Crash Landing - Very Lucky

[pccoder 0]

I had a crash landing today, jump 120. I did a 90 degree riser turn and got completey fixated on the wind blade in the middle of the field. By the time I realized I was too tow, it was too late and I bounced on my back/butt and flew through the air on my back stratling the wind blade and landed again and layed there. It seemed almost instantly everyone was on the field telling me not to move, etc. The ambulance arrived shortly afterwards and took me to the hospital.

Believe it or not, all I have is a really sore and painful mid-back. I was shocked and suprised because while I was flying through the air after bouncing I was certain that I had completely hurt myself seriously. Many x-rays later showed that nothing was broken. However, the two doses of morphine at the hospital and the Loritabs I am taking right now are helping make it bearable.

This only happened 7 hours ago, so I haven't truely had any time to really think about lessons learned. But one thing I am sure of is that I was completely lucky. It could have been so much worse. And, everytime I try to replay it in my mind and think about how quickly I realized the ground was coming up on me and then a sudden smack and bounce...it's almost nauseating.

This is not the first time I have had issues with hiting the ground, only this is the first time I have done it with any decent amount of speed. About 50 jumps ago I flared a little late and bruised my cocyx, but was able to keep on jumping that day. Something I most definately need to learn from this is how critical it is to not ever loose focus of what I am doing and where I am in the sky. Also, I need to consider the very true reality of my not being ready to start such aggresive landing approaches like I have been for the past 20 jumps or so.

PcCoder.net

[AggieDave 6]

Firstly, I'm really happy you're ok.

Now, you need to think about what you've learned from this.

May I suggest the following:

Back off the agressiveness.
Get canopy coaching.
Learn straight in approaches fully.
Learn how to safely bail on a missed approach.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pccoder 0]

First thank you for your sentiment and your advice. Today was a real wakeup call for how complacent I have become in regards to landing. The DZ owner told me when I called her a while ago that people on the ground could literally see me bounce; and although I knew that I bounced, the fact that I landed about 50 yards away from the viewing area and it was still obvious that I bounced..well, it could have been so much worse.

PcCoder.net

[321seeya 0]

Good accuracy.. ...and I am glad you made it through OK. I had the same advise, Dave beat me to it.

BASE 3:16 - Even if you are about to land on a cop - DONT FORGET TO FLARE!
Free the soul -- DJ

[EBSB52 0]

If I can constructively criticize..... Dude, at jump 120 you're doing stuff that shouldn't be done before a minimum of 500, if at all. It almost sounds as if you're bragging. I'm all for kevorkian logic; if you want to kill yourself you have the right, but don't harm anyone else.

I have over 300 jumps and over 3 years in the sport and I won't hook yet, if at all. I don't consider myself a safety freak either, but you're just asking to be good reading with type that wasn't made by you if you think you're pro as a 100-jump wonder.

What if your outs in the future include cutting in front of someone else? Learn more funamentals first. Or, if you want to live a lot riskier w/o endangering others, then go basejump. I haven't done it yet but wanna.

Glad you're ok, but chill and enjoy the sport and don't try to show-off so much.

[badenhop 0]

Um, why is this here?
An incident report doesn't end with happily ever after.
Hopefully this low experienced jumper will learn,
and avoid his proper place here.

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[EBSB52 0]

Well, we're supposed to learn what to do as well as what not to do, so maybe the purpose of this is thread is to teach all the low-timers like me and others not to hook turn. There is so much to learn about this sport that progressing at 100 jumps is foolish. I think it's even foolish for someone @300 jumps like me to venture into it. Some would say it's foolish to do at all.

[mjosparky 3]

Damn, I am glad you came out of this with just a sore back. I think you might have learned just how unforgiving skydiving can be. In a heart beat it can put your lights out.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pccoder 0]

You're right. It was stupid.

Badenhop, sorry I posted in the wrong area.

I am really hurting today and so sorry I made such a foolish mistake.

