0
ChasingBlueSky

What can we do about Skyride?

Recommended Posts

Quote

A DDOS attack would take care of everything.



Don't fight abuse with abuse.

Or, if you don't like lofty ideas, read your ISP's Terms of Service.

Or, if you don't care about having to use a different throwaway dialup acount each week, maybe read the state and federal statutes about computer crime.

Eule
PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have to agree... no reason to fight dirty when they could be put out of business (or forced to change their tactics if they wish to remain in business) so easily. All it takes is for the greedy or misguided DZOs to just stop doing business with them.

What DZs? Well, here's an incomplete (and hopefully outdated) list I received a while back:

Air Adventures of Clewiston
Alabama Skydiving Center
Alaska Skydiving Center
Arizona Skydiving Coolidge
Atlanta Skydiving Center
Bay Area Skydiving
Boston/Hartford Skydiving Center at Danielson CT
Canton Air Sports
Carolina Sky Sports
Central Arkansas Para Center
Cleveland Parachute Center, Inc.
Colorado Skysports
Desert Skydiving Center
Eugene Skydivers
Florida Skydiving Center
Freefall Express Skydiving
Greene County Sport Parachute Center - KY
Pacific Coast Skydiving
Pacific Skydiving Center
Parachute Center at Lodi
Paradise Skydives
Skydive California City
Skydive Greensburg
Skydive Hawaii
Skydive Idaho
Skydive Lake of the Ozarks
Skydive Mesquite
Skydive N'Awlins!
Skydive San Francisco
Skydive Skyranch
Wright Brothers Skydiving

Anyone have updates? I heard a rumor that Boston/Hartford dropped them, but haven't confirmed.

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


Anyone have updates? I heard a rumor that Boston/Hartford dropped them, but haven't confirmed.

Dave



It would be nice if one of those many disgruntled Skyride boiler room emploees would "leak" a list.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is Skydive.com, shown in the advertisement on page 34 of the April 2007 issue of Skydiving Magazine, going to be Skyride's main competitor? Just wondering. Competition is good, especially when the new boy on the block is legit. :)
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Is Skydive.com, shown in the advertisement on page 34 of the April 2007 issue of Skydiving Magazine, going to be Skyride's main competitor? Just wondering. Competition is good, especially when the new boy on the block is legit. :)



Skydive.com doesn't sell jump tickets, they just help people find dropzones.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Is Skydive.com, shown in the advertisement on page 34 of the April 2007 issue of Skydiving Magazine, going to be Skyride's main competitor? Just wondering. Competition is good, especially when the new boy on the block is legit. :)



Skydive.com doesn't sell jump tickets, they just help people find dropzones.



As long as Skydive.com can get ahead of skyride on search lists, it's a step in the right direction, isn't it?
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

A DDOS attack would take care of everything.



Don't fight abuse with abuse.

Or, if you don't like lofty ideas, read your ISP's Terms of Service.

Or, if you don't care about having to use a different throwaway dialup acount each week, maybe read the state and federal statutes about computer crime.

Eule



If someone punched you in the face, would you just say "Oohhh, please don't hurt me! Help Police!"? Or would you do your best to beat the crap out of them and defend yourself? Bullies need to get stomped every once in a while... I'm just saying it sounds like Skyride needs to get stomped.

There's no way anyone is going to prosecute hundreds/thousands of skydivers for keeping a skydiving website down.:S

There's usually more than one high-speed internet provider in the same area these days.
Gravity Waits for No One.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So maybe this has been pointed out before but this is the first time I've seen it.

Check out image number_1. I saw an ad on dz.com home page for parachuting over phoenix. Strange - never heard of it so I click on it.

Get to image number_2. Starting to look strangely like a skyride site....

check the bottom of that page shown in image number_3 and there are the usual skyride suspects.

So dz.com is supporting skyride?????

I'm confused.
Scars remind us that the past is real

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It has been discussed before. They have to block each site individually, and do so when someone points out another skyride fake DZ site. It'd make things a lot easier if google wouldn't advertise for scam websites, but that's a different story. Same problem on SkydivingMovies.com... and since they give different ads by location, I can't even see them to know they need to be blocked.

