Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga

[andymarch 0]

Wanted to start a new post in swooping forum, but it's more technical and specific questions there, while this is not really swooping and still matter of general safety and training.

First of all, I'd like to thank all of you again for feedback, any feedback, very, very helpful indeed. This is probably the most important advice I carried from this: showing your progress to experienced people, the more the better corrects you attitude, goals and most importantly delusions; and is not only critical for everyone's safety, but greatly improves the learning curve. So I plan to keep you all posted.

Main advice to experienced jumpers: if someone makes bad decisions, don't assume he knows he does!
Main advice to newbies, if in doubt - downsize ask! If you are sure you're right - definitely ask :) If you are too aggressive and cutting some corners, it definitely helps to be fully aware of associated risks.

So, 198 jumps on Safire2-129, 315 total. Traffic and pattern awareness becomes natural. I really like how accuracy gets more and more easy, teammate that lands first and can film your fly-by is a good incentive for that ;) Nailing those 90s, becoming more staged and controlled: brakes, fronts, offset, harness, level-off..
Really wanted something with lighter front riser pressure and not such short recovery arc so got myself Katana-120 as a next canopy (loaded at ~1.48), winter is hop'n'pop time anyway. Since the plan is get back to straight-ins and high pulls, openings concern me even more than landings. We'll see.
Here's the updated video (new stuff from 5th minute):
http://youtu.be/kAsZNm8-4Co
Again, any thoughts welcome!

[piisfish 137]

315 jumps, Katana 120 loaded at 1.5, seems you unfortunately didn't get the message correctly.
Good luck

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[FB1609 0]

I enjoyed the vid, you seem to be progressing with optimism. At your rate I can see you base wingsuit prox jumping pretty soon and posting cool vids. Nice job on the base landings by the way.

Careful though, maybe making that vid pushes you to progress a bit faster than a non documented progression would. It only takes one mistake...and seriously, you have very little experience, a fact shown by your jump numbers.

[format 1]

I wouldn't be surprised if he outlive most of "you're gonna die" posters.
And it's not about the age thing.

What goes around, comes later.

[NWFlyer 2]

format

I wouldn't be surprised if he outlive most of "you're gonna die" posters.
And it's not about the age thing.

Maybe so. Just hope he (and all the other Mad Skillz crowd) doesn't take out one of us grumpy old farts in the process.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[andymarch 0]

NWFlyer

Maybe so. Just hope he (and all the other Mad Skillz crowd) doesn't take out one of us grumpy old farts in the process.

Hi Kris Yes, that's why canopy courses, these conversations and peer coaching is so important. For one guy that posts his "kool swooping" video on DZ forum, there is ten if not hundred more all over the country that acquire skillz on their own

[andymarch 0]

FB1609

I enjoyed the vid, you seem to be progressing with optimism. At your rate I can see you base wingsuit prox jumping pretty soon and posting cool vids. Nice job on the base landings by the way.

Careful though, maybe making that vid pushes you to progress a bit faster than a non documented progression would. It only takes one mistake...and seriously, you have very little experience, a fact shown by your jump numbers.

Thanks!
Wing suit proxy flying is one of my dreams, I do realize lack of experience, so for now just working on pieces and getting mileage. Another 300-400 jumps on Katana, eventually moving to 270s. I have 30 wing suit jumps and a docking camp on P2. Plan to get more experience, then move to Havok that's on the way. Also in the plans go to Perrine bridge for a few days. Definitely, 4-way Nationals next year too...
To much fun awaits (besides skydiving too), not to be careful :)

[format 1]

NWFlyer

Just hope he doesn't take out one of us grumpy old farts in the process.

I'm no fart.. a burp maybe

What goes around, comes later.

[-ftp- 0]

whats your goal of posting this on here? And please don't feed a BS line of "to learn."

[andymarch 0]

-ftp-

whats your goal of posting this on here? And please don't feed a BS line of "to learn."

