Strobe for Daylight Visibility?

[xsynergist 0]

Has anyone considered the usefulness of strapping a battery powered xenon strobe on during a jump? They are visible in daylight up to 800 meters according to some sites. Seems to me that they would be an inexpensive and effective safety device for avoiding other jumpers and visibility to aircraft.

Comments Please.

[quade 3]

I think a -much- better idea would be to purchase a high-visibility canopy.

I'll admit that I was in a bind when I bought my second canopy and took a stock one over a custom one, but my original canopy is alternating cells of blue and tangerine. If anyone claims they didn't see me under -that- canopy I know they just weren't looking.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[xsynergist 0]

I was thinking Freefall visibility as well. It could keep you from a collision before opening. Any thoughts on that? I am also interested in knowing any possible negatives. Lets assume that the method of attachment of the strobe was snagproof and lets go from there.

[quade 3]

Quote

I was thinking Freefall visibility as well. It could keep you from a collision before opening.

If you're worried about a collision with another skydiver, then I don't think a strobe is your answer. If you're far enough away that you need the strobe to be seen, then you're probably not an issue.

If you're worried about a collision with an aircraft while you're in freefall, then you're barking up the wrong tree too. If you look at the angles of intercept you'll quickly realise that an aircraft has pretty much no chance of ever seeing you. In fact, even the FAA has sort of admitted as much as they don't require lights in freefall, only from canopy opening to landing. http://uspa.org/publications/SIM/2004SIM/section9part105.htm#10519

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[xsynergist 0]

Thank you for the feedback. It is helping me to clarify my thinking. What prompted my interest is that this month two different fatalities have occurred due to collision in the air. One of these was from one jumper falling into another as he was deploying. In my experience a strobe will get your attention even if you focus is elsewhere. My thinking is that these types of fatalities could possibly be avoidable with earlier positional awareness. In addition to the strobe an audible alert might also be considered once under canopy. Some thing similar to trucks backup whistle perhaps. What I am trying to determine here is if there are practical reasons for NOT utilizing such active safety devices.

[quade 3]

Most mid-air collisions happen because the people are -very- close to each other all throughout the event. All the people had to do was look in the right direction and be aware. It's usually not the case that the reason the collision takes place is that they were difficult to see in the periphery, but rather the people weren't looking to begin with.

Whistles -might- be entertaining for people on the ground, but in freefall they'd be pretty useless, although I know of one big-way jumper that does use one under canopy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,435]

>Seems to me that they would be an inexpensive and effective safety
> device for avoiding other jumpers and visibility to aircraft.

I don't think this would help much. People do not collide because they look in the direction of another jumper and do not see him against the haze/clutter/darkness - they collide because they simply never look in the direction of the other jumper. A strobe doesn't work if the other person never looks at you.

[bch7773 0]

main problem i see is that during RW, you might end up with a strobe going off in your face several times, and thats no fun.

i think if you want to be really well seen in both freefall and under canopy, get a neon colored jumpsuit and canopy.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[AggieDave 6]

Well, I guess we're back to our safety whistles...

Or maybe folks should unplant their head and look around under canopy? We're all guilty of doing it at times, but it seems to be something about certain jumpers who refuse to look around and require doing atleast 5-10 spirals over the main landing area right after opening, through traffic.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[xsynergist 0]

According to the figures posted on this site 15% of the fatalities so far this year have been from collisions. 1 under free fall and 5 under canopy. These would seem to be avoidable by a greater range of awareness. I being new to the sport have noticed that in the intensity of the experience I tend to focus on the steps I have to take in order to complete the dive to the exclusion of all else. A brightly flashing light or a high pitched beeping might attract my attention toward a possible collision in time to take evasive action. You are correct in saying that people should be aware and look around but sometimes they just don't. Would an audio or visual attention getter have made a difference in any of these collisions? I can't help but wonder. I respect all or your opinions and have read many posts by each of you. I appreciate your feedback. Does anyone see potential here? Has anyone had a close call where something of this nature might have helped? I'll stop beating this horse now and just watch and see if it dies...