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The lawyers for SkyRide monitor dz.com and this thread in particular.

The skydiving community is better served by taking the high road and not providing the bad guys with ammunition to fight their law suit through frivolous comments on dz.com.

Quotes from this thread have already been referenced in the supporting documentation by SkyRide's lawyers.
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The lawyers for SkyRide monitor dz.com and this thread in particular.

The skydiving community is better served by taking the high road and not providing the bad guys with ammunition to fight their law suit through frivolous comments on dz.com.

Quotes from this thread have already been referenced in the supporting documentation by SkyRide's lawyers.



Yeah, I'm sooo sure they're gonna sue me or anyone else on here for talking about hypothetically shutting down their websites... That's just as likely as them suing someone on here for talking about how fucked up their practices are. Their lawyers can suck a fat dick. I'm so sure they're gonna sue me for that too... For hurting their feelings. Right?

If I knew how to build a DDOS program I would do it myself. I was just hoping there might be someone lurking around here who might... And would anomalously distribute it (as a Torrent probably, which is essentially untraceable). I, and I'm sure many others, would be willing to run it 24/7. What would their big scary lawyers do then? Not much more than take some more of SkyRide's money... After which they'd probably get nowhere. Which would be a scenario I'd have absolutely no problem with. I mean, are they really gonna be able to sue each and every skydiver who is involved? And what would the charges be? I visited their website too many times?! :D Hey, I only visited each of them 20 million times, is there a law that says I can only go to each of them a certain amount and after that I get in trouble?
Gravity Waits for No One.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

If someone punched you in the face, would you just say "Oohhh, please don't hurt me! Help Police!"? Or would you do your best to beat the crap out of them and defend yourself?



So we've got two situations here:

1. Somebody punches me in the face.

2. A company puts up several fradulent Web sites.

As amazing as it might seem, I think these are different enough situations to warrant different responses.

Quote

Bullies need to get stomped every once in a while... I'm just saying it sounds like Skyride needs to get stomped.



I'm working on my taxes and it occurs to me that we could save a shitload of money on cops, prosecutors, attorneys, judges, so on... fire all of those people, and get together once a week to decide who needs to get stomped and go stomp them. Some countries already have a system like this - see here or here for how well it's working.

Quote

There's no way anyone is going to prosecute hundreds/thousands of skydivers for keeping a skydiving website down.:S



Prosecutor up for re-election? "Local Prosecutor Fights Cyber Crime Ring" looks nice in the paper and sounds good on TV. Alternatively, Skyride just calls up Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe and files a lawsuit against John Does #1 through #1000. They've already got the records from their hosting company and a few lawyer letters will get them the logs from your ISP. So, not only do you lose your connection, you get to hire an attorney and pay him five jump tickets an hour until either the case is resolved or somebody runs out of money.

Quote

There's usually more than one high-speed internet provider in the same area these days.



And once you've burned through all of the broadband options, it's easy to pack up your stuff, move, and do it again! Hooray!

Maybe you'll understand when you're older.

Eule
PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I never suggested that anyone was going to sue you.

I guess I did not make myself clear so let me try different words....

What I would like to suggest is that making frivolous comments about what you are going to do to the defendants in this lawsuit's website does not help the cause.
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

It has been discussed before. They have to block each site individually, and do so when someone points out another skyride fake DZ site. It'd make things a lot easier if google wouldn't advertise for scam websites, but that's a different story. Same problem on SkydivingMovies.com... and since they give different ads by location, I can't even see them to know they need to be blocked.

Dave



how about not use google ads?
Scars remind us that the past is real

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

If someone punched you in the face, would you just say "Oohhh, please don't hurt me! Help Police!"? Or would you do your best to beat the crap out of them and defend yourself?



So we've got two situations here:

1. Somebody punches me in the face.

2. A company puts up several fradulent Web sites.

As amazing as it might seem, I think these are different enough situations to warrant different responses.

