What can we do about Skyride?

[Levin 0]

I can't possibly imagine how you could have read this entire thread and not gotten anything out of it.

Yah many DZ's lie but they don't need help from a thrid party in doing it.

check out this website www.skydivinghouston.com This dropzone is fictitous and does not exist. If you call the number on the site you get SkyRide. Try calling them back and asking specifically where this DZ is. Had you purchased that tandem certificate you would have been sent to Skydive Spaceland and told they were the only DZ in Houston despite Skydive Houston having been operating in Houston longer than anyone.

SkyRide also steals images and copyrighted material from other real sites to use on their fictitous sites.

Do a search on rec.skydiving or dropzone.com for ASC looking specifically for infomation on them a few years ago before SkyRide came into the picture and you will find that ASC has been involved in questionable business practices for sometime. In fact Skydiving Magazine ran an article on them and their questionable websites a few years ago. This is not a new problem. It's an old problem that has elevated to a much higher level.

[piisfish 135]

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SkyRide also steals images and copyrighted material from other real sites to use on their fictitous sites.

what can technically be done against it ?? I happen to know a couple of europeans on several pics and could forward them the info.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Levin 0]

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In fact Skydiving Magazine ran an article on them and their questionable websites a few years ago

The article appeared Issue #243: October 2001: 09/21/2001 of Skydiving Magazine. The article is titled "Georgia's DZ's Promotional Efforts Attract Criticism". Back issues can be ordered at www.skydivingmagazine.com

[sid 1]

they also advertise $165 tandems, as a previous poster stated, yet - you try and buy one for that price! In their first year of operation we started accepting their vouchers at a dz I worked at, luckily we didn't take many. However, they were paying us $175 for each one we accepted! Wait, all we would have to do is buy 100 vouchers from them at $165, redeem them for $175 and we've made a grand without doing the tandems, DOH!
So I got somebody to call them, and sure enough a tandem was $165, but with the gear rental and first jump course it was ACTUALLY more like $245. This is called bait and switch and is illegal in every state as far as I know.
As Tim alluded, the basic business plan is sound, there are other companies out there that resell certificates and do it very well, what they don't do is steal from fellow skydivers (whatever way you slice it Tim, what they did with your website was just fucking theft). What they don't do is advertise one price then load it with extras without which you can't possibly do the tandem.
Stop looking at what they founded their business model on, and look at what they are actually doing. Stealing peoples websites, stealing copyrighted images, lying to the public, bait and switch advertising and I'll just bet their feet stink and they don't love Jeebus!

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[dropzonefool 0]

Thank you very much!!!!!!! I just finished visiting the link. I saw Olav's photo, and I think the entire sight was bullshit. There is already a skydive houston, I do not know of any DZ that calls themselvs skydiv"ING" houston. I'm starting to see what all you guys are posting about. I kinda pissed about it. I have friends at Skydive Houston, I however am not surprized by Spaceland buying in to it, I have known for some time.
Are there anymore links about skyride?
Is there anyone out there who has compiled a list of all the DZ's which do bussiness with them.

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Are there anymore links about skyride

here and here
and here
Thats just a start.

[Levin 0]

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I however am not surprized by Spaceland buying in to it,

i'm not suprised either. but it goes back to what i said earlier about looking at it from the DZO's perspective. There are two DZ's in Houston. One takes the certifcates and one doesn't. That leaves alot of money on the table and the DZO's with a decision, would they rather be right or rich. Since Skydive Houston doesn't take them that leaves the other DZ with the opportunity to take advantage of 100% of the short term benefits of accepting the certifcates. Also take into consideration that SDH has $15 jumps all year and Spaceland is none to happy about that. Why wouldn't Spaceland accept the certificates (from a business owners persepctive). I'm pulling this number out of the air but say for example SkyRide generates 50 tandem customers a month. Spaceland has the opportunity to turn them all down or take them all. 50 tandems times $175 is $8750. Consider the small number of those that will make a second jump and possibly go thru the course. To ask Spaceland not to take the certificates is asking them to turn down about $120,000 a year. If it was your business would you turn that cash down? I think most would not. That's why the answer to this problem does not lye in asking the particpating dropzones not to particpate. Now one day when the ASC/SkyRide PARASITE has made enough money off the certificates to re-open Wharton then Spaceland will likely be thousands of dollars sorry that they ever partcipated.

