BOC or PUD

[flyingarab 0]

Ok. I am getting tired of hearing all the crap about BOC vs. PUD and I want to know from some people that are more skilled....which is better. The BOC or the PUD?

Sincerely,

FlyingArab
www.flyingarab.com

[diablopilot 2]

<-----sound of someone repeatedly kicking a dead horse.


FYI: A "PUD" is a type of handle. Kinda like "hackey" is. "BOC" stands for Bottom of Container where both most modern throw out pilot chutes, and the pud handle for most pull out deployment systems are located.

Please try to use the correct termanology as confusion happens when it is not.

FWIW: I prefer the pull out by far.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[winsor 187]

Quote

Ok. I am getting tired of hearing all the crap about BOC vs. PUD and I want to know from some people that are more skilled....which is better. The BOC or the PUD?

It's a matter of opinion, basically.

I, personally, prefer the standard Racer PUD, but have rigs with both BOC and PUD. In both cases you're reaching for a handle in the same place, and the both work just fine (in general). When the pullout was first introduced, it was going up against the bellyband-mounted throwout, so there were more significant differences between the two systems.

The biggest drawback to the BOC, from where I sit, is the potential for an open container with the pilot chute still stowed. A high speed malfunction that requires the reserve pilot chute and freebag to clear the mess trailing behind you is not always survivable.

Pilot chute extraction problems and pilot chute malfunctions (usually because of entanglement between hackey and bridle) seem less likely to occur with pullouts, as well.

All things being equal, the comfort factor of the jumper is a big consideration. It's your life on the line, and if you have your procedures down pat with one, you may well stick with it. Hesitation kills, and if you are uncomfortable with a system - even if it's "better" - your actions may not be as swift and sure as with the system you trust.

They have both been used successfully for millions of jumps, and it is largely a matter of personal preference.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[JohnMitchell 14]

My rigs all have pullouts, but my wife jumps throw outs. I've had two totals with pullouts, but, of course, the reserve deployment is very clean, since there is no pilot chute in tow.

[billbooth 10]

Over 95% of all the rigs we make are throw-out, so the market has pretty much made up its mind. It seems that, overall, pull-outs have a much higher total malfunction rate than throw-outs. I prefer throw-outs, but both systems work OK.

[teason 0]

Pullouts often fell victim to the dreaded floating dildo malfunction. Usually when you spent a great deal of time in the crotch.(sounds dirty don't it)

I loved my pullout but doing 1000 IADs a year gave me concerns. I'm still debating on my next set.

I wonder which is better for freeflyers as they often have their pack in the wind.
Is it a floting dildo vs. premature deployment arguement?
opinions?

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[wingnut 0]

i prefer a throwout... have flown a friends rig on several ocasions doing tandem video oand the damn thing would always get stuck inmy burble if i wasn't careullto make sure i gave it a really good throw and closed my wingsall the way...... with a throw out it is ws let effort for me.. besides,i can't use a pull out in my birdman suit.....

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

Over 95% of all the rigs we make are throw-out, so the market has pretty much made up its mind. It seems that, overall, pull-outs have a much higher total malfunction rate than throw-outs. I prefer throw-outs, but both systems work OK.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When I worked at Rigging Innovations, more than 90% of sport rigs had throw-out and the majority of them were BOC.
Many Telesis were shipped with static-lines or main ripcords, but by the mid 1990s, schools were rapidly changing to BOC.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Quote

The BOC or the PUD

I've got both on my rig.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

Over 95% of all the rigs we make are throw-out, so the market has pretty much made up its mind. It seems that, overall, pull-outs have a much higher total malfunction rate than throw-outs. I prefer throw-outs, but both systems work OK.

Pull outs have a much lower Pilot-chute-in-tow rate.

But you're right, Bill. I've got two totals for about 3200 pullout jumps.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

I loved my pullout but doing 1000 IADs a year gave me concerns. I'm still debating on my next set.

I'm confused on why that makes a difference. I'm not IAD rated, but am S/L rated, so I've spent a lot of time in the door. Both handles are in the same place, and a low profile pud seems, to me, to be less likely to snag than a hackey, pipe, or monkey fist. None have ever caused me problems while JM'ing. What is your position in the door while IAD jumpmastering?

