Need advice for DZ issue

[billvon 2,400]

He sounds like a jerk.

That being said, he may also have some experience that you lack. He likely means well with his advice and his concern, but is expressing it poorly and in a confrontational manner. I know a lot of people like this in skydiving - people who are quite skilled, and are even willing to help others learn, but can't do it without being condescending and rude.

Life is full of jerks, but some are worth listening to even if they are jerks. I'd recommend listening to his advice, and consider following it unless you think it's unsafe or dangerous. There's a lot of things to learn in skydiving, and many things are better learned through listening than through experience. (It can suck to learn what can go wrong on a demo through experience, for example!)

I wouldn't go to the DZO and ask him to resolve this. If I were a DZO, and I saw a newer jumper who wants to 'push the limits' a bit bitching about an experienced instructor who is trying to get him to slow down, I know who I would side with. Not because of the personalities involved, but because when someone with experience thinks someone with less experience should slow down, heeding that advice is almost always a better course of action than the alternative.

Instead, I'd deal with him directly. Tell him you're uncomfortable with X, Y and Z, and ask him to cut it out. It may be hard to "hold it in" when talking to him, but you will have to develop this skill - you will need it often during your skydiving career.

>I say "couldn't tell you right off".. he asks again and again, I
> say "I'm in a hurry, not now", smile and jog to the restroom where I
> change. He's whining to another instructor that I'm rude to him and
> won't listen.

That is rude. I wouldn't avoid him like that.

At Perris this weekend, my wife (Amy) got squeezed between several people on approach. She opted to go right instead of left, and ended up cutting off another guy (an organizer) who had to land out in the dirt. After she landed, he came over with a "hey, can I talk to you for a minute?" and proceeded to lecture her about landing in a traffic pattern.

Now, Amy's landed with 400 other people before in small areas; she knows how to fly in a pattern, and he was just as much at fault as she was. But rather than walking away and saying "can't be bothered! Not now!" or getting in a fight, she said "Sorry you had to land out there; traffic was pretty tight. I'll keep a better eye out for you next time." Problem solved. The guy meant well, even if he was annoying and condescending.

Same sort of thing has happened to me, and to most other skydivers. It's something you have to learn to deal with, and at your level, listening to him and then making your own decision on what to do is probably the best course of action.

[Airman1270 0]

...I'm not sure that i would ever want to jump with you. Seems like you are possibly a hazard to those who are on the same jumprun as you...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Careful here. Nothing has been said yet to indicate he might be a hazard, only that he doesn't jump very often. According to the info presented here, he keeps his dives within the comfortable realm of his current skill set and doesn't take chances.

I took a camera up once, in 1990, to capture my girlfriend's tandem. I had about 175 jumps in more than seven years and didn't fly very well. The dive was cleared with the instructor, who seemed at ease when I said I had no plans to get close.

It was a hand-held instamatic-type camera, with the strap wrapped around my left wrist. I got a beautiful
shot of their exit, then waited a few seconds and followed them out. Tried to get a couple of freefall shots, but every time I brought the camera to my face I went into a turn. Opened at 4000' (to allow extra time for EP's), took a few more shots under canopy, then got a nice one of their landing.

But I digress... There have been times I was hesitant to accept advice from a few certain people. This was because their "advice" frequently consisted of stuff I already knew. I felt I was being talked down to because I didn't make many jumps in any given month. I would have had a much better attitude if these people had expressed interest in jumping with me at least once in a while and treated me like an equal, albeit one whose skills had not developed as quickly as theirs had.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[Acoisa 0]

Quote

I really feel like saying "welcome to America, sorry you had to leave mother russia behind".

I'm still a whuffo (Aff starting shortly) but I do get and have been around the world a lot...
If he's really from Russia then you two have major cultural differences on top of your personality differences. That starts with the American " personal space" thing I got taught back in elemantary school when I lived in the States. Russian people for instance tend to have less problems with that.. etc.

I'm just trying to say that some of the "weird" behavior and attitude you might see might originate from growing up with a different mindset and in a different culture and is not necessarily meant to be offensive. That behavior just might cause you to close up out of whatever reasons (you might think it's uncool, agressive, annoying..).
And who knows maybe he's trying to resolve the conflict in a different way than you would and he's asking himself why you're avoiding him.

Go talk to him about it and try to be open!

On the other hand: with increasing population the percentage of assholes in this world tends to remain the same (total number of assholes rising constantly), he might just be one of them...

edit for clarification

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

It is entirely possible, even likely, that no matter what you say, how you say it or how right you may be, that you will be looked upon as the problem. Many DZO's just don't want to be bothered.

Ed

Unfortunatley EDYDO is 100% correct. Especially since this person is an instructor working there, the dzo will probably put blinders on and take his side and right you off as just a complainer. But then again, you might have have a dzo that might be looking for an excuse to get rid of this guy.

I would talk to the other instructors and see what they say. If nothing else the DZO should at least talk to the guy and maybe he can be told to just not bother you and if he sees you and your group doing something HE doesn't like, then he should have someone else approach you.

Good Luck!

J

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

wow. Crow, i think you need to take a step back and really look at the situation. I only have 54 jumps, and in no way do i think I am above the instructors at my DZ like you seem to think. If ANY of them, come to me with a concern, i will listen, even if it is somone on student status, i will listen... afterall, they may have just been taught something right, and see that i have done it wrong/dangerous. ...

Some places have the grumpy old coot who means well, but can leap to conclusions based on faulty observations. You don't have to blow them off, but nor do you have to accept their word as truth. I had a guy tell me the DZ shouldn't let me go up because I was pushing currency requirements (winter related) and was barely jumping as it was. He was my one of my first instructors, but his memory was off by a couple years on the start, missed the year off , and didn't understand that last year I logged only 20% of my jumps at that particular place. I appreciate his concern, but in this case it was an overreaction. We were fine with each other at the end of the day.

If the OP really does plan to wear his camera, even that samsung pen cam, at a low jump count, well, yeah, defending himself against the the grouch won't work very well. But most of the time it's the most useful course.

[Tenshi 0]

Quote

I really feel like saying "welcome to America, sorry you had to leave mother russia behind"

Guess what saying that would make you sound like...

[Reginald 0]

Quote

I'm dropping my rental chute off and he starts asking me how many jumps I have. I'm assuming he wants to lecture me about a camera, but I'm in a hurry and I don't need to hear it from him anyway. I say "couldn't tell you right off".. he asks again and again, I say "I'm in a hurry, not now", smile and jog to the restroom where I change. He's whining to another instructor that I'm rude to him and won't listen. I leave within 5 minutes with my group as planned.

Well there are always two sides and while he may well have started this all in your mind, based on your statement above you are just as culpable now as he is. You were rude to him. Writing letters never does anything except to generate hard feelings and make both parties look bad. Suck it up and talk to him man to man in a calm professional tone. If you ever want to get this resolved it is your best bet. Good luck and I hope you get it resolved.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[chaoskitty 0]

Hi there..

Sounds like for personality reasons, you guys just dont like each other. I've noticed that I'm one of very few people who think its OK if you don't like everyone and everyone doesnt like you. So what?

But if you're not like that, my advice would be to try to get to know this guy. Maybe if he felt he knew you better, he wouldn't be such a jerk around you.
Maybe he HAS tried to get to know you and you blew him off.. "didn't listen".. or unintentionally slighted him somehow. If he's an instructor, and you are a low time jumper, you at least owe him the respect of your ear and attention. Doesn't mean you have to take his advice. You still have your own mind.

The fact that you posted for advice tells me that the tension bothers you. Try taking a non-confrontational step in his direction. Maybe you guys can learn to accept each other for who you are.

[Skymonkey13 0]

Quote

Well,if no one else at the DZ is giving you crap it must be a personal thing.The DZO is probably as sick of this guy as you are and I see in his future a life like Skymonkey13,bouncing from DZ to DZ cause no one can put up with him for very long.Oh wait,thats my life

.

Well said buddy, but please use a different term than "Bouncing"

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Quote

Try taking a non-confrontational step in his direction

Or you could wack him with a stick until he leaves you alone.

.

[chaoskitty 0]

I'm sore from all the whacking people with sticks and steamrolling last weekend.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I really do feel better since I got to beat the shit out of a few people.



.

[Skymonkey13 0]

Quote

I really do feel better since I got to beat the shit out of a few people.



.

You would'nt do that Chris.....i'm living proof.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

You should have been there.Really.


.

[Skymonkey13 0]

Quote

You should have been there.Really.


.

You know you don't mean that

That just shows me all the more that you don't remember jumping with me at the conv.

Are ya going this year, buddy?

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I really don't remember jumping with you.I'm probably going to Skyfest.If your such a great person you'll quit pushing my buttons.I really don't need the extra shit right now.


.

[Skymonkey13 0]

Quote

I really don't remember jumping with you.I'm probably going to Skyfest.If your such a great person you'll quit pushing my buttons.I really don't need the extra shit right now.


.

I oppoligize Chris, i'll quit teasing you.
I never meant any harm....was just having a good time.

[docwva 0]

Quote

Quote

You were rude and you didn't listen.

I agree!

As an experienced skygod, it is my duty to size up and cut down newbie 100 jump wonders. It is similar to a hazing ritual. I want them to know that I’m watching them. Just hoping they make the tiniest error so I can jump all over them about it!

Sometimes my behavior causes newer jumpers to quit the sport or visit other dropzones just to avoid me. If this happens, I usually find out where they are jumping. I then assign a local skygod to harass them so they can break their spirits also! It’s quite fun, and it’s all in the name of safety.