edit: And also consider this. What if Spaceland did quit taking the certificates. That would cut SkyRide out of the 4th largest city in the country. If he gets cut out completely where do you think his next DZ is going. Currently it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. But there is an answer. We've just have to put our heads together and figure it out. Before it's too late.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

Facts:
www.skydiving.com Networksolutions-whois lookup
Registrant Contact:
CASC Inc. ([email protected])
555-555-5555 PO Box 440383 Kennesaw, GA 30160 US

As of now, this map on skydiving.com indicates DZ #108 in southern Minnesota is called Adventure Skydiving Minnesota-www.minnesotaskydiving.com
It states "This map is in United States Parachute Association Regions"
MINNESOTASKYDIVING.COM Networksolutions-whois lookup
Registrant Contact:
Cary Quattrocchi ([email protected])
5555555555 1732 Pamela Circle Marietta, GA 30060 US

The ONLY dropzone south of Skydive Hutchinson in Minnesota is Minnesota Skydivers Club, and this is confrmed on the USPA's web site.

The Rates page of minnesotaskydiving.com shows an image of a King Air. There is only one DZ in Minnesota that has a King Air. And its further North.

Several weeks ago, I sent an email to Minnesota Skydiver's Club notifying them of this redirection of their business. and the following was the reply I received

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Hi Jason, I send the owners of this website several e-mails asking them to correct it. At this point I don't think there is much that can be done to change it. Thanks! <>

My Question:
Why is everyone just rolling over and letting this happen? Are palms being greased with a little cash? This type of blatant misdirection of business, and fiction (see below) shouldn't be permitted.

Fiction:
But at least our Georgian friends have given us a little something to laugh at.
Skydivers cannot breath in clouds and rain

WHAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP THIS
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp If you have been defrauded.
https://tips.fbi.gov/ If you have not but wish to make a tip.

Affected DZ's... TAKE AWAY THEIR DOMAIN NAMES!
I would suggest involving lawyers in this. But these guys are misusing some premium domain names. Take them back.
According to ICANN Domain Name disputes can be lodged for the following:
- domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights; and
- no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name; and
- domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith.

In this case, the domain name is possibly similar, but they definitely have no Minnesota DZ's and the name was registered in bad faith by the ICANNs standards. (iv) by using the domain name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your web site or location or of a product or service on your web site or location

[BillyVance 34]

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OK, I just read this entire thread and maybe I missed it where it was explained why they are so bad! Many DZo's will lie and let a newbie drive to there DZ and pass right by there competitor. I was so curious I googled 1800skyride, there websight states the tandem jump is $165, I found that un-offensive, so I called them and they confirmed it was $165 and tried to talk me in to buying an additional certificate to give to a friend so I would not have to jump alone, another marketing sale. I hung up on the guy and still do not understand WHY? ... Please tell me there is some substance to them being illegal?

You didn't stay on the phone long enough to find out more of their tactics... If you ask them if they are the DZ you have in mind, which is actually someone else's, they will say "yes that's us" and give you vague directions to their own DZ, or they will say, "oh that DZ's closed, but we're open", when in reality, the DZ in question is not closed! I could go on and on and on... but I don't have the time. Do the research. This bullshit goes back 4 to 5 years.

Blue Skies
Billy

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[BillyVance 34]

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I don't like the idea of any kind of middleman. Nobody asked for a middleman and no one wants one imposed on them. But if there had to be one then I would prefer dropzone.com over the USPA. SkyRide discriminates between those that do and do not accept their certifcates. USPA discriminates between member and non-member DZ's. In fact if you look at USPA and SkyRide they have simillarities. Both impose themselves on you and the sport. Both do not acknowledge the existance of those that do not particpate in their programs. The difference is the USPA is legitimate and has the best interest of the sport at heart and uses it revinue to protect and further improve our sport. SkyRide is very shady and doesn't care about the sport. They only care about dollars. Dropzone.com on the other hand is unbiased and doesn't discrimate between anybody. If SkyRide can make money doing what they are doing then Sangiro can too. Alot more money than what he makes off of little red stars. I'm sure Sangiro realizes this and I bet he has already spent some time pondering the idea. Again I don't like the idea of a middle man at all but if there needs to be one then I think Sangiro is the most logical choice. He's a good honest person and I am sure in this case good would prevail over evil. SKYRIDENCE!

