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ScottTX

When to say enough is enough

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In my (experienced) opinion, I do not believe Scott needs more tunnel time nor needs to take time off (in fact, taking time off may be counterproductive in his case); it is just a matter of sticking with it. I can give this assessment about Scott because I have worked with him in person, he has got it going on, but he just has not realized that yet...


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I agree with Mykel in this case. Don't get me wrong, I love the tunnel and think that it is an excellent training tool, BUT I have seen many experienced skydivers get in the tunnel and not be able fly as well as they do normally in freefall. Scott has already admitted that financially, the sport is digging deep into his pockets and we all know that tunnel time is not cheap. This is especially the case since there is the cost of travel to get to the tunnel. IMHO, the money he would spend at this point to get the tunnel time would be better spent on the jumps to try to pass. This is just my opinion after talking to him on occasion.

Scott, A little bit of confidence can go a long way. Get rid of the doubts in your abilities and convince yourself that you can do it. Sometimes it is mind over matter.

Blue Skies!!!
Kimmy

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Maybe it's possible Scott and his instructor talked about taking some time away to get physically in better shape for various reasons. Two that come to mind are:

Becoming physically aware of his body and what he is doing (co-ordinated movement). If we have little to no awareness of what we are doing with our body on the ground how can we use it in the the sky.

The confidence that may come from making a lifestyle change by eating better and having the discipline in life to make those changes may translate to more confidence in the sky. As we have all read the main issue seems to be lack of confidence.

Scott, I am sure your instructor is still talking to you and I wish you luck.

Of course we can all dissect what is going on here, but I am sure Scott and the instructors that he has worked with will make the best decisions based on their personal experience together.

DJ Marvin
AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E
http://www.theratingscenter.com

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On one of my student jumps I flipped on my back and went mostly head down. I looked up at the intructor who was trackin down toward me, but not gaining very fast. I then looked at my altimeter saw I was at 4500ft and waved off as I looked at my instructor and saw her break off her track and fly away.

I pulled the ripcord and then watched the pilot chute go between my legs right before I snapped over from the deployment.

Years later I run into my old instructor and she says "Damn Jim I never thought you would get off AFF much less stay in the sport!"

There's hope for most people who want it bad enough and will work to overcome their fear.

Relax, take a deep breath and practice each dive from gearing up to laying the gear down in the packing room.

Blue skies,

Jim

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When I met with my instructor several days after the last jump, it was at my request.

When I drove out to the dz that morning to meet with him I had arrived at the point where my finances left me no choice other than to take some time off from jumping.

The proposal I made to him was to take some time off from jumping because of this, come back in a month or so and try doing 3 or 4 jumps a day, for several days in a row to get rid of the "gremlins", once and for all. We discussed this in a very open and direct manner. The conclusion was that making jumps in this manner would not really help me right now, because of my lack of physical conditioning. I had a lack of body awareness that was hindering me

Much as I did not want to admit to it at the time, he had a very good point, which I now agree with.

Couple that with the fact I am still scared in the plane, not nervous but downright scared:o.

I do not want to take time off from skydiving (who would?) , but as long as I have no real choice at this point, lets make the best use of the down time and get in better physical and mental shape which will be better than sitting there feeling sorry for myself.


The last jump I made?, bad exit, over onto my back, recovered, and followed that up by getting into a sideways spin that kept getting worse, made about 4 revolutions until the instructor was able to get down to me and stabilize me.

In all other areas I am doing very good. The ground training, malfunctions, gear checks, etc, I am doing well.

My last 6 landings have been unassisted, I fly a good pattern, and have excellent canopy control, and thats from 3 different instructors who have jumped with me.

Right now, yes, I am disgusted and mad at myself, but I will not allow that to continue.

When I return to jumping, it will be in better physical and mental shape and I intend to "kick ass and take names";)

To eveyone at the dz, I will still be there on the weekends, hanging out:o:P, thanks for the support and encouragement, you are all the greatest!:)

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am taking some time off from jumping, going to work on getting into the best shape of my life, both physically and psychologically,



I don’t know the details of your problems that are causing you to fail your levels but I’m quite sure that you are being way too hard on yourself.

