Summary of 2013 US sport skydiving fatalities

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

chuckakers

******
...In some ideal world we'd have a handle setup that would give us the choice between "I want a reserve now!" and "I know I have time, just chop me and I'll pull the reserve myself (unless I do happen to get really low because I can't get the handle.)"

We've got one. Not "in some ideal world," but here and now. It's the snap shackle on the RSL. If you have enough time to decide that you want a delay before your reserve opens, you have enough time to reach up and grab it.

It's something that needs to be practiced, and I'll bet most jumpers don't practice it anywhere near enough (how often do we practice pulling the cutaway and reserve handles?).

But it's a valid option.

It is not wise to waste time screwing with the RSL shackle in the middle if a malfunction.

Are there scenarios in which a jumper would have time to release the RSL safely? Of course there are. However the vast majority of main mals occur at the bottom of the jump when performing EP's quickly is critical.

A jumper can think they are capable of all kinds of things while on the ground solving the sports' woes in their head, but adding a step to the EP's that requires fiddling with a little shackle (often while wearing a fullface helmet that restricts vision below the jumper's chin) is not a good idea.

Possibly even more dangerous is the decision and execution time required in the added step. The jumper must first decide whether or not to release the RSL. Under the stress of a mal that can take several seconds and the jumper may need those seconds depending on altitude. In fact, that added time required to make the decision and then execute the process could put the jumper at an altitude where they NEED the RSL that they just disconnected.

I'm sure some on here will reply with a million reasons why putting the extra step in EP's is ok or even superior to not adding it. Don't bother. If you want to do it, do it. Just understand that it could cost you.

Another reason to keep the EP's simple and fast is the possibility of problems after EP's. The altitude wasted screwing with the RSL could leave a jumper over an unsafe area without sufficient time to fly out of trouble or avoid obstacles. The adage used by pilots is applicable here - "altitude above you is useless".

Likewise, if there are problems with the reserve deployment altitude is your best friend.

I agree with all of this.

I certainly don't plan to mess with the RSL shackle for the vast majority of mals.

In fact, the only one I can think of is a higher altitude canopy collision.

I will repeat: If you have time to decide that you don't want your reserve out right away, you have time to pull the RSL shackle.
I will add that there are very few situations where there would be enough time or altitude to both make that decision and make the effort to pull the shackle.

I don't plan on incorporating that into my "normal" EPs. If the canopy isn't flyable, it's gone and my RSL will probably deploy the main before I pull the reserve handle (note that I plan on pulling the reserve handle no matter what, following standard practices).

As has been pointed out, the number of situations where an RSL made a cutaway situation worse can probably be counted on one hand (over many years). And there were 4 deaths last year that quite possibly wouldn't have happened, had the jumpers been equipped with an RSL.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Boogers 0]

wolfriverjoe

I certainly don't plan to mess with the RSL shackle for the vast majority of mals.

In fact, the only one I can think of is a higher altitude canopy collision.

I will repeat: If you have time to decide that you don't want your reserve out right away, you have time to pull the RSL shackle...

Correct. Because if the RSL was perfect for every emergency scenario, then there wouldn't be the need to even have the shackle in the first place, and located where we can reach it. They could just design rigs with the RSL permanently affixed in an out of the way location where it wasn't exposed. But the very fact that we do have an accessible and disconnectable RSL, is recognition of the fact by gear manufacturers that sometimes you might NOT want to use it. And thuse we have have the design that we do, and the option to choose whether or not to leave it engaged.

[chuckakers 370]

Boogers

***
I certainly don't plan to mess with the RSL shackle for the vast majority of mals.

In fact, the only one I can think of is a higher altitude canopy collision.

I will repeat: If you have time to decide that you don't want your reserve out right away, you have time to pull the RSL shackle...

Correct. Because if the RSL was perfect for every emergency scenario, then there wouldn't be the need to even have the shackle in the first place, and located where we can reach it. They could just design rigs with the RSL permanently affixed in an out of the way location where it wasn't exposed. But the very fact that we do have an accessible and disconnectable RSL, is recognition of the fact by gear manufacturers that sometimes you might NOT want to use it. And thuse we have have the design that we do, and the option to choose whether or not to leave it engaged.

Incorrect. The reason the RSL is detachable is so a post-landing cutaway can be performed if necessary without deploying the reserve, or for when an RSL-equipped rig is used for disciplines like camera work or CReW when an RSL is not recommended.

Where do you people get this stuff????

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[mjosparky 3]

chuckakers

******
I certainly don't plan to mess with the RSL shackle for the vast majority of mals.

In fact, the only one I can think of is a higher altitude canopy collision.

I will repeat: If you have time to decide that you don't want your reserve out right away, you have time to pull the RSL shackle...