Good idea! You're right about USPA in that regard. That's why I knew some people would not like the idea of them running such a program. Even Mike Mullins had to win election to a national director slot via write-in ballots because USPA would not put him on the official ballot. Everybody knows the Mullins' DZ is not a USPA member DZ, but they are a lot of fun and do a great job.

Sangiro, how about it?
A side note: Remember that National Skydiving Association that ASC/Skyride espouses? It's not a real organization... at least not yet... but who's to say it will never be a real organization? They have been growing and growing, setting up their own infrastructure with now 4 real DZs. They already own over 200 domain names. Do you see where this is going? The unfortunate thing is, I don't think there is a law saying only USPA can serve skydiving operations. It could take an act of Congress to make sure this NSA thing does not happen.

However, we all remember what Michael Hawkes did in Nevada when he had that Las Vegas DZ that would only allow tandems and skydivers who trained there to jump. He got the state legislature to pass a law saying only he could operate a DZ in the state. So watch out!

Bottom line is, get the bad guys and parasites OUT OF THIS SPORT, PERIOD!

Billy

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[mr2mk1g 10]

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they also advertise $165 tandems, as a previous poster stated, yet - you try and buy one for that price! In their first year of operation we started accepting their vouchers at a dz I worked at, luckily we didn't take many. However, they were paying us $175 for each one we accepted! Wait, all we would have to do is buy 100 vouchers from them at $165, redeem them for $175 and we've made a grand without doing the tandems, DOH!
So I got somebody to call them, and sure enough a tandem was $165, but with the gear rental and first jump course it was ACTUALLY more like $245.

I've got it!!!

All you do is call them up and ask to buy 10 tandems at $165. Cool they say - that's $1650 base price - now all you need is gear rental and FJC. "No thanks" you reply, "I have my own gear and I already know how to do it... all I want are the tickets to altitude - Cheers".

Then just redeem the vouchers and pocket the money.

If they're going to try and fuck people they shouldn't be surprised if people try to fuck them.

What do you mean it wouldn't work?

[mgerra28 0]

How about start a website called skyider.com when people click on it it sends them to USPA with a list of Dropzones and a message not to use skyride. or use a name that will come before them in alphabetical order. Just a thought.

http://www.skydivethefarm.com
don't sweat the small stuff, in fact don't sweat at all,, you get smelly!!

ORFUN #2

[sid 1]

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How about start a website called skyider.com when people click on it it sends them to USPA with a list of Dropzones and a message not to use skyride. or use a name that will come before them in alphabetical order. Just a thought.

Lee - that was a really good idea, shame that skyrider.com was already taken. (1800skyrider.com wasn't though) - watch this space!!!!!!!

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[PhreeZone 15]

Google and the majority of other search engines use technology that moves you up the list based on how many people link to your site and how relavent it finds the searches to be on keywords. The issue is that unless you search for the DZ name exactly, you'll hit a Skyride site since they all link to each other. Its called self referal. OhioSkydiving.com has a referal somewhere in it to Cincinattiskydiving.com that refers to NewYorkSkydiving that refers to Californiaskydiving and its a big round robin. That and they pay for GoogleAds that ensures if someone searches for "Skydiving" or other keywords their ads are the first ones shown. The more sites they create the more likely they are to remain at the top. Its great marketing... if they were'nt doing bait and switch's, stealing photos, and misrepresenting themselves to the public.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[sid 1]

but - just supposing - someone were to register 1800skyrider.com - and everyone who has a concern about them links to it, and I link back, couldn't we google bomb it at least enough to make a dent in the ratings? Oops - did I say I, my bad!

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[Harksaw 0]

Idea: We could all googlebomb that site (I can't remember the exact address) that lists all the domains and practices of 1800skyride? Find out whatever people type in that gets 1800skyride as a number one hit, then everyone on dropzone.com puts a link with those key words in their sigs and home pages that sends you to the site listing their practices? That way anyone searching for skydiving will get the #1 hit as being information on the illicit practices of skyride.

