Landing a Mr. Bill

[freakflyer9999 1]

There is plenty of discussion in another thread about what not to do and how stupid this is. The general consensus seems to be that stunts like this should be performed only by adequately experienced jumpers with significant amounts of planning.

I don't feel that I have the experience, but I'm willing to help someone who does. Let's start planning.

I have a Falcon 300.

Who's up for the task??

[Mad47 0]

Perhaps you misunderstood the general consensus. My impression after reading the threat was that the absolute majority of experienced jumpers (those who have thousands of jumps and who are very current) would never even consider attempting something like that.

Unfortunately, there is a high probability that we will soon hear about new attempts to repeat this move by those who beleive they have "enough experience", use "proper planning" and exercise a "good judgment".

[SkiD_PL8 0]

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There is plenty of discussion in another thread about what not to do and how stupid this is. The general consensus seems to be that stunts like this should be performed only by adequately experienced jumpers with significant amounts of planning.

I don't feel that I have the experience, but I'm willing to help someone who does. Let's start planning.

I have a Falcon 300.

Who's up for the task??

Smells like troll to me...

Greenie in training.

[hookitt 0]

Believe it or not, there are lots of people that don't even know about dz.com, let alone that someone landed a Mr Bill.

Many and most experienced, current, jumpers won't do a lot of things. They won't swoop, they won't freefly ... there's more. It's out of their realm. There's a highly experience organizer at our DZ that has freeflown a a few times but he's decided he doesn't want to start at the beginning again. He sticks with what he does best. He does it quite well too I might add.

Take BASE for instance. Plenty of experienced current skydivers don't comprehend it at all. It's way beyond their capacity of rational thought.

Anything out of the norm is bad for a vast majority of people. Lemmings comes to mind. Follow the leader. Think only what you're told to think and stay inside the box.

==========
To
freakflyer9999

Falcon = nice canopy also known for fast openings.

Does it have dacron lines?
Is there a nice field to land it? (wait you're it Texas, of course there's an big open field somewhere)

Think about extra padding because the extra weight of the jumper on your shoulders transfers right to your harness.

Put cross connectors on the risers. Ask a CRW dawg about that one.

Beyond that, learn how to do MR Bills. Simple Mr bills have knocked people silly. What you're talking about doing, landing it, is not for the meek. Heck It something I'm somewhat impressed by. The deed it self? I'm not so sure I have the nads for it but i'd have to reserve that opinion till after flying a few Mr Bills the traditional method.

Good luck and don't die. Get mass video.

[Mad47 0]

Well I am going to have to argue with you again

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Many and most experienced, current, jumpers won't do a lot of things. They won't swoop, they won't freefly ... there's more. It's out of their realm.
Anything out of the norm is bad for a vast majority of people. Lemmings comes to mind. Follow the leader.

My post was not about being conservative, flowing with the majority and not taking a risk associated with trying something new. In fact, a lot of jumpers who expressed their concerns and anger in a previous thread are pretty aggressive skydivers, good freeflyers, swoopers ect. In contrast, most of those who believe that landing Mr. Bill is pretty damn cool are not falling into this category. All I was trying to say is that there is a possibility that someone from the second group will soon attempt to repeat similar landing. Almost everybody thinks that doing curved swoops under sub 100 cross-braced canopy is pretty cool, but at the some time most will agree this is not something that relative new jumper with a couple of hundred jumps under his belt should attempt.
I love my sport, and I do not want to see people getting hurt simply because they are stupid or do not realize their limits and capabilities. If someone who logged 220 jumps in 10 years is going to attempt a move associated with FAR violation and extremely high probability of injury, he better does it away from my DZ.

[hookitt 0]

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Well I am going to have to argue with you again

Ah Shit... did we argue before?? ... yeah probably. What was it about?

So ya know, I'm not in disagreement with your beliefs. My thoughts are about those who are willing to push boundaries and think for themselves. I certainly understand there's a difference between thinking things out and just simply saying fuck you to those offering sound advice.

The statement you quoted above was more on the lines of how a large portion of experienced folks like to stay with in a certain boundary. Good skydivers and canopy pilots, but those pilots choose not to explore the boundaries of canopy flight. It's all good. I don't think the person who does a slow 90 degree approach with a smooth not so long swoop needs to do any thing more. That same person may or may think it's crazy to do even a simple Mr Bill let alone land it.That same person may have a great plan on how to execute the stunt as well. That's more on the lines of what I'm thinking?

I just re-read that.. I hope it makes sense I'm not going to re-write it.

I know when Hollywood skydives, they do it in places like Bakersfield so no one will see all the rules being broken. Certain hidden rigs come to mind. The fact that John and McBain unveiled the Mr Bill landing at the WFFC may have been what most think to be less than brilliant, does not mean it shouldn't be done.

