Should 6 Year Olds Do Tandems? (Was: 15-year-old needs tandem)

[dragon2 0]

We take kids from 6 years, usually skydiver's kids but yes we do. Regular tandem age is advised age 10 and up at our DZ, some other DZ's here have 12 and up for instance. Our criteria are that the kid (and not just the parent) must want it and that they fit into the small harness we have. And they get an experienced TM (because of the lack of weight).

We had a 9yr old dropzone kid doing her 2nd tandem at night
On of our country's DZO's took his 2yr old on a tandem once, we don't take them THAT young though at our DZ. I think 5 is our youngest?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[OATSF14 0]

We take kids from 6 years, usually skydiver's kids but yes we do.***

Good for you. My boy was a dz rat and I had to do some searching to find a place for him to do his tandem and aff since he was underage.

[Tonto 1]

I took my daughter at age 8, with her mom's consent. She did another one 2 weeks later after thinking about it a bit. (She'd been nagging me since she was 3.)

My other daughter is now 8 and is on the same path it seems. Nag, nag, nag. I'm no longer a TM, so we'll have to think about this a bit.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[chrismgtis 0]

Dayum, did I spark a huge debate? I didn't exactly mean that allowing your 6 year old child to skydive should be a felony exactly, it was just a comment pointing out that it isn't very smart.

You have to agree though that if a child that young died in a jump accident, it could ruin the fun for the rest of us. Is it worth the risk? I don't think so. No, I know it's not. Fuck that. Pure and simple.

I think you should have to be 18, no exceptions (or whatever age the law allows you to sign away your own life).

The military allows it at 17. I signed up for the military when I had just turned 17 and went into basic at 17 years old about 7 months later with a contract signed for Infantry.

I don't think, even at 17 that I realized exactly what I was getting myself into and that I was not able to make smart decisions that would greatly influence my life. Hell, I am 24 years old and I just now feel like I am mature enough to make smart decisions in my life and still have a ways to go.

I may not be the most mature young adult as I make plenty of mistakes, but I try very hard to learn from them. I feel that I'm more mature than maybe 85% of people my age that I've met and was way more mature than the teenagers my age when I was a teen, but not really any smarter about making important life decisions, cause I screwed up plenty of times. Though I wasn't out smoking pot, drinking alcohol, beating people up for the fun of it and killing people when I was a teenager, which is more or less what many teenagers do these days.

Really it doesn't matter, cause it's not my concern what others do unless it influences me and if I had a problem with anyone under 18 jumping and risking death which could harm a sport I participate in and love and influence my ability to be able to jump years from now, I'm obviously not going to be for it.

I think any establishment that takes money from individuals and puts them on a plane for the purpose of jumping out of an airplane should have to follow laws and rules that govern all USPA dropzones. If someone wants to go up in a friends Cessna and jump out over a municipal airport, then thats great, no problem there as long as their a USPA member with a USPA license.

If I've not made myself clear, my concern is is their potential to hurt this sport? At that age, their definately is potential. I'm not going to try and say that jumping is the only thing that makes me happy, but I know without a doubt I'm a much happier person that I've found something else in life that I love, can be a part of and am able to do. I don't want anyone risking my freedom to jump. We can all agree on that. I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't absolutely love this sport, or you wouldn't have as many jumps as the majority of you do.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[Peej 0]

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my oldest son did a tandem in South Africa at 6 and the TM there took his son for a tandem at age of 3 I think and I believe has done more since.

That would be Chris Grosch and his son Travis. Trav was three the first time he did one and he didn't dig it so much, he was fine under canopy but the freefall scared the pants off him. Let me just be clear that the first one was his idea and there was no pushing from his dad. his dad then left it alone for ages and about two years later Trav came back and said that he'd like to do another one, after much consideration his dad said cool - trav LOVED it and has since done another three of four i think.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[billvon 2,400]

>Should taking your kid to McDonalds be a felony?