[crutch 0]

Pullout is my vote, although I have had to put together a rig with a throwout (BOC) to do my birdman suit jumps with. I have had zero totals in about 4000 jumps with pullouts, so I have never thought of it as a problem. The biggest problem with people jumping pullouts is not pulling your arm far enough away from the container for the pilot chute to catch air (thus sitting on the burble on your back).

blue skies,

art

[teason 0]

We IAD students in the hanging position from a 182. That requires trhe instructor to follow the student out of the plane. The instructor climbs completely out, usually with his back or side to the relative wind, standing on the step.

Because the instructor climbs in and out 3 times per load, a floating handle can become a hazzard.

I knew an instrucor whose floating handle got snagged and had his main deploy. He struck the tail blowing all the rivets on on side of the plane. Luckily, he only cracked a couple of ribs.

Many IAD dispatchers I know have BOCs and stuff their handles deep in their pouches while dropping students.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Canuck 0]

I'm still not making the connection. In fact, I see a pullout being safer for IAD dispatches. If you dislodge a throwout while climbing out to dispatch, you're done. If you dislodge a pull out handle, chances are it's just going to dangle there unless you subsequently snag it climbing back in or on the next climbout.

I know when I do IADs I reach back and check my handle between each student, plus our pilots are trained to watch for that kind of stuff.

I jump a throw out by the way.

Canuck

[FrogNog 1]

Quote

If you dislodge a throwout while climbing out to dispatch, you're done. If you dislodge a pull out handle, chances are it's just going to dangle there unless you subsequently snag it climbing back in or on the next climbout.

Dislodging a throw-out requires extracting the entire PC from the pouch before it will deploy. Just bumping the handle shouldn't be worrisome with a tight BOC pocket, and if the handle is a hacky then it might not even be any harder to grab at the end of freefall than normal.

Rubbing the pin or snagging the pin end of the bridle and opening the main container is a possibility on both pull-out and throw-out systems, and it's bad either way for an instructor standing outside the plane in flight. I don't characterize it as a fault but in the pull-out case, pin extraction means immediate deployment...

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[teason 0]

I think a BOC is way les likely to dislodge than a pullout handle. Also, with a BOC, you can tuck the handle in to prevent in from happening.

The first pullout I had was due to this same debate. I had a leg pull with a pvc handle. on one climb out the tube went right over the pilot's seat lever. As I climbed out, I could feel the pc slide out of the pouch.

I also saw the same thing happen to an instructor who got out of the plane between loads (after the plane landed). He had no idea his pc was snagged until his bag hit the ground!
After that I went to a pullout.

I noticed my pullout was prone to floating and after talking with another instrucor who hit the tail, I went to BOC (with a hacky!). I havent seen a problem yet.
That's just my observations on the 2 different deployment systems. If I could find a pullout with a handle I was more confident with, I would get it, until then ...

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

I don't characterize it as a fault but in the pull-out case, pin extraction means immediate deployment...

No faster in reality than a throw out, unless you count that horseshoe on a throwout as not being a "deployment"

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

If I could find a pullout with a handle I was more confident with, I would get it, until then ...

Your profile says you jump a Racer. I've owned two of those with pullouts, as well as a Javelin and an Infinity w/pullouts. Are the Racers still using the round pud with the flex shaft in it and the two pockets? Those seemed more exposed, to me. My Infinity has a handle more like a cutaway pillow, with very good protection. I've had no problem with it, yet.

I did have a pin get popped on my Javelin on a screwed up climbout from the Otter. I felt something funny, looked down, and saw my pilot chute on the middle float's thigh. I didn't wait for the count to go. Now I always give a glance downwind as I climb out, just checking, ya know.

[teason 0]

Actually, my pullout was on a vector. Had my old rigger convert it for me. Not bad work, although the bridle was about 2 1/2 feet too short!

I'll be down in DeLand in the next few months (hopefully for hogflop). I want to see how they're doing their pullouts so that I can decide if I want to stay BOC or go back to pullout for my next Racer.
Besides, I'm tired of IADs. Tandems are more fun!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

I'll be down in DeLand in the next few months (hopefully for hogflop). I want to see how they're doing their pullouts so that I can decide if I want to stay BOC or go back to pullout for my next Racer.

Stop by Mirage while you're there. They have (IMO) the single nicest pull-out design avaliable on the market right now.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Racers are good rigs. You might also take a look at the Infinity, being made up here in Seattle by Kelly Farrington. The quality is second to none, the value is excellent, and the wait time, I think, is about 6 weeks. My wife and I are both very happy with ours, including the pullout setup.