[mattjw916 2]

If someone isn't paying attention, it won't matter WTF the other people in the sky are wearing whether they be flashy lights or neon canopies/jumpsuits.

Kinda like the daytime running lights on cars... how many accidents do you really think they have prevented... likely very few if any.

Also, motorcycles are required to have their headlights on during the day in most states, do you really think that if some soccer mom sipping her 1400oz "Atkins friendly" diet coke while driving her minivan and yelling at her ten kids in the back who makes a left hand turn right in front of you will suddenly be jarred back to reality by a flashing headlight? I think not...

Just like the "spare air" question for water jumps a while back... this would just be another thing to break, snag, or contribute to a malfunction IMHO.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

I am also interested in knowing any possible negatives.

All I have to add, in addition to what others have already said, is the potential to blind your fellow skydivers by blinking a bright light in their eyes, which could actually make spotting other people even more difficult.

You especially don't want to do it in a night freefall formation. Save it for under canopy.

[xsynergist 0]

My proposal is for daylight use only. Daytime running lights are proven to work by increasing contrast between an object and its background. Interestingly enough I suggested carrying emergency air while paraglding over water to my instructor. The idea was to create the time needed to safely extract yourself from the harness without panic. Obviously these types of ideas come from the same mindset. I look at the facts surrounding known fatalities that have resulted from the sport and try to think what would make a difference. Car airbags are a result of this kind of thinking. Airbags kill people as well as save them but they save more than they kill. Perhaps my proposal is impractical and may even have negative consequences but the question remains. Do the potential benefits appear to outweigh the potential risks enough to perhaps warrant a closer look? Your comments are appreciated.

[velvetjo 0]

I'm not sure it would be too helpful in daylight conditions. I'm used to looking for daytime strobes on aircraft at untowered airports, but they're still pretty hard to see. Talk to some local pilots and get their thoughts if you want feedback from people who actually look for strobes in their scan.

I agree with the other posts that bright colors are a great way to be seen, especially contrasting ones so that you stand out against multiple backgrounds. That's one of the reasons my gear is yellow & black. See & avoid.

Lance

PS - No, I won't wear a VHF radio either!

[PhreeZone 15]

Noise is'nt going to work because if its loud enough to be heard in freefall or under canopy by some one 200 feet away (Far enough away to make a course change under canopy to avoid collision) its going to be loud enough to cause deafness to the jumper carring it. Not to mention you would never be able to hear someone elses noise over your own noisemaker.

Best idea is to keep your head on a swivel and fly like everyone is trying to kill you at all times.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[FrogNog 1]

You've said a few times it's about positional awareness, and I totally agree.

In freefall, I believe positional awareness starts on the ground and in the plane. Groups are supposed to separate properly so when they break off and track for a correct amount of time, no person is directly above or under any other person, from their own group or another group. (And people aren't supposed to pull high, have premature mid-freefall container openings, or track for extended periods parallel to the line of flight.) And for people flying around in freefall, knowing what was the line of flight is the "positional awareness" appropriate for freefall.

If someone freefalls past a deploying/open canopy 50' away, it seems to me that is a separation screwup plain and simple.

Under canopy, it's heads-on-swivels as people say. (And not being a traffic asshat, as people say.) Neon orange canopies help too.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[xsynergist 0]

Thanks Phree. I always enjoy your posts. I hadn't considered that point concerning the audible alert. I imagined it as an intermittent high pitched short beep every few seconds. In order for you not to hear a fellow jumper they would have to be perfectly in phase. This could be avoided with a simple random timing circuit. Mounted perhaps on the bottom of your container facing backwards it wouldn't be very loud to you but people approaching you from behind should get a heads up. Such a device could be made small and rather cheaply. Keep those comments coming.

[xsynergist 0]

Look at my thread in the Gear and rigging forum concerning wing color and UV degradation. The brightest colors are safer from a visibility perspective but they degrade much faster when exposed to UV. I personally value safety over wing life but that is so easy to rationalize because I want bright colors anyway... UV breaks down the fabric faster increasing porosity which changes the dynamic of the wing and weakens the structure. So what to do when buying a used wing??? But thats off topic. Thanks for the input.