No. If you are making the argument that taking a child to McDonald's poses a similar risk to taking him on a tandem - you and I are on different planets when it comes to this.

[SwampThing 0]

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Trav was three the first time he did one and he didn't dig it so much, he was fine under canopy but the freefall scared the pants off him. Let me just be clear that the first one was his idea and there was no pushing from his dad.

And the Crock Hunters baby said dangle me as bait dad!

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[Peej 0]

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And the Crock Hunters baby said dangle me as bait dad!

From tonto's post about his daughter's tandem: She'd been nagging me since she was 3.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[kelpdiver 2]

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There are what, about 20,000 'active' skydivers in the U.S., and about 20 a year go in...I'd bet ya if one in a thousand McDonald's 'regular' eaters bought the farm, it WOULD become a felony to take your kid there!

In fairness, the tandem customers (who typically do 1 jump, maybe 2) only have a fatality rate on order of 1:100000 (or higher). But that would still be a couple thousand McDonald's customers a year, so yeah, they'd be shut down or hurting for customers pretty quickly. Just look what happens when someone plants a finger in the chili!

[Tonto 1]

USPA blah blah jumping years from now, blah blah, spoiling the sport for me blah blah.

You chose to reply to me - why I don't know. My post was factual. There was no debate.

There's more to skydiving than the USA. Look at the profiles of the people saying they have jumped with under 18 kids and you'll see the bulk of us are not from the USA. We're from the world - that's the part of the planet that's not the USA.

My child has spent 13 years on a DZ and has more DZ experience than you will have for another 12 years.

Go enforce your own rules, and leave those who are not breaking any of their laws alone, or alternately lets chat again when you're in your 40's and have a lifetime in the sport, and your own kids.

That's the way I feel, anyway.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[NickDG 23]

>>a guy taking what appeared to be about a 5 year old...ON A BASE JUMP.
He wasn't five years old. That would be nuts. Give us BASE jumpers a little credit.

He was twelve . . .

NickD
BASE 194

[OATSF14 0]

Go enforce your own rules, and leave those who are not breaking any of their laws alone***

Bravo

[Andrewwhyte 1]

What is this 'world' you speak of? The next thing you will tell me that you have professional main packers who have not taken a two week course on how to pack reserves. Don't you know that's an FAA violation?

[Tonto 1]

My packers name is Justice. He's 40 something - not sure of his true age and he smokes a lot of dope. He's a good friend, and we've known each other about 15 years. He doesn't skydive, and no, he's never been on a packing course. He's 100% legal to pack here.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[airtwardo 6]

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>>a guy taking what appeared to be about a 5 year old...ON A BASE JUMP.
He wasn't five years old. That would be nuts. Give us BASE jumpers a little credit.

He was twelve . . .

NickD
BASE 194

My Bad....


Guess what magazine I have that shows the pic?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[georgerussia 0]

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You cannot avoid taking a child to the doctor - thus transportation is necessary.

But you can call the ambulance. Or take a bus. Those types of transportation are statistically safer than driving your own car.

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You are correct that you can reduce it, and thus reduce his risk. But there is no need for skydiving at all.

And there is no _need_ for kung fu class, riding a bycicle or even a roller coaster as well. Should it be a felony too?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[billvon 2,400]

>But you can call the ambulance. Or take a bus. Those types of
>transportation are statistically safer than driving your own car.

Yes, they are. And yes, you can take your kid to the doctor in a bus. And an ambulance, bus or car are all much safer than skydiving.

>And there is no _need_ for kung fu class, riding a bycicle or even a roller
>coaster as well. Should it be a felony too?

If you are interested in discussing this rationally, I'd be happy to. Until then, have a good day.

[NickDG 23]

Okay, he was really 9-years old, I'll split the diff with ya . . .

And it was BASELine Magazine 1988 . . .

Here's a follow up photo.