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[dorbie 0]

I don't think google objects to legitimate links with real dropzone sites etc, they only get upset with fake sites and link backs & blatant google gaming. If all DZ sites including dropzone linked to the skyride protest site it would be entirely legitimate and rise to the top of the rankings almost instantly.

Make it clear on the front page that you are a protest site. Protest sites have survived trademark disputes, I know skyride steal from photographers & web artists but you might as well keep it legit and unassailable.

A protest site that has a few horror stories of people who were ripped off by them would help. So, a warning page, links to USPA and the lists of legitimate dropzones, a description of how you really arrange to go on a skydive, ... call to book and just show up with cash or CC, and a section to post the horror stories of people ripped off by skyride and their no refund "policy".

Let us know when the site is up so I can add a link to my site.

P.S. I can't emphasize enough, DO NOT take anything from their site, not even the telephone number art. Make your own, "borrowing" their art is theft and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to SLAP you. Keep it legit, you don't need to take anything from them.

[sid 1]

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P.S. I can't emphasize enough, DO NOT take anything from their site, not even the telephone number art. Make your own, "borrowing" their art is theft and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to SLAP you. Keep it legit, you don't need to take anything from them.

Do you think I went too far with what's up there now, or did I change it "just enough" (I'd really like to leave it there long enough for Tim Eason to see it)

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[sabr190 0]

If someone is going to take on the effort of making this and hosting this "protest site", let me know also, I'll add a link to our DZ homepage and my personal home page as well.

"The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa

[dorbie 0]

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Quote

P.S. I can't emphasize enough, DO NOT take anything from their site, not even the telephone number art. Make your own, "borrowing" their art is theft and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they tried to SLAP you. Keep it legit, you don't need to take anything from them.

Do you think I went too far with what's up there now, or did I change it "just enough" (I'd really like to leave it there long enough for Tim Eason to see it)

You went too far, you can't take their art add an "R" and claim it's novel. If they fight you you will lose. Photoshop your own and make it a protest. This is not about duplication, it's about warning.

IANAL, but this is the central issue, if your site is visually similar such that it might be confused with the legitimate site you might get SLAP'd. So don't do that. In addition, if you lift visual elements directly you won't have a leg to stand on that's copyright theft so don't do that.

Your goal is to inform the public that skyride is not the best way to go skydiving, and definitely NOT to pretend that you are in any way similar to skyride. A URL that said plainly "dont_skyride.com" would be better IMHO, I'd recommend changing (sorry), but even if you run with 1800skyrider do not use their art or try to copy them, even if they do that to others, their bad behavior won't protect you from the consequences of your bad behavior.

Defense against trademark infringement centers around whether joe public will be confused into thinking that you are skyride in any way. Even if he isn't confused yuo still can't steal art.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Idea: We could all googlebomb that site (I can't remember the exact address) that lists all the domains and practices of 1800skyride?

Do you mean http://FunJumper.com/skyride

The page that lists the urls and has a domain owner lookup is at
SkyRide Domains

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Find out whatever people type in that gets 1800skyride as a number one hit, then everyone on dropzone.com puts a link with those key words in their sigs and home pages that sends you to the site listing their practices? That way anyone searching for skydiving will get the #1 hit as being information on the illicit practices of skyride.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[MakeItHappen 15]

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My Question:
Why is everyone just rolling over and letting this happen? Are palms being greased with a little cash? This type of blatant misdirection of business, and fiction (see below) shouldn't be permitted.

Because everyone does it???
Bush parachutes for 80th birthday
Bush parachutes for 80th birthday

Gear Issues factor in death of British jumper
Skydiver's parachute 'incorrectly packed'

Gulfport skydiver killed in stunt landing
Gulfport skydiver killed in stunt landing

FMI:
ImagePiracy
Model Release

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WHAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP THIS
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp If you have been defrauded.
https://tips.fbi.gov/ If you have not but wish to make a tip.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[sundevil777 93]

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If you ask them if they are the DZ you have in mind, which is actually someone else's, they will say "yes that's us" and give you vague directions to their own DZ, or they will say, "oh that DZ's closed, but we're open", when in reality, the DZ in question is not closed! I could go on and on and on...