You jumped out of an airplane. You deployed a parachute. You landed without injury. It seems like you did fine.

The rest of the training is just there to fine-tune your flying skills so you become a safe and self-sufficient skydiver.

You need to learn to let go of your fears and not let the anxiety overcome you during the plane ride to altitude. Stop picturing the worst possible outcome. Visualize yourself being calm and clear headed and confident. When you are in freefall, you should treat it like you are floating in a swimming pool. Stop trying to fight it. Just sit there and float.

I wonder if your instructors are in fact the problem. Perhaps they are making you more nervous than you need to be. An instructor must have a trust with his students in order to build confidence in them.

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Now I have NO experiance of teaching people to skydive and NO experiance (other than 1 tandom) of skydiving per se but this comes from my experiance of teaching people to drive trucks (stay with me folks).

The hardest thing in a truck to do is reverse. With artics some people get and and some just "dont get it".

What ever you try to do for some reason they are just not wired up to reverse these things.

The best advice we do in a situation like this is give them to someone else who doesnt do it a different way but that change makes peoples brains register something so they then can do it.

Maybe leave the DZ you are at for 1 or 2 jumps. Go to another (with log book) and ask just not try to pass AFF level just to work on what you are getting wrong. No pressure, different instructors.

Maybe they will phrase something differently so you will just click and get it.


------
Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh.

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I wonder if your instructors are in fact the problem. Perhaps they are making you more nervous than you need to be. An instructor must have a trust with his students in order to build confidence in them.



You don't have any clue what you're talking about and you don't know Scott at all. As a matter of fact why don't you ask Scott if this is the case. I already know what the answer is.[:/]
Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

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I wonder if your instructors are in fact the problem. Perhaps they are making you more nervous than you need to be. An instructor must have a trust with his students in order to build confidence in them.



You don't have any clue what you're talking about and you don't know Scott at all. As a matter of fact why don't you ask Scott if this is the case. I already know what the answer is.[:/]



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I agree. I have seen the instructors talking to Scott and are in no way saying things that would make him more nervous. Besides, if an instructor does have a trust with his/her students, then they should not be taking them on a jump.

Blue Skies!!!
Kimmy

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I wonder if your instructors are in fact the problem. Perhaps they are making you more nervous than you need to be. An instructor must have a trust with his students in order to build confidence in them.



The instructors at my dz are the best anywhere,

The instructor I have made the most jumps with (11) is also the head of the student training program at the dz.

I sustained an injury on a jump in Sept of last year, (with a different instructor who is no longer at the dz), after that injury I had a fear, a paralyzing fear so strong that it totally consumed me, so strong that I swore I would never jump again.

This guy took me under his wing, spent large amounts of time with me, a lot of that was his own personal time, and with his patience and understanding, that paralyzing fear began to go away. I started jumping again in April.

If it were not for this man, I would probably have never made it back into the air again and when I did start jumping again I was able to make some solid progress.

The instructors here are the solution, NOT the problem. Of the instructors I have jumped with, I would jump with everyone of them again. I would jump with ANY instructor here who is willing to jump with me.

The problems I am encountering now, imho, have more to do with the fact that I am not the most gifted of skydiving students. I am not being negative or beating myself up, that is the cold hard fact. Another reason is that I am still scared to a degree in the airplane, ESP when that door opens just prior to exiting:o.

Because of the way the instructors have worked with me, the fear I still have is not a paralyzing fear and I will work thru it, and as many experienced skydivers have told me, some fear is good, it keeps you from becoming complacent, and complacency will kill you quicker than anything.

As I stated in an earlier post, the prime reason for the temporary layoff is financial, and I am using the down time to prepare myself to be in an even better position when I do start jumping again.

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I have to tell you about my plane fears. When I was going through AFF my first 6 jumps were so hard. My fear of the plane was unbelievable. To begin with I don't like to fly, even in commercial planes. At my dz we have a 182...the small plane scared the daylights out of me. My fear was that I was going to die from the plane crashing. My AFFI would try and calm me down, but I was in a different ball park as soon as I got on the plane. I took a week off and came back with a different attitude. My attitude was that if it was my time to go then it was my time to go. (Which is my same attitude with skydiving) Once I worked that out in my head my jumps got so much better. I don't have the extreme anxiety. Don't get me wrong...I still pretty much hold my breath until 1,000 ft. :)

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As I stated in an earlier post, the prime reason for the temporary layoff is financial, and I am using the down time to prepare myself to be in an even better position when I do start jumping again.