PcCoder.net

[mnealtx 0]

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Um, why is this here?
An incident report doesn't end with happily ever after.
Hopefully this low experienced jumper will learn,
and avoid his proper place here.

Care to read the forum guidelines again?
From billvon:

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First off, this forum is for discussion of major incidents, ones that caused (or could have caused) serious injury or death.

Seeing as how HH and the forum mods haven't moved the post, I would presume to think it's fine where it's at...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[wmw999 2,136]

This is the perfect place in some ways.

Here we have someone who easily could have been an incident, but through luck probably wasn't. So he can tell us what he was thinking, what he saw, and what caused him to make the decisions (or lack thereof) that he did.

And maybe, just maybe, some instructors will be able to figure out a way to modify the canopy instruction to make this sort of accident less likely in the future.

That would be a good thing. We can't ask the people who didn't survive.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[badenhop 0]

Hello,
Hurting sucks!
Please be careful.
Avery

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[pccoder 0]

Thanks, I thought so. From my recollection you don't have to die to post in the Incidents forum. And there is no doubt in my mind that had I landed differently it could have easily been way worse. I was just discussing this with my girlfriend and think maybe the reserve saved me. Sound strange, but the fact that I landed right on my back I hit the reserve against the ground first, so the padding from that extra canopy on my back could have been the difference between the extreme soreness I have now and a broken back.

PcCoder.net

[piisfish 135]

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Sound strange, but the fact that I landed right on my back I hit the reserve against the ground first, so the padding from that extra canopy on my back could have been the difference between the extreme soreness I have now and a broken back.

the reserve might also as well have broken your back. Already happened. Several times.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[EBSB52 0]

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You're right. It was stupid.

Badenhop, sorry I posted in the wrong area.

I am really hurting today and so sorry I made such a foolish mistake.

1. I don't think this is the wrong area either. It is for incidents, not just fatalities.

2. The only issue here is attitude and you have corrected that, so this is a success. If someone posted this and replied with, "F^#^ You, I'll hook where and when I want." Well, mission not accomplished. But you realized the error and hopefully won't be tempted. I keep thinking of that pretty girl at Peris that had 1100 jumps, was on a team, smart as a whip as she was a lawyer at 27 YO, and she tried a 270 degree hook. Died a couple days later. She had never hooked before, but was trying to phase into it with a 270.

Then the instructor at Buckeye, Arizona that simply did a straight-in front riser dive and dropped a toggle. I don't wanna be a pussy, but just take your time - me too :). I think hook turns can be done safely, but think about 500 - 1,000 jumps or more. Get a coach too.

Be safe bro..... :)

[wmw999 2,136]

A couple of questions
So basically you landed with the increased speed of a turn, but the turn had completed? Or were you still turning (that's not clear from your account). How high were you when you did the final 90 degree turn? Was that your usual altitude? If not, why not?

And when you say "fixated on the wind blade" what was going through your mind? Were you thinking about altitude, wind speed? Do you think that the presence of other jumpers close around would have changed that (or maybe there were other jumpers all around).

Do you have any idea what caused you to fixate on the wind blade? Or a mantra that might have kept you from doing so?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pccoder 0]

Quote

A couple of questions
So basically you landed with the increased speed of a turn, but the turn had completed? Or were you still turning (that's not clear from your account). How high were you when you did the final 90 degree turn? Was that your usual altitude? If not, why not?

And when you say "fixated on the wind blade" what was going through your mind? Were you thinking about altitude, wind speed? Do you think that the presence of other jumpers close around would have changed that (or maybe there were other jumpers all around).

Do you have any idea what caused you to fixate on the wind blade? Or a mantra that might have kept you from doing so?

Wendy W.

Wendy,

The details are not crystal clear to me but what I believe happened was that I initiated my riser turn lower than I should have. A the time I did not think this was the case; however someone from the DZ emailed me this morning and told me that I turned low.