UntamedDOG

Im not sure this is the way to go about things either. I thought we were supposed to be promoting the sport instead of pushing people away.
I also think this kind of an attitude is a safety issue in itself. It's hard enough to overcome your fears in the first place let alone someone jumping all over you. I guess common sense isn't common.

HIGH SPEED NO DRAG

[UntamedDOG 0]

Quote

It's hard enough to overcome your fears in the first place let alone someone jumping all over you.

Dropzones are just like High Schools. They operate on a class system. Here is a conversion table that should help to illustrate the dropzone hierarchy.

***Top Ranking***
Teachers - (instructors & coaches)
Jocks - (freefly & RW teams)
Cheerleaders - (female tandem passengers)
Nerds - (vidiots & pilots)
Stoners - (riggers)
Janitors - (manifest & packers)
Freaks - (solo freefly jumpers)
Special Ed - (all students and jumpers with 100 jumps or less)
***Lowest Ranking***

As you can see, depending on what category you fit into has a dramatic affect on how others in the lemur herd perceive you.

When a skygod chooses to exercise his rank by dishing out a verbal smack down to a lower classmen, they are simply maintaining the social order that imbecilic humans are so eager to perpetuate.


UntamedDOG

[Cloudi 0]

Quote

***Top Ranking***
Teachers - (instructors & coaches)
Jocks - (freefly & RW teams)
Cheerleaders - (female tandem passengers)
Nerds - (vidiots & pilots)
Stoners - (riggers)
Janitors - (manifest & packers)
Freaks - (solo freefly jumpers)
Special Ed - (all students and jumpers with 100 jumps or less)
***Lowest Ranking***

I feel really left out. I'm definitely somewhere in the Freaks/Special Ed category, but my love of small, informal RW and a couple more jump #'s keep me out of both groups. Maybe I'm the slow-blossoming Jocks/Rocker Chick/Stoner medley?

Woe-is-me, but maybe someday I will belong...

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[UntamedDOG 0]

Quote

I thought we were supposed to be promoting the sport instead of pushing people away.

When a skygod chooses to exercise his rank by dishing out a verbal smack down to a lower classmen, they are simply maintaining the social order that imbecilic humans are so eager to perpetuate.

UntamedDOG

[Skymonkey13 0]

Quote

Quote

***Top Ranking***
Teachers - (instructors & coaches)
Jocks - (freefly & RW teams)
Cheerleaders - (female tandem passengers)
Nerds - (vidiots & pilots)
Stoners - (riggers)
Janitors - (manifest & packers)
Freaks - (solo freefly jumpers)
Special Ed - (all students and jumpers with 100 jumps or less)
***Lowest Ranking***

Well Dog, you left out Sky God - (UntamedDOG) off your list.

• Quote

[mjosparky 3]

The difference is if you want to give advice and be taken seriously you should be willing to give people something to reference that advice to. Quite often good advice is ignored because people might think it lacks validity. Sees simple to me.

There is not need to give out the PIN to your ATM but a little back ground would be nice.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[obelixtim 100]

I really fail to see why you can't just front up to him and sort it out properly face to face.....

He may not agree, and may not like you even, but so what!!!!. At least you've cleared the air and both of you will then know exactly where you stand......

They way you're dealing with it now isn't working, so what have you got to lose.....

It sounds like he might be a bit of an idiot if your story about his verbal diarrhoea on the radio is true, but reading about your "problem" and methods of handling it, it all seems rather pathetic to me.....

Just sort it out once and for all and quit being such a wimp.......

If you could spend a bit more time skydiving you wouldn't have time to worry about all this other bullshit......

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[AlphaCrow 0]

I need to thank you all for the advice. Sometimes you just need to say something out loud and see how it sounds to others, I probably am over reacting. I will try to speak with him next time I'm out there :)

I noticed some think it's a matter of skydiving, but I disagree. It's all personality. He could come talk to me about Taco Bell (which I love dearly) and just the way he approaches me rubs me the wrong way. I hate to sound pompous, but being in the military with NO rights at all (prisoners get treated better) and being ordered around has made me go the opposite way as a free man :)
I respond well to "Hey, can I speak with you?" (read, ASKS for me time) versus "Hey, come here, I need to tell you something" while standing ten feet away and pointing at the ground in front of you like I'm going to heel.

In the end, I think that's about 90% of the problem and I'll try to bring this up with him. You can ASK another person for his time, but you should not TELL them. I think that it's incredibly disrespectful and condescending. Then to stand there and touch my forearm every few seconds... sigh.

Well, pray for a positive outcome. I'll do what I should have done to start with... punch him out. Wait, I mean, speak with him about what I have see as problematic, though I intend to be firm about how he needs to ask me for time first (that will make or break the conversation with me) and not touch me (I just don't like it, it makes me very uncomfortable).

Thank you all, I remember why I like this sport so much. A lot of it is for the positive community.

I'll post again in a week or so after I speak with him. Be safe!

• Quote