Mate to me it sounds like you have got your head screwed on just right. Everyone can give opinions and advice, and its good for you to take it on board and then make YOU OWN calculated decision on how to proceed. Youve made it clear you WILL get through this and that in itself is the biggest hurdle. Yeah so financially you have to take a break, but with that you are going to spend the time constructively preparing for your next jump.

You'll do it mate, your attitude seems spot on! ;)

Good luck bud
To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

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I think you're on to something about the instructors possibly not helping this dude to just ENJOYand RELAX. The feeling of flight in freefall is so totally amazing!
Yet...
When I was struggling with AFP (using ONE Instructors rather than the two used in AFF) it was BECAUSE of the feeling of PRESSURE TO SUCCEED fairly quickly on each of the tasks- and sometimes MULTIPLE TASKS in EACH SKYDIVE- that caused me to stress about it, and not to just SIMPLY ENJOY.

Remember instructors, THIS IS ALL NEW to students, and pressure to succeed takes away from the pleasure of the jump- and isn't that why we keep on doing this?

Maybe if more instrucotrs REALIZED THIS, more students would more quickly pick up on JOY OF FREEFALL sooner and stick with this sport after they've worked and toiled to get their "A".

Skydiving should feel like NOT WORK BUT PLAY.

:)

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Since you don't jump at this dropzone in particular, you have no clue what you are talking about.

First and foremost, it is not the instructors' primary job to make sure that students have fun on their skydive. Their job is to ensure that the student gets the education that they need so that they can enjoy ALL of their jumps in a safe manner.

I can't think of one instructor at the DZ who does not want their student to enjoy freefall. I am sorry if you have had an experience elsewhere that you think that is the norm. You are sadly mistaken in this case!
Blue Skies!!!
Kimmy

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i agree with you murphyka, reading some of these posts "the instructors dont let us have fun" - what the?? skydiving is a dangerous sport and your instructors are charged with ensuring you know enough to not kill yourself. Perhaps everyone should think about how that responsibility feels. Perhaps everyone should talk to an instructor who has had a student go in - yes it even happens to the best instructors.

When we are learning to skydive, its serious business. We can be having fun at the same time - isnt learning something new (wether you star or suck at it) meeting new people, being part of an amazing community and learning more abut yourself and others fun??

I dont think any of us learning to skydive should whine about pressure to perform and not having fun. Yes we have to perform, but if we dont, we wont progress and we wont learn to be safe in the air. Insutuctors want us to learn, stay safe AND have fun. We wouldnt want them to be easy on us so we can have fun at the expense of learning and staying safe?

mm i tend to more lurk here these days, but some of those posts made me see red! Instructors are often very passionate people wanting to teach someone to experience what they do.. (of course always exception to the rule). They are human, we can talk to them if we have any fears/concerns. However, if people have a problem with authority - which is what some of those posts sound like - your not going to get much out of skydiving. It is heavily regulated and with lots of people looking out for each other!

ps. im learning too, been in the sport for just over a year, 52 jumps and have had a 5 month break. freaking out about the next jump (argg!). but i live with a skydive instructor and have many close friends that are skydive instructors whom have such a passion for teaching us students/novices!

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I think you're on to something about the instructors possibly not helping this dude to just ENJOYand RELAX.



And why is it that you think that? What do you know about Scott and his instruction that makes you say something like that?

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And by the way, you don't really know me either,
so please refrain from flaiming ME either in public view or in a PM.
That would be thoughtful.
BLUES - LuLu.



Well, I know what I see in your profile and you've basically told instructors they're not doing their jobs without knowing at all the situation. I'm not sure what you expect. Maybe it would be "thoughtful" if you didn't do that too??

Scott's own words seem to be lost on some. He is making the decisions with input from his instructor. He has a well thought-out and informed plan. He has defined goals and a plan to achieve them. I personally know the instructor he refers to and I know the level of dedication and the desire for students' success of that instructor. I also know the other instructors that have worked with Scott and I know how they've helped.