Additionally, I was looking at the wind blade because I was concerned with running into it at the bottom of my turn when I would have planed out in a straight glide. I was fairly confident that my turn had completed and I was starting to plane out in a straight glide path, but obviously this was not the case and I did hit the ground with a great deal of both vertical and horizontal speed. However; I believe there was more horizontal than vertical, based on the fact that I am still here to talk about it.

I was down before anyone else in the main landing area, so I was not really all that concerned with other jumpers, other than that I had checked briefly to verify no other jumper was initiating any landing directly in the path that I was.

I think my concern with being so dead on accurate with landing next to the wind blade had a good deal to do with why I did not focus on my altitude or the low turn. And I am so disguisted with myself for that. I know better than that, at least I thought I did before this happened.

This whole incident has really made me think deeply about my involvement in skydiving and how critical it is that I take it easy and not push it like I did. I was cocky, plain and simple. "It couldn't happen to me" is the additude that damn near got me killed this weekend. I feel like I really let down the people who trained me and who jump with me everytime I go out there. And above everything else I hope that they forgive me for being so stupid.

PcCoder.net

[tfelber 0]

I'm going to say this with the expectation of getting flamed, but I REALLY don't intend to piss anyone off and my observations may be completely incorrect.

I just got back from GA and I was in FL a couple of months ago. Other than that and the WFFC I mostly jump out west. I talked to several people out east and have heard of many others from DZ.COM and friends who are downsizing VERY, VERY rapidly. I'm talking 100-200 jumps under Stiletto 150's, 135's, VX104's, etc. loading them pretty heavy. Some of these guys believe they are excellent pilots and some of them probably are, but with a couple hundred jumps how would you know?

In contrast to this I don't seem to see this as much in the western part of the US. There are a few but it just doesn't seem to be as prevelant here.

First thing this morning I see this accident and it generates a great deal of concern. These types of accidents are totally avoidable but people keep dying from them. I even found myself this weekend telling a guy with 100 jumps weighing about 170lbs that he could jump my 135 Nitro if he wanted. And I believe if he jumped it a couple of times he'd be OK. But when these people that WE are advising, that are our friends, get a little braver the edge becomes invisible. This edge isn't mild. You usually don't step over it and go "ooo that was close!" It sneaks up and slams you and often your only hope is that you live.

I met some great guys and gals this weekend and I really don't want to see them get hurt because they think they're fine and nobody is willing to tell them to slow down.

I'm rambling a bit because I'm not sure what I really mean to say. My intentions are more to generate thoughts than anything else... The earth is there, you're going to hit it. It's your choice how hard!!!

[Fast 0]

Quote

In contrast to this I don't seem to see this as much in the western part of the US. There are a few but it just doesn't seem to be as prevelant here.

Out West

I don't know if I can agree with that. I think that people are downsizing fast across the whole country. It seems like swooping is catching on more and more as a competition event and people think its cool. Its creating more exposure and more and more new people want to do it. I think thats why so many people had been pushing for WL bsrs and things. Though I don't think that this injury has much to do with WL. The jumper in question is a ~1.06 WL on a Saber2 170 which by "todays standards" people say isn't that outragous.


I do want to comment on:

Posted by: EBSB52

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Dude, at jump 120 you're doing stuff that shouldn't be done before a minimum of 500, if at all.

...

if you think you're pro as a 100-jump wonder.

-and-

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Some would say it's foolish to do at all.

That to me doesn't help the cause. All your doing is saying stuff that most people wont listen to at all. Swooping shouldn't be done "If at all"? I there are lots of people who disagree with you and it just seems like your a bit over the top. I think that the best advice was posted in the very second post of this thread.

Posted by: Aggiedave

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Back off the agressiveness.
Get canopy coaching.
Learn straight in approaches fully.
Learn how to safely bail on a missed approach.

I guess you are right though, some people think swooping is stupid but that doesn't make it any less fun for all the people who do it. Some people think RW/FF/CRW is stupid and/or foolish, that doesn't mean people won't or shouldn't do it.