I don't necessasrily want to do it myself either. Well kinda but thinking about it and doing it are 2 different things altogether. I'm very brave when I'm on the ground

When I started skydiving all I kept hearing about hookturns was. "Don't do hook turns". That was more frustrating than anything. There wasn't the information available like there is now. If it was, I sure didn't know where to find it. One day,after doing a lame ass attempt at a swoop landing, a friend of mine, Frank (R.I.P.) took me aside and said..."Tim, Don't do hook turns, they're dangerous" Then he paused and said... " But I know you're going to do it any way so lets talk about this and I'll get you pointed in the right direction".

The second part was like gold. I've tried to keep that with me my entire career.

While I may think landing a Mr Bill is pretty crazy, I have some very good Ideas on how to do it. That goes along with alot of stunts or manuevers.

If it does break rules, either FAA regs, or personal rules, that's a different story. I'm not willing to argue about regulations. I've jumped through clouds and probably done worse so who am I to argue?

Common sense, and safety and mechanical reasoning? That's where I come in. I'll teach you to be a good save skydiver (as best I can anyway).

So that said, I don't condone a person breaking rules. If it affects my ability to enjoy my hobbies, it shouldn't be done either in that location, or at all. We don't jump skyballs at our dz. The DZO doesn't want us too so we don't. I go up to Skydance or Hollister do that sort of thing.

If Ray would let me land a Mr Bill at his DZ, maybe that's where I'd go to learn how.

There's time and place for everything. You say don't do something at your DZ, that's how it is. I'd still jump there but will abide by the dz regs. You give me permission to say, jump a BASE rig out of your cessna from 500 feet, you gave me permission, it's within the realm of possibilties now.

Enough ramblings! ... what else ya got?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Deuce 1]

Hey, Timmae!

I'd be the sluggo if you want to land a Mr. Bill.

I'll even rent the tandem rig for it. I'm not willing to do it with any other canopy.

I think if you wear the tandem harness, it might even be legal, even if you don't hook it up.

Loopholes. I'm all about loopholes.



We do have to practice it a few times as a traditional Mr. Bill before we land it.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Landing a Mr. Bill is not in violation of any FAR's that I can think of. The FAA doesn't care if you open your parachute or not, only that you are wearing an approved system when you jump out and that you don't bounce on a taxpayer. Do not have Mr. Bill wear only a tandem harness to try to "comply". It's not necessary and it's needlessly dangerous. Funny, that last sentence pretty much describes this whole landing a Mr. Bill thing.

[hookitt 0]

LOL .. .you're funny John.

JP meant wear a tandem harness in addition to my own skydiving rig. No worries, I won't land on a taxpayer.

JP... heck yeah!.. I'm not concerned about the canopy so much but I'd love to do some mr Bill tandems. I know just the way to do it too. Wind permitting, I'll be there tomorrow.

May not want to talk about it on the open forum though

[PhreeZone 15]

Might I suggest contacting a TM in a certian southern state about this? He tried this and had some issues getting the one upper released Funny story to hear about him dangling from the one upper trying to decide if its best to try and land it like that or how to get free.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Mad47 0]

PM sent

[hookitt 0]

You may suggest away. Although, perhaps this tandem thing has also been done before in this area.

Mad ... PM returned. I'm sure the red number may have alerted you

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[freakflyer9999 1]

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I love my sport, and I do not want to see people getting hurt simply because they are stupid or do not realize their limits and capabilities. If someone who logged 220 jumps in 10 years is going to attempt a move associated with FAR violation and extremely high probability of injury, he better does it away from my DZ.

Go back and re-read my post. I stated clearly that I do not have the experience to do this. I am not contemplating attempting it myself.
What I did suggest was that if someone with proper experience wished to try it, I would assist in planning and I even offered my own canopy as a beginning.
As for the FAR violation, I don't believe that the Mr. Bill that was landed in Rantoul violated any FARS, but perhaps part of the planning process should include verifying that with the FAA. Planning includes all aspects of the jump.
I'm also curious which DZ that you own. Of course as part of the planning, the DZO would be contacted. If you own the DZ then you will obviously have the right to say no.

[davelepka 4]

***I stated clearly that I do not have the experience to do this.
================================

Here's the thing, with the possible exception of the two guys from the WFFC, nobody has the experiecne to do this.

Landing a Mr. Bill takes very little in the way of skydiving ability. Being able to pull off a Mr. Bill, and being able to land a canopy is all it takes. Not falling off under 1000ft takes 'holding on' ability, thats about it.

Thnigs that take skydiving ability: Landing a 39 sq ft canopy, building a 300 way, docking a wingsuit with a canopy. These things take 1000's of jumps and careful planning to achieve. That other thing is just holding on.