I am certain that Scott will be successful. I wish every student was making the informed decisions he is. He'll be at the DZ learning every weekend, he always is. He'll follow his plan and he'll make it happen. His instructor will facilitate SCOTT'S success.

Scott, I'll see you at the DZ.
Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

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When I started this thread, I wanted to do two things, 1, let everyone know at the dz who may not have heard and who read these forums about my choice to temporarily ground myself for reasons I have already stated, and 2, so that maybe I could hear from others who have gone thru the challenges I am still facing in skydiving.

I will not be jumping for a while, but that does not mean I am out of skydiving. As Nathan said, I am out at the dz almost every weekend and while I am just hanging out, I also take the opportunity at every chance I have to learn from the experienced instructors and skydivers who have a wealth of good information and advice to offer.

The learning curve will never stop as far as I am concerned and I will always continue to try and learn from others.

When will I return to jumping?, my goal is to be back in the air, hopefully by October IF the financial part comes together like I hope, and how well I do on the physical fitness program I am starting.

There is going to be a party at the dz the day I earn my A license, even if I have to be the one to start it!B|

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From the perspective of a very recent participant in the AFF program, and with only 38 jumps. Last October I completed a level "C" (first instructor release) and passed but it was sloppy.

I repeated it this spring and TOTALLY blew it. I was very unstable. I back slid, potato chiped, and an AFFI re-docked. Of course I had to repeat it. I wanted to think the jump was ok at the time, but I'm glad I had to repeat the level . . . I sucked, I felt lousy about wasting time and money, and really thought about cutting my losses. But 2 weeks later I did the same jump and was alot more comfortable. I passed and the jumps were alot more comfortable from then on.

Bottom line is . . . keep at it, and try not to let too much time pass between jumps.

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It hurts me to hear students say, "I sucked."

Compared to what? The 10,000-jump gurus?

Well, obviously, of course.

It's not fair to yourself to compare your brand-new experience to other's skills. I mean, WTF?

One of the best confidence destroyers is comparing your skills with the skills of an experienced skydiver. Screw that.

Even today, it's discouraging to compare my skills with the "big boys" skills...but you know what? I am totally happy with where I'm at with my own learning curve...I'm progressing at my own pace...screw where everybody else is at with theirs.

Scott, I'm sorry finances are getting in the way for you. but can I suggest: With your determination and will, you will be fine. It's just a matter of confidence. Think positive. Look at what you have already accomplished! Forget what everybody else is doing. You have come so far! Skills are building and that's all that matters.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Scott, I'm sorry finances are getting in the way for you. but can I suggest: With your determination and will, you will be fine. It's just a matter of confidence. Think positive. Look at what you have already accomplished! Forget what everybody else is doing. You have come so far! Skills are building and that's all that matters.



When I made that first tandem jump last year, I really believed that would be it. Of course the addiction became part of me and I went into the solo program.

IF I had known then that I would have the difficulties I am having right now, I might have done something different, what I do not know

Who would have thought, or could have thought that it would be like this?:S.

I will be back in the air jumping again!:)

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Hey Scott Pops is right, think positive, save up your monies.. the sky will always be there..

I do understand some of how you feel, i had to stop jumping for a bit due to my health, very frustrating i was just getting used to new gear and trying to get my B license.. im sure when i get back to jumping ill need some time to settle in, and i will be far behind my peers that i did ground school with.. but ive decided not to stress about it. Ill always be involved in the skydiving community wether i jump or not and no matter what skill level i am at.. and same goes for all. If people dont like that, then they can go jump *guffaws*. Do what makes you happy.. lifes too short for anything else.

Good luck and dont forget to let us all know how you go!

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If you want to keep skydiving, go for it.

From the posts I read, you need money, you need exercise, and you're at the DZ a lot.

Do you know how to pack yet?



I would be intrested in learning, as was pointed out to me by others, it at least takes care of an A requirement, however I dont want to take the packing class just for the sake of taking care of an A requirement right now.

If I could take the class and then use that to earn money for jumps by packing, I would be intrested, most definetly.

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