If you don't die today trying to do things your not ready for then you have lots of time tommorow to build your skills and have fun.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[hottamaly 1]

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I'm going to say this with the expectation of getting flamed, but I REALLY don't intend to piss anyone off and my observations may be completely incorrect.

a couple hundred jumps how would you know?

.

. I even found myself this weekend telling a guy with 100 jumps weighing about 170lbs that he could jump my 135 Nitro if he wanted. And I believe if he jumped it a couple of times he'd be OK.


I'm not trying to flame here, buy you sound like you are doing (suggesting) just what you are saying is wrong. A person with just 100 jumps and you are saying he'd be fine loading up a canopy past 1:1.
There is where some of these problems start, with a "buddy" suggesting something someone isn't ready to do (or doesn't know if he's ready or not).
It's with buddys, that can suggest the safer route, that will help.
IMHO

Skydiving gave me a reason to live
I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live

• Quote

[tfelber 0]

That is one of the points I was trying to make, although I definitely was not clear or direct.

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

Hi there. Sorry you're hurting and hope you feel well soon! I have a couple of questions...

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The details are not crystal clear to me but what I believe happened was that I initiated my riser turn lower than I should have.

Do you look at your alti before making your turn? Do you have an accurate alti (digital)?

Did you start your progression with double fronts or 45 degree turn, or did you go straight to 90 degree turns?

Did you initiate a stab with your toggles at all, or did you smack in without a flare?

Do you think this outcome might have been different if you'd gotten more used to the sight picture and speed of a high performance turn starting with double fronts or a smaller turn? How about the altimeter, if you were indeed not referencing one do you feel you would have smacked in either way due to target fixation, or that the major problem here was a low turn?

Take care and heal fast! You're lucky this isn't worse. Get some coaching before proceeding with hp landings.

-A

[craig_b 0]

It is good to know you are okay and lived through it. That's the good part. On my first visit ever to a DZ I witnessed a low hook turn and he died a day later. A few months after that a girl we knew did a low hook turn. She lived a few days more. I have a mere 34 jumps and would never think of attempting anything like that but your point of complacency is a point well learned. I have become complacent with line twist and almost went in myself 2 weeks ago.

Being the newbie in here I have read the entire thread because I know the experience of all those participating. I listen and I pray that I learn. I hope that you do the same. We don't need to see your name in a fatal incident report.

Heal well.

_________________________________________
once you've experienced flight, you forever walk the ground with your head pointed skyward. There you've been and there you long to return.

[dnewcomer 0]

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I had a crash landing today, jump 120....etc.

$0.02 from a low-time jumper:

By the time you reach 500' while under canopy, you should be thinking, "The moment of truth (a planned, safe landing) is about to arrive.....in 15 to 30 seconds, depending upon your canopy's flight characteristics and wingloading." All your attention should be focused on preparing to land softly in an acceptable, safe space without getting in the way of other jumpers. Keep head on a swivel at all times. You shouldn't be thinking about much other than your landing technique at this point until you're on the ground and your canopy collapses behind you.

Other than inappropriate wingloading for skill level, momentary inattention and poor decision-making in the critical last 20 - 30 seconds of the canopy ride contribute more to bad landings and accidents than poor technique. Watch people and you'll agree with this assertion. JMO.

Let's all try to keep safe out there.

Dave
WEB SITE: www.newconthenet.com

[firstime 0]

Great post Wendy,
I did the same thing on my 25th jump (object fixation). I set my approach and was blown a little
to one side and now headed towards the wind sock.
I could hear the voices "NO LOW TURNS" ever. So I re-evaluated my situation and flared just before and
it gave me enough lift to go over it, then had to plf.
A braked (flat) turn would have prevented this but it's
not discussed in AFF, which I understand because so much is being thrown @ a student. Anyway getting back to your post... should an AFF student be taught
flat turns??? or should we learn it later?? HMMMM