[auskydiver 0]

Well, I was on the main landing area at Rantoul and witnessed this spectacle. Yes, it shocked everyone, particularly the FAA and it was awsome. Yes, the guys who pulled the Mr. Bill without the Bill, as I like to call it, have moved up to the skydiver-rockstar status and are on their way to becomming legends in the sport. The moment I saw this I knew what would happen: the word and video of it gets out and others are going to do it. I fear that within the year we will probably read at least one if not two fatalities as a result of attempting this stunt. It does not take much skill to do a Mr. Bill but keep in mind the extreme stress the canopy and the harness and container system will be subjected to. I am not familiar but is their anything in the FAR or BSR regarding this? And most importantly if shit happens low (below 1000ft) will you have time to recover??

[The111 1]

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Here's the thing, with the possible exception of the two guys from the WFFC, nobody has the experiecne to do this.

Landing a Mr. Bill takes very little in the way of skydiving ability. Being able to pull off a Mr. Bill, and being able to land a canopy is all it takes. Not falling off under 1000ft takes 'holding on' ability, thats about it.

Heh, that's the truth and I'm glad someone else pointed it out. As far as experience that *could* help out with landing a Mr. Bill - you could do a Mr. Bill from altitude, and every 1000ft "simulate" your landing pattern and the landing flare. Then when it finally comes time for the moment of truth, the "hangee" is used to hanging on for a 1000ft pattern, and the associated turns and flares. Just hope for no really bad turbulence! :)

Or you could wear a BASE rig in case you fall off at 600 ft.

The actual landing (timing of dismount, etc) could not be practiced though. Unless you find a cloud to land on.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mccordia 73]

I remember an old Parachutist magazine which had some b/w photo's of a CRW jump that went bad.
At about a 1000 ft or so one of the guys mains released, while they where in a bi-plane (locked with their legs)

The guy managed to hold on (hanging upside-down on the other jumpers leg) and they landed in a swimming-pool that was on the landingterrain.

That sorta has to count as an emergency MrBill-kinda landing right :)??

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[billvon 2,471]

>Yes, the guys who pulled the Mr. Bill without the Bill, as I like to call it,
> have moved up to the skydiver-rockstar status and are on their way to
>becomming legends in the sport.

Oh, people will forget about it once the "next big thing" happens. Someone will land a 25 sq ft canopy or a wingsuit and they'll be old news. How many people remember Greg's "rigless" jumps now?

[auskydiver 0]

Greg's rigless jump????? Just kidding. He's the one that did that for the Mountain Dew Commercial right?

[hookitt 0]

Greg Gasson didn't do a rigless jump per se, but he did many while only holding on. http://www.joejennings.com/slide1a.htm

Greg and an "unknown" load organizer exited the plane. "Unknown" held on to the Yoke, while Greg held on to the legstraps. After some freefall, Greg pulled and held on.

He's done it many times. Sometimes he would just climb out of his rig and and then hang from the legstraps.

He's landed it it that way to. Not really by choice. He said he didn't leave his legstraps loose enough and wasn't able to climb back in.

[billvon 2,471]

>He's the one that did that for the Mountain Dew Commercial right?

See what I mean? The guy jumps just holding onto his rig, deploys it (still just hanging on to the legstraps) flys it around, gets it on the cover of PARACHUTIST - and he is quickly forgotten. The landed Mr Bill will be forgotten as quickly, never fear.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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http://www.joejennings.com/slide1a.htm[/url]


He's done it many times. Sometimes he would just climb out of his rig and and then hang from the legstraps.

He's landed it it that way to. Not really by choice. He said he didn't leave his legstraps loose enough and wasn't able to climb back in.

I've never met Greg but I've seen his videos. I could see the safety harness under his jumpsuit and spot the cables running out his sleeve to his rig. I've been told he always did it that way. Not to demean his work. The fact that he can do it safely through planning and special equipment actually is more impressive to me than any stunt.

[Frenchy68 0]

Rantoul's Mr Bill Landing

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[hookitt 0]

Yep~!! pretty cool huh?

He showed me the rig one year down where he lives. He let me take a pretty good look at it. Some of his other Ideas are very top notch. I hope he goes through with one in particular some day. It's not a dangerous stunt but it's very clever and will deceive all but the most observant eye.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Yep~!! pretty cool huh?

He showed me the rig one year down where he lives. He let me take a pretty good look at it. Some of his other Ideas are very top notch. I hope he goes through with one in particular some day. It's not a dangerous stunt but it's very clever and will deceive all but the most observant eye.

You can see the connection on his wrist in the Good Stuff DVD if you pay attention. Even with his rock climbing background I doubt Greg could hold on during deployment.

My question about his stunts is when he climbs out of the harness and hangs by his legs from the leg straps. I looked and never saw anything holding him onto the harness, esp during the part when he reaches up to get back into the harness. Did I miss something connected to his ankle?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....