I asked them about Xenia and Aerohio specifically, all they said was that they were not affiliated.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Levin 0]

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what can technically be done against it ??

at the moment i'm not totally sure but I am sure there are lots of things.

diablopilot made some good comments and gave some useful information earlier in this thread. here are a couple of quotes from two of his prior post in this thread.

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If people see the expence of defending their rights as too high, maybe a network of people can be put together to help. Any sympathetic souls in or near GA who can facilitate the bringing of Small Claims Suits? I guarentee that being hit with 10 or 15 succesive suits will be more damaging to this man's livelyhood than "google clicks" or other sabatouge efforts I've heard about.

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In the past I have won a $4700 judgement for wrongfuly removed/destroyed property in Small claims court. Total filing costs were $58.

I have also recieved a "cease and desist" court order against someone who was using copywrited material of mine without permision. Guess what? When presented with it they stoped using said material. Total fees involves, $17.

Crying that it costs too much to defend what you claim to be yours is a bullshit cop out. It can be done if you're determined.

BlueEyedMonster listed some useful links. They are an excellent place to start while we try and decide course of actions are best to take. I recommend everyone visit these links especially the FBI link and fill out the complaint tip questionair.

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WHAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP THIS
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp If you have been defrauded.
https://tips.fbi.gov/ If you have not but wish to make a tip.

BlueEyedMonster also gave this useful tip...

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Affected DZ's... TAKE AWAY THEIR DOMAIN NAMES!
I would suggest involving lawyers in this. But these guys are misusing some premium domain names. Take them back.
According to ICANN http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp-policy-24oct99.htm Domain Name disputes can be lodged for the following:
- domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights; and
- no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name; and
- domain name has been registered and is being used in bad faith.

In this case, the domain name is possibly similar, but they definitely have no Minnesota DZ's and the name was registered in bad faith by the ICANNs standards. (iv) by using the domain name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your web site or location or of a product or service on your web site or location

Some other things that might can be done. Some of these have been mentioned before but I thought I would lump them together in one post since they are scattered throughout this thread.

FBI - if someone commits a crime across state lines then it falls within the jurisdiction of the FBI. Use the link provided above.

Attorney Generals Office - as mentioned several times previously in this thread.

Mutliple Law Suits - multiple law suits would cost SkyRide a fortune in legal fees. Theft of copyrighted material among other things is grounds for a lawsuit.

PayPal Account for Attorney - A PayPal account on this site or another site would be a great way to help generate Attorney fees to launch our own class action law suit against SkyRide.

Take back their domain names as said above by BlueEyedMonster

ISP - As mentioned earlier in this thread we could make complaints about wrong doings to SkyRide's Internet Service Provider

For the purposes of a lawsuit we could join forces with the other industries SkyRide is cashing in on.

Protest Site on the net to inform consumers about SkyRide as mentioned above. Such as the funjumper site. A PayPal account could be used to generate money needed for paid sponsored links.

Protest emails to Dropzones partcipating in SkyRide's program.

USPA BOD Elections - Ballots are in this months magazine. Email the candidates and see where they stand on this issue and what they plan to do about it. Vote accordingly.

A page on USPA's site devoted to informing consumers about SkyRide.

A page or sticky (permanent) article on Dropzone.com's homepage devoted to informing consumers about SkyRide.

An indepth magazine article about SkyRide for Parachutist and/or Skydiving Magazine to inform the entire skydiving population. Not everyone reads these forums.

Try and get your local media interested both publications and television. Every reporter loves a good story. If the story runs in enough places it could possibly make national news on CNN and/or FOX news.

Inform ASC's local jumpers. If they can made interested they can voice their concerns directly with the PARASITE. Removing the parasite's support structure would be highly beneficial to stopping his infection of our sport.

As a last resort use Dropzone.com to develop a similar business to SkyRide to compete with him directly. I hope it doesn't come to this but this may be one of the best ways to flush out the parasite.

An organzied protest at ASC could get national media attention and deter customers from putting their money into a parasite support structure.

If anybody else has any ideas please list them.

[Levin 0]

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Stop looking at what they founded their business model on, and look at what they are actually doing.

Not everyone has been jumping as long as this has been going on. It's important that newer jumpers especially those that jump at ASC and the oither parasite DZ's understand the full scope of what is and has been going happening now and for the past several years. The more informed people are the better they can take a stand on this issue and stop putting their money in this parasite's pocket.