Coming off of AFF and jump counts

[dweeb 0]

At what point do your jump counts start?

Is it with your first AFF or first tandem or after you've become qualified?

Thanks

[indyz 1]

A jump is a jump. Log 'em all.

[jumpinfarmer 0]

The first time you leave a plane in flight you log it. They all count as jumps.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

All jumps count. Even tandem jumps.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[skylord 1]

All jumps count, but I think you can only count so many tandems towards your A license requirements.

Bob

Bob Marks

"-when you leave the airplane its all wrong til it goes right, its a whole different mindset, this is why you have system redundancy." Mattaman

[dweeb 0]

thanks everyone for your help.

:thumbup:

[FrenchyDiver 0]

Not exactly. All jumps count, including any number of tandem jumps. What counts towards the A license is achieving the TLOs (Targeted Learning Objectives, as specified on the first page of each level in the case of the USPA SIM manual) for each level. No matter how many jumps (of any type) the student has. In the US, the minimum required is 25, and there is no maximum number of jumps.
Blues

Frenchy

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[Andy9o8 0]

Absolutely - all jumps count toward your "personal" jump count, including tandems. In each one, you overcame your fear and made the jump, right? So it counts.

Look at how many people nowadays with TI ratings and 50% or better of their jumps being TI jumps - you think they don't count their TI jumps toward their personal jump count? They sure do.

[chrismgtis 0]

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What counts towards the A license is achieving the TLOs

I'm assuming that means for example if I complete Level 1 (do everything correctly and pass to the next leve), this counts as 1 jump. Though if I make my Level 2 jump and need to redo it because I didn't complete all the objectives of that dive, then I have to take it again and it won't count as a dive towards the 25 until I complete Level 2.

My tandem would count as a dive also even though there aren't really any objectives in a tandem?

Is that right?

But then again it looks like most people here are saying everything counts as a jump if it's a jump. So even though I need to repeat Level 2 and I've made 1 tandem (1 Tandem, 2 AFF jumps, but need to repeat Level 2) that means I still have 3 jumps counted towards my 25.

Which one is right? :P

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[FrenchyDiver 0]

Hi Chris,

Quote

I'm assuming that means for example if I complete Level 1 (do everything correctly and pass to the next leve), this counts as 1 jump. Though if I make my Level 2 jump and need to redo it because I didn't complete all the objectives of that dive, then I have to take it again and it won't count as a dive towards the 25 until I complete Level 2.

My tandem would count as a dive also even though there aren't really any objectives in a tandem?

Is that right?

Absolutely, a dive is a dive

Quote

But then again it looks like most people here are saying everything counts as a jump if it's a jump. So even though I need to repeat Level 2 and I've made 1 tandem (1 Tandem, 2 AFF jumps, but need to repeat Level 2) that means I still have 3 jumps counted towards my 25.

Which one is right? :P

Yes that's right, every jump, no matter what kind of jump it is, does count towards the minimum of 25 required.

As per your example,
- 1 tandem without any particular objective to achieve = 1 jump
- Level 1 = 1 jump
- Repeat Level 2 = 2 jumps

Total jumps to date = 4 jumps
Remaining towards your license = 21 jumps

However, yes, you will have to achieve sucessfully the required objectives. Which means that if you have to repeat several levels several times you would obtain your license with more than the minimum 25. It could be after 30 or 40 jumps or whatever the number of jumps it will take you to achieve the learning objectives.

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[chrismgtis 0]

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Absolutely, a dive is a dive

I gotcha.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[popsjumper 2]

Funny..well, maybe not.

Heard of one girl who broke someting on Jump #45...it was a Level 7 jump. She had 45 jumps but was a LONG way from meeting the requirements on the A-license proficiency card.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kkeenan 13]

It's beyond me how people can justify counting Tandem jumps (as a Passenger) in a total of skydives.

Based upon that logic, I should probably be logging hours in my pilot logbook whenever I'm flying in seat 69A on Delta Airlines. Or claiming freefall hours for tunnel time.

Kevin

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[kelpdiver 2]

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It's beyond me how people can justify counting Tandem jumps (as a Passenger) in a total of skydives.

Why not? It's unlikely to make a difference though - with the number of reqs past the AFF sequence now, it's hard to be done in less than 20 anyway. A few repeats and a few fun jumps - I didn't finish till 31.

So what does it matter?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I agree, I dont think AFF or tandems should count towards numbers .... seriously esp once the jumper is near 100

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

It's beyond me how people can justify counting Tandem jumps (as a Passenger) in a total of skydives.

Based upon that logic, I should probably be logging hours in my pilot logbook whenever I'm flying in seat 69A on Delta Airlines. Or claiming freefall hours for tunnel time.

Your analogies are too remote.
It's because a tandem student still has to overcome his fear to jump, and each jump he makes helps to overcome both door fear and the sensory overload in freefall we all experience as students. If it's a "working tandem", all the more so. Each time under canopy, he gets that much more spatial and altitude awareness dialed in. If he handles the toggles for a while, all the more so.

I acknowledge it's not entirely the same thing as being 100% responsible for saving your own life. But there really is no "½ of a jump" that one can log, so given the choice between crediting a tandem student with 1 jump or 0 jumps on a tandem jump, on balance, I say give them credit for 1 jump.

[christelsabine 1]

Quote

It's beyond me how people can justify counting Tandem jumps (as a Passenger) in a total of skydives.

Based upon that logic, I should probably be logging hours in my pilot logbook whenever I'm flying in seat 69A on Delta Airlines. Or claiming freefall hours for tunnel time.

Kevin

One could argue about the logic. A tandem pax is doing a skydive, that's no question. His very own body is falling out of a plane's door and is doing what? Skydiving ! - until he hits the ground (yes, strapped on a TM), with a soft landing, of course! While he's speeding towards planet earth, he's able to train his skills, trying to move in the air, feeling the air moving his body - I do remember well one of my instructors in Spain who used to do AFF in a South American country where 1st AFF jumps are executed as tandems. He explained it quite well.

A passender sitting relaxed in the plane is not flying the plane. His body is not flying, it's been travelled.

Just my 0.02 EUR cent.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[FrenchyDiver 0]

As a few others replied, I have to disagree with you. Many DZs have integrated the tandem jumps as part of the ISP. That is the case of my home DZ. The 2first jumps are tandems. The first one is as usual oriented to people who want to try skydiving, but the passenger is trained with the perspective that he/she might very well continue. So most of the first tandem jumps are conducted as a working tandem jump. More so the second tandem jump. Afterwards it's the AFF program and so forth.

Regards

Hispas Brothers President
HISPA #2,

[azdiver 0]

i had 3 tandems before i did aff and then did 22 jumps after that to get my a lic, but i also know others that did 30 jumps after their tandems before they were given their a's, i think every jump should count as personal jumps but releasing a student and giving them their a lic should be up to the inst and school
just my 0.02

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak