved but it isn't as bad as you make out.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skykittykat 0]

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Don't get me wrong I'd love for us to clean away some of the regs and beaurocracy involved but it isn't as bad as you make out.

Sorry, some of it was tongue in cheek!

I am not bagging the UK and their rules - a lot of their rules are in place for a good reason and when you think about currency of jumpers in a country that has bad weather and has a smaller skydiving community than say America, these rules have been made for what the rulemakers see for safety.

The UK has got a pretty good safety record.

The new Canopy Handling regs are a fab idea coz it can only make people learn a whole lot more in what is the biggest killer in skydiving at the moment - people dying under a perfectly good flyable canopy.

Liz

[jakee 1,259]

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Sorry, some of it was tongue in cheek!

D'oh! That went straight over my head

Do you want to have an ideagasm?