Correct. Because if the RSL was perfect for every emergency scenario, then there wouldn't be the need to even have the shackle in the first place, and located where we can reach it. They could just design rigs with the RSL permanently affixed in an out of the way location where it wasn't exposed. But the very fact that we do have an accessible and disconnectable RSL, is recognition of the fact by gear manufacturers that sometimes you might NOT want to use it. And thuse we have have the design that we do, and the option to choose whether or not to leave it engaged.

Incorrect. The reason the RSL is detachable is so a post-landing cutaway can be performed if necessary without deploying the reserve, or for when an RSL-equipped rig is used for disciplines like camera work or CReW when an RSL is not recommended.

Where do you people get this stuff????

It sure would be tough to pack a reserve if you couldn’t disconnect the main from the harness.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[chuckakers 370]

mjosparky

*********
I certainly don't plan to mess with the RSL shackle for the vast majority of mals.

In fact, the only one I can think of is a higher altitude canopy collision.

I will repeat: If you have time to decide that you don't want your reserve out right away, you have time to pull the RSL shackle...

Correct. Because if the RSL was perfect for every emergency scenario, then there wouldn't be the need to even have the shackle in the first place, and located where we can reach it. They could just design rigs with the RSL permanently affixed in an out of the way location where it wasn't exposed. But the very fact that we do have an accessible and disconnectable RSL, is recognition of the fact by gear manufacturers that sometimes you might NOT want to use it. And thuse we have have the design that we do, and the option to choose whether or not to leave it engaged.

Incorrect. The reason the RSL is detachable is so a post-landing cutaway can be performed if necessary without deploying the reserve, or for when an RSL-equipped rig is used for disciplines like camera work or CReW when an RSL is not recommended.

Where do you people get this stuff????

It sure would be tough to pack a reserve if you couldn’t disconnect the main from the harness.

Sparky

You can disconnect the main & RSL without using the shackle. Just pull the reserve ripcord first. Remember the Stevens Lanyard?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Boogers 0]

chuckakers

***
Correct. Because if the RSL was perfect for every emergency scenario, then there wouldn't be the need to even have the shackle in the first place, and located where we can reach it. They could just design rigs with the RSL permanently affixed in an out of the way location where it wasn't exposed. But the very fact that we do have an accessible and disconnectable RSL, is recognition of the fact by gear manufacturers that sometimes you might NOT want to use it. And thuse we have have the design that we do, and the option to choose whether or not to leave it engaged.

Incorrect. The reason the RSL is detachable is so a post-landing cutaway can be performed if necessary without deploying the reserve, or for when an RSL-equipped rig is used for disciplines like camera work or CReW when an RSL is not recommended.

Where do you people get this stuff????

Our two statements are not incompatible.

[chuckakers 370]

Boogers

******
Correct. Because if the RSL was perfect for every emergency scenario, then there wouldn't be the need to even have the shackle in the first place, and located where we can reach it. They could just design rigs with the RSL permanently affixed in an out of the way location where it wasn't exposed. But the very fact that we do have an accessible and disconnectable RSL, is recognition of the fact by gear manufacturers that sometimes you might NOT want to use it. And thuse we have have the design that we do, and the option to choose whether or not to leave it engaged.

Incorrect. The reason the RSL is detachable is so a post-landing cutaway can be performed if necessary without deploying the reserve, or for when an RSL-equipped rig is used for disciplines like camera work or CReW when an RSL is not recommended.

Where do you people get this stuff????

Our two statements are not incompatible.

My bad. I thought you were agreeing with and providing further explanation for disconnecting the RSL during a mal.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[DrDom 0]

OK, I have to interject here for one second because there are some dangerous facts being tossed around.
I dont know squat about skydiving and can not give advice on such. But I do have 15 years interacting with EMS and 8 in Emergency Medicine... The data for accidents CLEARLY shows that there are a negligible ("trivial") number of people who die from seatbelts, and it usually is in the setting of entrapment with a vehicle on fire. MOST of these were deemed non-survivable because either the mechanism OR the vehicle was damaged in a way that the seatbelt was NOT the entrapping factor (more crushed metal).
Now, the logic of "being thrown clear of an accident" is tragic that it even comes up. According to the latest ATLS research (Advanced Trauma Life Support) the risk of death goes up approximately 200 fold when you are ejected from a vehicle regardless of type of accident. 200 fold. Not kidding.