Why do people ever make and post skydiving videos on youtube? Showing-off, of course! I do love my videos and am proud of my progress.
Here's a few tunnel videos, because we're so awesome :)
Blocks training: http://youtu.be/6KFH0wNIFsk
Before Nationals: http://youtu.be/2IyZIjoOYZ4

Besides, you know the saying: if it's not on GoPro - it's a PLF :)

On a serious note, I wasn't the one who posted here originally, but the response did help a lot. So the main reason is to get feedback and sync my goals with people with knowledge who've been where I am now. Not so much on this forum, but several local friends and people I've personally met while jumping, watched my landings and gave more specific drills, points and hints (even a simple 'landing # - start leveling earlier, but slower next time') that improved my flying a lot!
Not sure, what could be the other goals, really.

[freekflyguy 0]

Sad as it may seem I watched the video.

One question, did you really hook up and pack your reserve and main without hanging either canopy to do a line sequence check?

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[normiss 733]

People with mad skillz advance faster than normal.
Please do try to keep up with his progression and stop trying to hold people back.
You clearly do not understand.

[grue 1]

normiss

People with mad skillz advance faster than normal.
Please do try to keep up with his progression and stop trying to hold people back.
You clearly do not understand.

I can't decide if this thread makes me feel good or bad about my canopy progression

cavete terrae.

[hookitt 1]

freekflyguy

One question, did you really hook up and pack your reserve and main without hanging either canopy to do a line sequence check?

I watched the video when it was first posted so don't recall seeing that part. Doing a line continuity check doesn't require being hung. It might be easier but it's not required to do a thorough, and proper job of it.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[freekflyguy 0]

hookitt

***

One question, did you really hook up and pack your reserve and main without hanging either canopy to do a line sequence check?

I watched the video when it was first posted so don't recall seeing that part. Doing a line continuity check doesn't require being hung. It might be easier but it's not required to do a thorough, and proper job of it.

It makes it a damn site easier, what about carrying out a full inspection of the reserve? I would say hanging the canopy is the only way to ensure you have carried out a full and thorough inspection.

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[JanuszPS 0]

it seams that it was a BASE rig

Back to Poland... back home.

[freekflyguy 0]

JanuszPS

it seams that it was a BASE rig

Oh no it wasn't

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[hookitt 1]

freekflyguy

******

One question, did you really hook up and pack your reserve and main without hanging either canopy to do a line sequence check?

I watched the video when it was first posted so don't recall seeing that part. Doing a line continuity check doesn't require being hung. It might be easier but it's not required to do a thorough, and proper job of it.

It makes it a damn site easier, what about carrying out a full inspection of the reserve? I would say hanging the canopy is the only way to ensure you have carried out a full and thorough inspection.


Well then, I guess you'd have to watch me do one without hanging it and decide if it was satisfactory.

By the way, I did not watch his video at all because I thought you were referring to a different video.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

I would say hanging the canopy is the only way to ensure you have carried out a full and thorough inspection.

Well, careful laying out and line checking each group has always worked for me - - that or jumping it....

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[andymarch 0]

freekflyguy

One question, did you really hook up and pack your reserve and main without hanging either canopy to do a line sequence check?

It's a friend of mine, who re-packs the reserve and hooks up main. He is a rigger, and packs reserves all the time, has quite a few saves too, so I have no reasons not to think he's a good one. Always does very thorough inspection and has detailed systematic approach, which is kind of hard to see by the process that took 2 hours and then crammed into 1 min time lapse :)

[gearless_chris 1]

I thought this was a different video too. I love all the faceplants, and random landing directions, and S-turns on final, and landing the wrong direction in the wrong place on a night jump.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[thomas.n.thomas 0]

andymarch

Well, I agree that I could have more graduate downsize, but since I already have 100 jumps on my Safire129 and feel pretty comfortable with it, this is what I start with, so to say.