Quote

Bullies need to get stomped every once in a while... I'm just saying it sounds like Skyride needs to get stomped.



I'm working on my taxes and it occurs to me that we could save a shitload of money on cops, prosecutors, attorneys, judges, so on... fire all of those people, and get together once a week to decide who needs to get stomped and go stomp them. Some countries already have a system like this - see here or here for how well it's working.

Quote

There's no way anyone is going to prosecute hundreds/thousands of skydivers for keeping a skydiving website down.:S



Prosecutor up for re-election? "Local Prosecutor Fights Cyber Crime Ring" looks nice in the paper and sounds good on TV. Alternatively, Skyride just calls up Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe and files a lawsuit against John Does #1 through #1000. They've already got the records from their hosting company and a few lawyer letters will get them the logs from your ISP. So, not only do you lose your connection, you get to hire an attorney and pay him five jump tickets an hour until either the case is resolved or somebody runs out of money.

Quote

There's usually more than one high-speed internet provider in the same area these days.



And once you've burned through all of the broadband options, it's easy to pack up your stuff, move, and do it again! Hooray!

Maybe you'll understand when you're older.

Eule



Although yeah, I don't have a whole lot of experience with lawsuits, actually no experience, I have a feeling it would be pretty difficult to sue people for stuff like this. I mean, if you get caught spray painting on a wall, then of course you're screwed... However, I don't think it would be the easiest thing for them to nail thousands of people for going to a website a bunch of times. Could be wrong, if you have more experience with this particular sub-section of the law, then let me know.

And yes, I think I can make a pretty strong correlation between Skyride's practices and someone hitting you.

1. Both "hurt". One hurts your face and the other hurts the image of our industry.

2. Both are wrong. Maybe not necessarily by legal definition, but definitely by most people's moral standards.

3. Both have the potential to be effectively and efficiently dealt with by applying the proper pressure.

My argument isn't AGAINST doing it the "right" way, it's just that if nobody is doing anything, or if whatever is being done is not working, then why not think outside the box and develop a solution to the problem. Just complaining on here does nothing, except maybe entertain Skyride executives.
Gravity Waits for No One.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

how about not use google ads?



That's one solution to the problem!

You volunteering to pay the lost revenue to the owner of this site?

I prefer the "stop dealing with skyride so they go out of business" solution. Who cares how many websites they have after they stop answering their phones...

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sorry but i don't understand. If someone buys a skydive off skyride which they think is for there local DZ and turn up there. Should the DZO just say sorry you've been cheated because we don't take these certificates. Or does some DZ'S have deals with skyride. All the false advevtising skyride is doing by using other peoples pictures and making up DZ'S is that not so un legal that higher powers cannot take them down.
Travel to infinity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I'm sorry but i don't understand. If someone buys a skydive off skyride which they think is for there local DZ and turn up there.



Skyride doesn't send you to the local dz. They send you to an "affiliated" drop zone that will accept their vouchers.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Although yeah, I don't have a whole lot of experience with lawsuits, actually no experience, I have a feeling it would be pretty difficult to sue people for stuff like this.



Note that I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

In these United States, you can be sued by anyone, at any time, for anything. The suit may not go to trial or result in a judgement against you, but you have to deal with it until it comes to some resolution.

Quote

Could be wrong, if you have more experience with this particular sub-section of the law, then let me know.



Another great thing about the United States is that there's not one law - there's usually at least 51 of them. However, a good landshark could probably have some fun with 18 U.S.C. § 1030 and 18 U.S.C. § 1043 at the Federal level. If you're in California, California Penal Code Part 1 Title 13 Chapter 5 s 502 would apply - and it specifically mentions denial-of-service attacks. Skyride probably hosts their Web sites at multiple places, but if any of them are hosted in their home state of Georgia, then the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, Title 16, Chapter 9, Article 6 probably applies. Besides the California and Georgia cops, 18 U.S.C. § 1030 says that the Secret Service can also get in on the fun. There's probably enough interstate commerce to invite Flowers By Irene to the dance, as well. (But don't mention that thing about their old boss dressing up in drag. They don't like to talk about that.)