OK, back to the skydiving topic... an RSL/MARD (similar so I lump them together) are safety devices. Motorcycle helmets are the same. Many people do not wear them, and a lot of people swear they are better off without (i've heard it all from "it restricts my vision", "it muddles my hearing", "glare from the lens", and all kinds of crap including the risk of it ripping one's head off if it gets stuck.). But what it comes down to is the freedom that each person has to determine their destiny. I'm a firm believer that students need RSLs, AADs, and anything to keep them from getting killed. But as adults what we need is proper information regarding safety devices. Can RSL's save a life? Yes. In most but not all circumstances. Can RSL's be dangerous? Yes, rarely, in specific instances. Much like skydiving. AAD's are the same.

I'm a man of numbers, and what I can tell is that at least at my level... my likelihood of being alive BECAUSE of something like an RSL/MARD or AAD is higher than being killed by one. But again, I look at numbers... and I'm not much separated from your average non-jumper so my opinion is only that.

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[PixieUK 0]

Divalent

Since this thread seems to have become about RSLs (because in 2013, 4 fatalities followed a low cutaway, and all 4 lacked an RSL), I'll note the following from the two years prior to 2013:

2011 - 1 died after a low cutaway, no RSL
2012 - 2 died after low cutaways, both had an RSL (one was student)

In addition,
2011 - 3 died riding a main mal to the ground with no cutaway (one was student)
2012 - 2 died riding a main mal to the ground with no cutaway
(In 2013, no fatalities resulted from riding a main mal into the ground.)

I note the "no cutaway" ones to point out that there may be cases where experienced jumpers lose altitude awareness all the way to the ground. (I say "may" because it may be the case that some of those no-cutaway ones the jumpers were incapacitated; we just don't know.)

There were probably thousands of main mals last year where a reserve was deployed in time to land safely, with and without RSLs, so what we are looking at are the tail end of the distribution down low: most respond in time, some get extremely close, some eventually act but too late, and others never realize they are too low before the planet kills them. (And in some cases, it's not the altitude they chop at that can be the problem, it's finding the reserve handle in time.)

Just a couple of questions / points to raise from a newbie who has already had a cutaway (jump 19, first jump as qualified A licence).

In those fatalities where there was a low cutaway with RSL fitted, were those low speed mals?

And in those where people rode the main mal to the ground (apart from the student), were they wearing full face helmets which might have restricted their ability to find the handles?

I ask because my mal was low speed (locked steering toggle that I couldn't see how to undo and didn't bother wasting time trying to figure out). I deployed my main at 4k as usual so would have been under canopy around 3.5k

I always do my CATTS checks immediately (canopy, airspace, toggles, target, system) so I discovered the locked toggle within seconds. I spent a couple of seconds tugging on it to try and release it then yanked it and my whole rear riser came down. There was an "oh Fcuk" moment when I realised I was in one of the student malfunction scenarios of "can I steer it? No. Can I flare it? No" at which point I went straight for both my handles. I cutaway and within a second pulled the reserve handle. Whether the RSL beat me to the reserve pull, I couldn't say for sure, but I think it's likely as the pull was much lighter than I was expecting.

It took what felt like a long time for my reserve to deploy and I remember looking up for it, thinking "where is it?" and seeing it starting to unfold. When it was out, I checked my alti again and I was at 2k. That's a lot of height to lose on a reserve deployment (I'm 140lbs and was on a Nav 260). I can see how a low cutaway under a slow malfunction (and hence a slower than usual deployment) could end up with a higher speed impact than a cutaway at a similar height under a fast malfunction. Fractions of seconds count.

The question about helmets arises because in the UK, students and A licence jumpers are not permitted to wear full-face helmets, with the main reason given as being restricted visibility in seeing handles during EPs. Plus the fact that the visor could steam up at a critical moment, thus removing all visibility. It never seems to get mentioned as a possible factor in no-pull or low-pull scenarios

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[nigel99 144]

Pixie, don't know the answers to most of your questions. But with regards to full face helmets I can't see my reserve handle when under canopy if I'm wearing my full face.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Remster 24]

nigel99

Pixie, don't know the answers to most of your questions. But with regards to full face helmets I can't see my reserve handle when under canopy if I'm wearing my full face.

I can see them just fine with mine on.

Remster

[nigel99 144]

Remster

***Pixie, don't know the answers to most of your questions. But with regards to full face helmets I can't see my reserve handle when under canopy if I'm wearing my full face.

I can see them just fine with mine on.

I can see my cutaway no problem (I'm only talking about under canopy) I've got a javelin harness and cookie Gas helmet. Only noticed a few weeks ago, when I looked for reserve handle and promptly shit myself thinking I had a floating handle...

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[PhreeZone 15]

Just an update. This list was incomplete in my opinion and missing several incidents.

Namely :

1/3/13 - Washington - Wingsuiter jumped from a helicopter wearing a dual harness rig and attempted a proximity flight of a mountain and was never found
8/17/13 - Iowa - Passenger accidentally activated reserve of a sport rig while riding in the jump plane

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ChrisD 0]

flydog

Or you.could be ChrisD trying to sound different and still argue stupid shit that defies industry standards.