And my point, continuing with Naval analogy, is that, imagine you have a GA pilot with 200 hours that you need to train on F18 deck landing, and you are paying for all the rentals, fuel etc. You want to be safe, since injuries or expensive equipment damage set you back and are very bad in general. But at the same time you don't want to say, here's 182, just fly for 1000 hours and come back :) So my question to others is: how would you approach this training?

Andy, forgive me, but I have to join the dogpile. For full disclosure, I am a new jumper - 3 years and 50 or so jumps. I am by no means someone who knows much about jumping.

Now consider, when you are cruising through the landing pattern, there is someone like me out there on a 210 trying his best to safely float down and just hit the LZ without any bumps. How do you think it affects my ability to do what I want if you come crossing through the pattern, fly in, near, or around me going much faster and a higher descent rate? It scares the crap out of me, and I don't know you from Adam. I don't know how much control you have, whether you see me, and then I go into panic mode because there is a canopy near me. Maybe you plan on me continuing straight and slow, but I make a quick avoidance maneuver, and now that space you had picked out is closing down because I just turned into where you are going. Remember, I'm new and stupid, and maybe my decision is the wrong one to compound the problem, or maybe it's the right one as far as I know it because I have no idea where you are really going to end up. At the very least, my pattern is now screwed up and I'm forced to try and correct, which makes my landing that much more difficult. At worst, well...I think we all know...

So, hopefully things have changed since the initial posts. Just consider that you can't have the mindset that things are going to go according to plan with those other canopies around. Remember there are guys like me out there just trying to get by, doing our best to be safe and predictable, and trying to get better despite our ineptitude, weakness, fear, etc. Give us a break and sit your place in line in the pattern or go hop and pop if you want free reign of the LZ.

Now, as for the F/A-18 analogy. I'm no flight instructor, but I'm pretty dang sure that the guy in charge would go follow NATOPS, and he is not going to short cycle some guy and dump the manual all because, "this guy is really good, and he doesn't need those pre-reqs." The pilot either has the required training or he doesn't. If I'm going to put him in charge of a $50M aircraft, I am not going to worry too much about a few $100K extra for training. Might be that he learns something. Fact is, much like in Naval Aviation, the rules and best practices in the skydiving community have been developed over many years by many people with much experience. To ignore the benefit of these rules and best practices is foolish. Choosing your own way over conventional wisdom may work sometimes for some people, but not all the time for all the people, and not even all the time for some of the people. Success-based planning kills.

[gearless_chris 1]

You could also make a panic turn to avoid this guy... right into the person beside you.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

Remember, I'm new and stupid...

You may be new ~ but you're not stupid!

Keep the mindset you have posted above and you will go a very long way in the sport.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[andymarch 0]

gearless_chris

...and landing the wrong direction in the wrong place on a night jump.

Landed short, but never wrong direction at night.

thomas.n.thomas

So, hopefully things have changed since the initial posts. Just consider that you can't have the mindset that things are going to go according to plan with those other canopies around.
<...>
Now, as for the F/A-18 analogy. I'm no flight instructor, but I'm pretty dang sure that the guy in charge would go follow NATOPS, and he is not going to short cycle some guy and dump the manual all because, "this guy is really good, and he doesn't need those pre-reqs."

Yes, hopefully things have changed, jump numbers is where we get into various situations, conditions and get experience. However F/A-18 analogy is for slightly different point: to put someone in charge of it, yes, certain training is required, but not the hours alone. I've seen examples when some has 1000 jumps on 190 that I wouldn't suggest to downsize, as well as people with 400 jumps that fly sub-100 and don't make me worry. I would never say, make 1000 jumps on 150, then you are ready for 135, without seeing, how are the patterns, flat turns, 90s.. well Brian's check-list for example; what the person is working on and what are the limiting factors if any.
So, "PATTERN, awareness and canopy classes" is a good feedback, "make 400 jumps on a bigger canopy" - not too progression or goal specific.