Rdutch 0 #1 January 30, 2003 Pia gets a good review as far as Im concerned. The only thing I didn't like was the messed up hours. They were open at different hours every day, and the web site is down so you didn't know what they were, so basically you took a chance, they were open 3:30-8:00 one day and 12:00 to 3:30 then 6:30 to 8:00 the next. They would close the exibition hall for the seminar's but at $95 a day to attend the seminars, most people weren't interested, unless your company paid your way in. OK here is some of the cool stuff I saw. Canopies: well I saw a bunch of canopies, all shapes and sizes, there was a 21sq ft xaos, and a 33 sq ft cobalt. I give the Precision guys the vote for the best display area, Icarus came next, they had a cool prototype canopy that they claim gets 99% on heading opening's. Pd had the most bland stand nothing really there to see. I saw the Atair Onyx first hand and I must agree im curious about wanting to jump it, I dont like the idea of using spectra lines on a canopy of that type, but it still look's like fun. But in an exibition all the canopies looked to most people like a bunch of fabric. Oh yeah I almost forgot, Airodyne's new stuff actually looked pretty good. The canopies arent anything I would want to jump, more aimed at the crossfire, stilletto crowd's. But their new container was pretty sharp, and they had a promising new reserve, but I did notice they were using the same tape that Precision had on their recalled Reserves, and with a single bartack, Dont know why they did this but I would like to know. Ok Rigs: Of course Im going to start with Relative workshop, (favoritism) But they have a new reserve deployment system that takes it all one step further, I have seen the test jumps first hand and Damn that thing gets it open fast. Its called a sky hook, and it is based on the BASE reserve system used on the sorcerer, but its different. They are getting reserves open in about 150 ft and in 1.8 seconds. Im sure that they will put the details in their web site. Jump Shack caught my eye with their new container, it is completely velcro free, and looked to be very freefly friendly, and comfortable as hell. Most of the manufacturer's had more military stuff to offer than sport, so most of what was there already is in the market. Javelin did have a good idea, it is a ground launch harness/container for blade running. Oh yeah and you have to give wing's props for the hotties they had walking around giving stuff out. The coolest thing I saw came from Alti2, (Makers of the altimaster3), It is a new digital, waterproof altimiter/dytter. You can use is as an altimiter or put it in your helmet as a dytter. It has all the options of the pro trac, but also has a canopy decent rate top and bottom. It has a temp guage, and a climb rate and time to altitude. Best of all asking price is $240. For all the pond swoopers this should be a big item, waterproof altimiter, with a speed guage/log for canopy, oh yeah! And its accurate to around 3 ft, that is pretty good. Well this sums up about 25% of what I saw, but I would be here all day, Im glad I went and am excited about what skydiving has to offer in the future. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #2 January 30, 2003 Thanks for the report, Ray. Now I wish I would have scheduled my week better to be able to go.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 January 30, 2003 Thats it... 2005 I'll be there. I'm mad I did'nt go this time, but I think having my riggers ticket by the next one will help in understanding some things.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #4 January 30, 2003 Quote The coolest thing I saw came from Alti2, (Makers of the altimaster3), It is a new digital, waterproof altimiter/dytter. You can use is as an altimiter or put it in your helmet as a dytter. It has all the options of the pro trac, but also has a canopy decent rate top and bottom. It has a temp guage, and a climb rate and time to altitude. Best of all asking price is $240. For all the pond swoopers this should be a big item, waterproof altimiter, with a speed guage/log for canopy, oh yeah! And its accurate to around 3 ft, that is pretty good. Guess I know what Hook is going to want for his birthday this year. Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #5 January 30, 2003 I concur with Ray's view. Another main that really excited me, though, was the ParaTec offering which had the wildest baffle system I had ever seen. They don't call them "airlocks" and gave a first rate demonstration why. The front of the parachute looks like a very-forward-canted jet intake with the inlet well under the "nose". The nose of the main was very pointed and stayed highly pressurized. They had a prototype 85 that I really would have liked to jump. The Alti-2 "neptune" was indeed something I would really like to have RIGHT NOW. Affordable; multi-purpose; waterproof! They are taking orders right now for them. You can read about the new BirdMan offering over in the wingsuit forum, but let me say that the new SkyFlyer 3 is so much of an advancement over my current version that I ordered one on the spot. A monkey just can't have enough wingsuits! Containers on display ran from tiny and neat to freakishly garrish. I really thought the new Aerodyne rig was tidy and will be purchasing a set of their newly redesigned, lower cutaway pressure risers with the odd new middle "ring". All the big canopy manufacturers had the end booths and all but Aerodyne had big flat-screen TV's and cool videos. Their big leather couches made them conducive to chilling and working business/sponsorship deals. In all, I had a blast, but I think I will be hauling ass back to NC today because I accomplished all my missions two days ago. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #6 January 30, 2003 QuoteThe coolest thing I saw came from Alti2, (Makers of the altimaster3), It is a new digital, waterproof altimiter/dytter. You can use is as an altimiter or put it in your helmet as a dytter. It has all the options of the pro trac, but also has a canopy decent rate top and bottom. It has a temp guage, and a climb rate and time to altitude. Best of all asking price is $240. For all the pond swoopers this should be a big item, waterproof altimiter, with a speed guage/log for canopy, oh yeah! And its accurate to around 3 ft, that is pretty good The Neptune Wow, did Alti-2 updated their website for the Symposium? I'm impressed! Wot no download?! Edited to add: What's the form factor? ProTrack size? Probably not if used for a visual alti? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #7 January 30, 2003 QuoteI really thought the new Aerodyne rig was tidy and will be purchasing a set of their newly redesigned, lower cutaway pressure risers with the odd new middle "ring". Anything to do with A New Type of Canopy Quick Release, Doug Bahniuk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #8 January 30, 2003 Craig, it very well might be, but as I only have a lowly "exhibition hall only" pass, I cannot say what he discussed. I can tell you the new three ring system they have is bad-ass. Risers with those rings (soon to be available from Aerodyne) will retrofit onto most rigs where the main riser cover does not come down too low and near where the "old" three ring small ring would be. These risers would work fine on either of my Javs. The Neptune is roughly the size and thickness of a Pro-Trac and is designed to fit in a pocket that size, but is intended for use on the wrist or back of the hand. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #9 January 30, 2003 Quote For all the pond swoopers this should be a big item, waterproof altimiter, with a speed guage/log for canopy, oh yeah! And its accurate to around 3 ft, that is pretty good. That's more accurate than the Earth's atmosphere!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
samp76 0 #10 January 30, 2003 Quote The Alti-2 "neptune" was indeed something I would really like to have RIGHT NOW. Affordable; multi-purpose; waterproof! They are taking orders right now for them. Chuck Anyone know who to order them from?? --Sam--Let go of the NUT!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markbaur 0 #11 January 30, 2003 QuoteA New Type of Canopy Quick Release, Doug Bahniuk Take a capewell, stretch it out to 4". Like a capewell, the male (riser) fitting loads inside an upper lip on the female (riser) fitting, and rotates out as the riser releases. But instead of a capewell-style slide on the front of the female fitting to keep the male lug in place, the bottom of the male fitting protrudes through the female fitting, allowing the male fitting to be pinned on the back side of the female fitting. Good points: -- All metal design. -- Cannot be assembled incorrectly. -- Simple construction: just two machined plates and a locking pin, instead of the lug, slide, rivet, covers, etc. of a capewell. Some unresolved issues: -- The stainless steel version weighs about 4 times as much as a 3-ring release (but titanium would weigh only half as much as stainless and cost about the same as the stainless). -- The pin must be pulled straight out, so alignment of the release cable housing is critical. Ask your rigger about alignment issues with old-style cones-and-pins ripcords. -- The 4" flat plate is not ergonomic; it won't conform to your shoulders like a 3-ring system does - and if a curved, shoulder-conformed model can be made for you, it may not fit me if I should borrow your gear. My prediction: this one will join the Strong Wrap, R2^2, and Chrysalis. Nice engineering, but not a serious challenge to 3-Ring. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #12 January 31, 2003 QuoteQuote For all the pond swoopers this should be a big item, waterproof altimiter, with a speed guage/log for canopy, oh yeah! And its accurate to around 3 ft, that is pretty good. That's more accurate than the Earth's atmosphere! My bad I meant to say 3mph not 3ft. Sorry! Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #13 January 31, 2003 No, The Aerodyne was a modified three ring. The middle ring is elongated like an oval with a divider bar in the middle. The PIA server was down due to an auto accident that cut the AT&T fiber line. It was over 24 hours before they fixed it. In addition the worm that was going around the world took it out last weekend. PIA was trying around the clock to get it up. How do I know? I'm sitting in the Adam's Mark PIA office finishing up the continuing ed certificates. Next year Skymama, the symposium will be over the weekend, Jan14th through the 18th. See ya there. BTW the rumor is I will be coordinating the speakers. Anybody interested or have recommendations it's never to early to send me a note. Terry UrbanI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #14 January 31, 2003 Quote Next year Skymama, the symposium will be over the weekend, Jan14th through the 18th. See ya there. Do you mean "next year" or in two years? -tom buchananTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #15 January 31, 2003 >They are getting reserves open in about 150 ft and in 1.8 seconds. >Im sure that they will put the details in their web site. I wonder about the usefulness of that. Is there any benefit in a more complex reserve system that opens in 1.8 instead of 2 seconds? >Javelin did have a good idea, it is a ground launch harness/container for blade running. How was it different? Was it a single canopy system? Did it have a spine/butt protector? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #16 January 31, 2003 QuoteHow was it different? Was it a single canopy system? Did it have a spine/butt protector? yea, might be a bit painful at terminal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #17 January 31, 2003 Quote>They are getting reserves open in about 150 ft and in 1.8 seconds. >Im sure that they will put the details in their web site. I wonder about the usefulness of that. Is there any benefit in a more complex reserve system that opens in 1.8 instead of 2 seconds?Quote Lots of usefulness, if you ride your mal to 500ft then cutaway, think about all the people that died in the past few years due to low cutaway's, also the normal range for a reserve deployment is under 3 second's and 1.8 to 3 seconds is a lot of difference in feet. There was test jumps that opened in under 200 ft. ***Javelin did have a good idea, it is a ground launch harness/container for blade running. How was it different? Was it a single canopy system? Did it have a spine/butt protector?Quote Of course it was a single canopy container, why would you need a reserve for a ground launch blade running flight. It basically was a harness with a holding area for your canopy. I was just letting people know what I saw thats all. But I dont think it had a spine protector, at least from what I saw. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,434 #18 February 1, 2003 >There was test jumps that opened in under 200 ft. I've seen test jumps for regular rigs that opened in under 200 feet. (Reflex with catapult.) I think a lot of it depends on how fast you're going, and in which direction, when you cut away. >Of course it was a single canopy container, why would you need a >reserve for a ground launch blade running flight. Many paragliders use reserves; I guess it would depend on how the course was set up (i.e. if you never get higher than 100 feet, there's no use in having a reserve.) >It basically was a harness with a holding area for your canopy. I was > just letting people know what I saw thats all. But I dont think it had > a spine protector, at least from what I saw. That's too bad. Paraglider harnesses also have these things. I know of at least one jumper (Dan Fairchild) who could have really used a back protector during a blade-running meet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #19 February 1, 2003 Quote> I've seen test jumps for regular rigs that opened in under 200 feet. (Reflex with catapult.) I think a lot of it depends on how fast you're going, and in which direction, when you cut away.Quote The catapult was a bad design that didn't work at all. And my point here isn't to argue deployment speed's or anything else I was just trying to let people that couldn't attend the pia know what I saw and was out there. But the skyhook is the fastest cutaway/deployment system out there for now, no one can claim a 1.8 second reserve deployment. Put yourself at 500ft with malfunction, with a catapult or a skyhook you pick which one do you want? I understand if you haven't seen the skyhook to decide, but you must know a lot about it to comment on it. ***Of course it was a single canopy container, why would you need a >reserve for a ground launch blade running flight. Many paragliders use reserves; I guess it would depend on how the course was set up (i.e. if you never get higher than 100 feet, there's no use in having a reserve.) >It basically was a harness with a holding area for your canopy. I was > just letting people know what I saw thats all. But I dont think it had > a spine protector, at least from what I saw. That's too bad. Paraglider harnesses also have these things. I know of at least one jumper (Dan Fairchild) who could have really used a back protector during a blade-running meet. I guess if you want a paraglider harness to blade run, buy a paraglider harness, I didn't build it, just said what I saw. I dont know what a reserve will do for you when your swooping 100 ft off the ground, unless maybe if you had a catapult reserve system you could cutaway and it would save you if for some reason your canopy quit working and you had time to deploy before you hit the ground. But a spine protector does sound like a good idea, except sometimes your protective equipment can hurt you more than not having it, I guess that would be a personal decision, but It sounds like a good idea to me. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #18 February 1, 2003 >There was test jumps that opened in under 200 ft. I've seen test jumps for regular rigs that opened in under 200 feet. (Reflex with catapult.) I think a lot of it depends on how fast you're going, and in which direction, when you cut away. >Of course it was a single canopy container, why would you need a >reserve for a ground launch blade running flight. Many paragliders use reserves; I guess it would depend on how the course was set up (i.e. if you never get higher than 100 feet, there's no use in having a reserve.) >It basically was a harness with a holding area for your canopy. I was > just letting people know what I saw thats all. But I dont think it had > a spine protector, at least from what I saw. That's too bad. Paraglider harnesses also have these things. I know of at least one jumper (Dan Fairchild) who could have really used a back protector during a blade-running meet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #19 February 1, 2003 Quote> I've seen test jumps for regular rigs that opened in under 200 feet. (Reflex with catapult.) I think a lot of it depends on how fast you're going, and in which direction, when you cut away.Quote The catapult was a bad design that didn't work at all. And my point here isn't to argue deployment speed's or anything else I was just trying to let people that couldn't attend the pia know what I saw and was out there. But the skyhook is the fastest cutaway/deployment system out there for now, no one can claim a 1.8 second reserve deployment. Put yourself at 500ft with malfunction, with a catapult or a skyhook you pick which one do you want? I understand if you haven't seen the skyhook to decide, but you must know a lot about it to comment on it. ***Of course it was a single canopy container, why would you need a >reserve for a ground launch blade running flight. Many paragliders use reserves; I guess it would depend on how the course was set up (i.e. if you never get higher than 100 feet, there's no use in having a reserve.) >It basically was a harness with a holding area for your canopy. I was > just letting people know what I saw thats all. But I dont think it had > a spine protector, at least from what I saw. That's too bad. Paraglider harnesses also have these things. I know of at least one jumper (Dan Fairchild) who could have really used a back protector during a blade-running meet. I guess if you want a paraglider harness to blade run, buy a paraglider harness, I didn't build it, just said what I saw. I dont know what a reserve will do for you when your swooping 100 ft off the ground, unless maybe if you had a catapult reserve system you could cutaway and it would save you if for some reason your canopy quit working and you had time to deploy before you hit the ground. But a spine protector does sound like a good idea, except sometimes your protective equipment can hurt you more than not having it, I guess that would be a personal decision, but It sounds like a good idea to me. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fool 0 #20 February 1, 2003 how fast does the reserve open from terminal? it seems to me (not that I know all that much) that it might be a bit fast to endure. S.E.X. party #1 "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #21 February 1, 2003 Quote>They are getting reserves open in about 150 ft and in 1.8 seconds. > I wonder about the usefulness of that. Is there any benefit in a more complex reserve system that opens in 1.8 instead of 2 seconds? I've wondered the same. There's a good video of a Test jump I made. After the cutaway, the delay was exactly 1 second before pulling the reserve ripcord. Exactly 2 seconds ofter that, I was under a pressurized reserve. I guess time will tell.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #22 February 1, 2003 At the risk of sounding ignorant, what is blade running? I'm imagining something like slalom skiing, but with a canopy and airblades as gates. Did I get close? My friend had to use his reserve while paragliding (with a tandem passenger). The reserves are just rounds...but I guess that makes sense. Couldn't one wear a motorcycle back protector under their rig? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sar911 0 #23 February 1, 2003 QuoteBut the skyhook is the fastest cutaway/deployment system out there for now, no one can claim a 1.8 second reserve deployment. Yes they can, check Jump Shack and watch the video of a 1.6 sec. deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #24 February 1, 2003 Every time? I think I will talk to my good friend Timm Webb today. And see what he say's, he is one of the head designer's from jumpshack. If Jumpshack really does have a reserve system that offers 1.6 second openings every time then they definitely do have the fastest reserve system out there, but I dont see how a normal reserve system can compete with the skyhook design. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sar911 0 #25 February 1, 2003 QuoteEvery time? I think I will talk to my good friend Timm Webb today. And see what he say's, he is one of the head designer's from jumpshack. If Jumpshack really does have a reserve system that offers 1.6 second openings every time then they definitely do have the fastest reserve system out there, but I dont see how a normal reserve system can compete with the skyhook design. Every time? I think I will talk to my good friend Timm Webb today. And see what he say's, he is one of the head designer's from jumpshack. If Jumpshack really does have a reserve system that offers 1.6 second openings every time then they definitely do have the fastest reserve system out there, but I dont see how a normal reserve system can compete with the skyhook design. Tell Tim I said hi. I will be there tues-thrus packing. Come by and I will ask John to play the video for you. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
