260 jumps/ vengence 150/ 1.4 loading

[mattjw916 2]

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A Veng at 1.4 is pretty sporty, but at least it has a relatively short recovery arc.

No it doesn't. The Vengence has more than a reasonable recovery arc.

Blues,
Ian

Shorter than a Samurai, Katana, Xfire2, etc... that's why I said "relatively". Of the several people I know (knew) that jumped them, that was their impression. Plus at 1.4 it'll be fairly positive and won't stay in a dive by itself for long once you let up.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[skysurfcam 0]

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In my ongoing battles with low level jumpers, this is the latest. This jumper has been jumping a turbo 165 and feels he is being held back. He hasn't had any formal canopy control coaching.

Have him pack the Vengence in his rig, then drive him 5 miles down the road from the DZ. Tell him he can jump it after he walks back to the DZ.

In the years to come he'll appreciate remembering the time he spent on the journey, back when he could walk.


C.

Brother Wayward's rule of the day...
"Never ever ever go skydiving without going parachuting immediately afterwards."
100% PURE ADRENALENS

[phoenixlpr 0]

One member of our club just moved down from Sabre150 to Vengence 120. I hope I had a really good insurance.

[ScottMcC 0]

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I'd just warn him about Vengeances in general... I don't know more than a couple people that can tolerate that canopy.

Probably not a good idea overall. Can it be done? Sure. Is it a particularly good choice... nope.

A Veng at 1.4 is pretty sporty, but at least it has a relatively short recovery arc. Better that than a Katana at 1.4 at 200-something jumps.

Have you jumped a vengeance? Why so much hatred against it?

I have put almost 500 jumps on my Vengeance, and I love it. and no, the recovery arc is not short, although it is slightly less than a katana (which is designed to have a very long recovery arc). that's like saying the Hancock building is short, relatively speaking, since after all the Sears tower is taller.

as for a newbie jumping a vengeance, bad idea, even if he has lots and lots of coaching and flies well. the vengeance is a very agressive canopy, not for beginners. end of story. A 1.4 wingloading at 200 some jumps is pretty high too. Maybe a Sabre2 at 1.25-1.3 would be a better choice?

[mattjw916 2]

Dude, where did I say I hated the V?

I will say that the majority of the people I know that jumped one didn't like them.

Apparently you failed to grasp the sarcasm of the last line too, even with the smilies.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[mjosparky 3]

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ouch. I know I can't spell for crap but it still hurts everytime it gets pointed out

Can you say "Spell Check"?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Remster 24]

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I have a 165

A vengence 165? Wow... You must be special.

Remster

[bigway 4]

LOL,


Sorry, but that was prettuy funny.


LOL

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[gofast_ER 0]

i can say it but i doubt i can spell it

I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it.

[dharma1976 0]

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In my ongoing battles with low level jumpers, this is the latest. This jumper has been jumping a turbo 165 and feels he is being held back. He hasn't had any formal canopy control coaching.

Apperently, a vengence doesn't fly like an eliptical! At least that's what I'm told.

Where is the it depends on what you think of his skill

make him take a brian germain/scott miller course and learn how to make his canopy move faster instead of downsizing for the speed...

Edited to say that although I sound conservative I have been at a 1.6-1.7 wingloading on my crossfire 129 since 490 jumps...and the DZ manager approved it...

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Zipp0 1]

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ya know, it still makes me mad that some people just dont get it..... and they repeat mistakes that others have made - all the while saying the same tired mantra.....:" I am better than them"..... you dont know me.... I am exceptional.....

This is why people climb K2. They know about 1/2 of those who try it die trying. You'd have to believe you were better than those who went before you, or you would basically be accepting a death sentence. Are they fools for trying? Maybe, but who am I to say.

That being said, having read the incedent reports, high performance canopies seem to be responsible for many deaths. I am happy flying my slow-ass student canopy for some time to come...

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[ntacfreefly 0]

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This is why people climb K2. They know about 1/2 of those who try it die trying. You'd have to believe you were better than those who went before you, or you would basically be accepting a death sentence.

Agreed - but these same people also put in years of training and preparation.

That's where your example falls down. The people referred to are the equivalent of the average weekend hiker deciding to go climb K2.

Blues.

To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

[billvon 2,434]

>This is why people climb K2. They know about 1/2 of those who try it die trying.

Yeah, a friend of mine tried (and failed.) I notice a big difference between her attitude and the attitude of many jumpers under HP canopies, though - she knew she could die. A great many newer jumpers get their Vengeance 150, start jumping it, land without injury a few times, and then proclaim "No problem! I've landed it a few times. Those people who said it was dangerous are full of shit. They're probably just jealous of my skill."

I have no problem with Beezy Shaw (for example) test jumping some new, hot 50 square foot canopy - he knows the risks. I do have a big problem with someone with 100 jumps doing the same thing based on ignorance of the risks.

[kelpdiver 2]

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That's where your example falls down. The people referred to are the equivalent of the average weekend hiker deciding to go climb K2.

There's no shortage of such people going to Everest, with nothing more than a $65,000 check in their pocket.

Or more locally, Ranier in Washington.

[Remster 24]

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nothing more than a $65,000 check in their pocket.

You dont have 5 sherpas with you telling you when to do your turns.

Remster

[billvon 2,434]

>There's no shortage of such people going to Everest, with nothing
>more than a $65,000 check in their pocket.

Nor is there any shortage of tandem students showing up with $200 in their pocket jumping heavily loaded (by student standards) main parachutes. But tandem jumping, and guided climbing, is a bit different than what we're talking about, eh?

[kelpdiver 2]

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nothing more than a $65,000 check in their pocket.

You dont have 5 sherpas with you telling you when to do your turns.

When you're on summit climb, it's every man for himself. Not terribly different than the last 300ft landing a canopy. Even the students with radios are left to get it done.

The situations aren't that far removed. Lots of mountaineers suffer the same sort of overconfidence that we see in skydiving. You see it at every level from Everest to Denali to Ranier to Whitney. K2 is scary enough that I suspect it removes the truly unqualified from the mix, but there are still people less than adequetely prepared doing it. That the OP is here asking for opinions suggests that the answer isn't a slam dunk no as to the Vengence @ 1.4.

[D22369 0]

Are they fools for trying?***

i would say no.... but to put it in perspective, this is like a weekend day hiker who hikes on groomed hiking trails suddenly deciding to go climb K2 without any training or guiding.

I have absolutely no problem with fools becoming darwins award winners, what I do have a major problem with is giving them the tools to run down my friends who jump larger more conservitive canopy's, cause sometimes they take someone with them.


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.