Not me, but you could take the time to listen to what he has to say and not react with personal attacks and demand to know more about him as some sort of justification for your own personal shit.
The topical forums are the place to discuss these issues, you had your chance then, but you continue to defame with incorrect information and outright lies. And for what purpose ??? So that you can become part of the in crowd? So that you can boast to your buddies that you have yet driven off another "newbie" or someone that doesn't think the way you do? Ya I can be obtuse, and I'm learning, but not from you and your ilk.

It has not gone unnoticed that items one and two on this list have a great deal of controversy surrounding them, considering the amount of absolute faith we put into machines that in this case didn't work! I have often advanced that the cause was the lack of a reserve side JM. But many want to bully their opinions as fact and quote the SIM as a justification for their mad skillzz that they can recover any student cause they have no doubt about their abilities. I come along and point out that there is a better way and following the MINIMUM suggested "rules" in the SIM is not perhaps the best way with many students. I also have no doubt whatsoever that if this low time jumper student combination had bothered to get a reserve side they would all be alive today! This is of course just an opinion but it does illustrate the lengths people go to "save a buck," or advance their own egos, and to what end? So that a student doesn't have to have a second JM? The way people are thinking about this particular incident serves to illustrate the follow the herd mentality that exists in many skydivers today. If I had my way students would have to demonstrate 5 successful intentional recoveries before they get cleared for a single JM! The attitude of getting rid of the second JM is what caused that dual fatality.

Some of you might get this point, others will just continue to spout facts and the minimum requirements. It's become painfully obvious that many are not going to take the time to explain or help when help is needed. It's way to easier to put some one down that gets a little uppity than to take the time to lend a hand!

C

(The RSL issue is what I call a "hard decision," and we all need to realize that there may not be a correct answer, and especially one that covers every possible contingency. But certain trends do emerge that are true for both experienced jumpers as well as students. And the biggest one is the loss of spatial and time awareness. This continues to be argued against by the many that believe they can perform their EP's in less than a second. Dropzones throughout the world are full of bodies over the years with individuals that have locked up and or frozen because their minds were not as good as they thought they were. This is basic physiology and is not a debatable point. Only "how you think about this" is under your control.)

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[DrDom 0]

PhreeZone

Just an update. This list was incomplete in my opinion and missing several incidents.

Namely :

1/3/13 - Washington - Wingsuiter jumped from a helicopter wearing a dual harness rig and attempted a proximity flight of a mountain and was never found
8/17/13 - Iowa - Passenger accidentally activated reserve of a sport rig while riding in the jump plane

Was the second a fatality or just an "incident"?

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[Divalent 89]

PhreeZone

Just an update. This list was incomplete in my opinion and missing several incidents.

Namely :

1/3/13 - Washington - Wingsuiter jumped from a helicopter wearing a dual harness rig and attempted a proximity flight of a mountain and was never found
8/17/13 - Iowa - Passenger accidentally activated reserve of a sport rig while riding in the jump plane

The Iowa one was not included as it was (apparently) an observer on a flight intended to ferry the plane to another location for maintanence, and the person (apparently) did not intend to jump. Not that it means one can't learn from it, but my intent was to include incidents that represent actual risks to those as they engage in the sport.

The washington one is a much closer call: technically since he exited an aircraft, it was a sport skydive, and if one wants to compile a list that meets the technical definition, that is fine. But IMO, wingsuit proxy flying is a BASE discipline, with the technicality of how the jump was launched, or whether or not he had a useless reserve so that it was a legal jump, mostly beside the point.

[PhreeZone 15]

For Washington the line between BASE and Skydiving is getting really blurred and will continue to get more blurred since were are seeing people do things like Wingsuit proximity flights after leaving an aircraft and then others jumping from helicopters to swoop the terrain under their canopies and dieing that way. Both are technically not traditional skydiving but that is taking a very narrow view of it and only counting it as a fatality if it happens at a dropzone basically.

I get that the goal of the USPA is to promote skydiving and one way to do that is to minimize the number of fatalities associated with the sport but with the lines getting more blurred between BASE and skydiving in some instances the attitude of just pretending it never happened does a disservice to educating jumpers on how to avoid incidents in the future.

The Iowa incident I included since even though the jumper was not intending on jumping he had previous jumping experience, was wearing a sport rig, was in a jump plane with the doors off, was not sitting in an approved seat and was on the floor and had routed the seatbelt through the reserve ripcord so when he moved it fired the reserve. To me this is little different than an SL/IAD JM that decided to ride the plane down again after dispatching some students and causing the same/similar type of incident.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com