Note that I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. (Those in the legal business will find this painfully obvious, because I didn't make all the right § and ¶ and ‡ thingies for the state statutes.)

Quote

And yes, I think I can make a pretty strong correlation between Skyride's practices and someone hitting you.

1. Both "hurt". One hurts your face and the other hurts the image of our industry.



Put numbers on both of those things. Face? Medical examiner says "injuries consistent with a fist fight", doctor says "yep, that guy came into the ER and I sewed him up", hospital accountant says "we charged him $X for the visit". Easy. Image? Hmm. How exactly do you show that the image of skydiving was damaged in the amount of $123.45?

Quote

2. Both are wrong. Maybe not necessarily by legal definition, but definitely by most people's moral standards.



But in the legal world, all you have to go by is the legal definitions. Some of the definitions are based on moral standards, but that doesn't mean you can pull in whatever other moral standards you like. Mostly the moral part is between you and your rabbi.

Note that I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

Quote

3. Both have the potential to be effectively and efficiently dealt with by applying the proper pressure.



Follow that line of thought far enough and you'll end up on North Greenwood Avenue, Tulsa, Oklahoma. Or maybe 200 NW 5th Street, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

Quote

My argument isn't AGAINST doing it the "right" way, it's just that if nobody is doing anything, or if whatever is being done is not working, then why not think outside the box and develop a solution to the problem.



I think there are things being done, and they will work in due course. Besides the courts, IMHO, the best thing to do is to vote with your feet. Ask your DZO if he or she takes Skyride certificates. If the answer is yes, politely tell them that you will be finding another place to jump, and then do it. It sucks if that means you've got to drive four hours to jump instead of 30 minutes, but that's life. If you're thinking of jumping out of town or at a boogie, find out if the DZ you're going to takes Skyride - if they do, don't jump there, and politely tell them why. Whatever other faults DZOs may have, most all of them can add or are employing someone that can add. If taking Skyride certificates becomes a net loss, they'll stop taking them in a heartbeat.

Quote

Just complaining on here does nothing, except maybe entertain Skyride executives.



And their lawyers. How's that go? "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law".

Maybe you'll understand when you're older.

Eule
PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

I'm sorry but i don't understand. If someone buys a skydive off skyride which they think is for there local DZ and turn up there.



Skyride doesn't send you to the local dz. They send you to an "affiliated" drop zone that will accept their vouchers.



No, they don't. I can't count how many times tandem students showed up at Tennessee Skydiving Center in Tullahoma, TN with a skyride certificate, thinking thats who they had called. Skyride will send the student to any dropzone whether they accept skyride certificates or not, because they already have the money and they simply don't care about anything past that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Skyride will send the student to any dropzone whether they accept skyride certificates or not, because they already have the money and they simply don't care about anything past that.



Did skyride give them the address, or did the student show up because thats is who they thought they bought the ticket from?

Shit if skyride is sending jumpers to your NON skyride dz then that is awesome. If you can't get rid of skyride at least make the best of a shity situation! Get them on the phone with the credit card company to dispute the transaction, and then have them do a tandem at your place.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Skyride will send the student to any dropzone whether they accept skyride certificates or not, because they already have the money and they simply don't care about anything past that.



Did skyride give them the address, or did the student show up because thats is who they thought they bought the ticket from?

Shit if skyride is sending jumpers to your NON skyride dz then that is awesome. If you can't get rid of skyride at least make the best of a shity situation! Get them on the phone with the credit card company to dispute the transaction, and then have them do a tandem at your place.



Thats typically what they have to do. But thats an unneccssary part of the "skydiving experience". Do you really want to do that if you bought a tandem for your birthday or just to experience the "thrill of a lifetime".. guess what you got ripped off too! Nice ride eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't mistakenly think that 1800skyride, thrill planet, or whatever name they are going under are doing any favors by sending customers to non-participating dz's. The customer starts off pissed off and generally takes it out on the dz that they are at, and now does not trust anyone. In this industry, trust is vitally important and skyride has eroded that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0