NickD BASE 194

[georgerussia 0]

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I didn't exactly mean that allowing your 6 year old child to skydive should be a felony exactly, it was just a comment pointing out that it isn't very smart.

But you did not explain why it isn't very smart, comparing to other activities parents allow their children to do. Like going to martial arts, or riding a bycicle.

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I think you should have to be 18, no exceptions (or whatever age the law allows you to sign away your own life).

Why you should be 18? Why not 16, and not 21? Do you think something magical happens at midnight in the day of your 18th birthday, making you responsible and grown up?

And, AFAIK, there is no law which would allow you to sign away your life.

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I don't think, even at 17 that I realized exactly what I was getting myself into and that I was not able to make smart decisions that would greatly influence my life.

That's just your experience. I have seen a lot of 14yo who were able to make reasonable decisions, and I have seen a lot of 20+yo who were not. Using age as one's ability to make smart decisions is the same as using "time in sport" to measure skydiving experience - it could work in general, but might be not applicable to a speficic person.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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If you are interested in discussing this rationally, I'd be happy to. Until then, have a good day.

We _are_ discussing it rationally. When we signed up our daugher to kung fu class, we were talked about possible injury or death, and had to sign the waiver, which was almost a copy of a skydiving waiver I sign on every dropzone I jumped. And while the chance of death in kung fu is approximately lower than in tandem skydiving, the chance of injury is greater - and she already has had two.

At the same time, a lot of people would say that going to kung fu class has little value to child. Yes, it is kind of exercising, but there are much safer exercise activities, like jogging and swimming, which provide the same (or better) level of exercise, and are much safer than kung fu. And, unlike tandem skydiving, when you do one jump and if you landed safely there is no more risk of injury or death - I know no child who jumps tandems on regular basis - a typical child goes to kung fu three-four times a week for a long period of time, and risks injury or death every time when the child is exercising.

So what's the real difference?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[billvon 2,400]

>So what's the real difference?

The difference is that transportation in a car/bus/ambulance is a much less risky endeavor, and has much more benefit to the child than skydiving. Comparing the two is absurd. (As is comparing skydiving to children's athletics.)

I mean, it can be a fun game. We could do it with anything. Shooting a weapon into the air in a city is a felony? Why? If you start your car, it could lurch forward into a crowd and kill everyone! Starting your car should be a felony too! Heck, walking outside should be a felony! You could run into someone and kill them.

A fun game, but reductio ad absurdum of this sort is not rational.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Why you should be 18? Why not 16, and not 21? Do you think something magical happens at midnight in the day of your 18th birthday, making you responsible and grown up?

Because lacking a better method, you have to pick a point, and in the US, that is 18, corresponding roughly with the high school graduation age.

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At the same time, a lot of people would say that going to kung fu class has little value to child. Yes, it is kind of exercising, but there are much safer exercise activities, like jogging and swimming, which provide the same (or better) level of exercise, and are much safer than kung fu.

I'd argue that swimming/running that their share of injuries - in high school I pulled or tweaked just about every muscle/joint below the waist and by the end of my track days needed to warm up for 4-8 laps just to make the knee feel normal before a race.

Martial arts engages the brain to a much higher degree as well.

All 3 do much more for the body than a skydive, with far lower risk of death or serious (femur) injury.

[georgerussia 0]

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The difference is that transportation in a car/bus/ambulance is a much less risky endeavor, and has much more benefit to the child than skydiving.

I agree. But what about kung fu class?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[NickDG 23]

One way to look at it, in the USA anyway . . .

If you are driving a car and your passenger child is killed in a garden variety accident it's just sad.

If you are doing a tandem and your passenger child is killed in a garden variety accident, your ass, or the memory of your ass, is grass . . .

NickD BASE 194

[DougH 270]

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I agree. But what about kung fu class?

Kung fu gives exercise, mental discipline, and so forth. I would guess that given all the right conditions kung fu is very safe for young students.

Given perfect conditions skydiving can still kill you dead.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P