ladyhawke 0 #1 November 6, 2007 ...while riding up to altitude really makes me nervous. I don't think it's a good idea for someone to invite a solo along and then change the dive plan literally in midair! How can that be successful if you haven't practiced? Do you think the nervousness will go away when I'm more confident in the randoms and exit positions? I don't want to be a party pooper!"It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #2 November 6, 2007 At 100ish jumps, I'd have been nervous about it too... actually I probably would have refused the jump and done a solo, depending on who the other jumpers are. At this point, if it was someone I'd jumped with before, I have no problem conjuring up a skydive in the plane I did an impromptu 3 way with 2 other AFF instructors a couple of months ago.... winds picked up while we were on the ride to altitude. One instructor volunteered to stay on the plane and ride down with the students, the other 3 of us had literally 2 minutes to come up with a dive and go with it... it was fun Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #3 November 6, 2007 I agree; it can easily be a waste of your expensive freefall time, if not dangerous... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #4 November 6, 2007 Ladyhawke: As a new guy too, I agree completely with you. A few weeks ago we planned a 4-way RW jump with linked exit. I was seated near the door and far from the organizer. Little did I know that on the plane he added a fifth (a diver). We lost one member on the exit. While awaiting the "lost" jumper in the formation I noted one of my previous coaches (jumper #5) approach and dock on my arm and leg. "No problem" I think to myself. The "lost" jumper comes in, and the move to the next point is keyed. I release my grips.... but the 5th jumper does not. He proceeds to make a block move 360 degree turn with me... SURPRISE!!! All in all, it was OK, but I sure was confused for a moment. I completely agree with your basic premise of not changing the plan. In fact, I have a rule for myself (at least until I get more experience): No changes once I have my rig on. No additions of more jumpers at the door mock-up, no changes of the dive flow, nada. I have found this rule helpful to me. I expect to outgrow this rule someday... but until then I will keep myself out of the jumps that we dirtdive as a 4-way that become an 8-way by the time we board the aircraft. This rule decreases my stress and increases the group's safety!The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #5 November 6, 2007 I like your rule... it's a good oneI'll do a quick dirt dive in the plane with regular people I jump with (maybe once every 2 months this happens), but I'd never do it with a newer jumper or someone I didn't know well. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #6 November 6, 2007 Quote ...while riding up to altitude really makes me nervous. As an organizer it drives me crazy... I'll have a 6-way planned, get everyone together, be in mid-dirtdive, and suddenly someone wants to join in. Then two more see the opportunity and join as well, and suddenly I've got to re-plan the dive on a 10-minute call.End of rant... to be fair, what I described is pretty rare where I jump, but it definately de-rails me when it happens. I try to make the rule that once the dirt-dive has started, I don't add people or make big changes. On a more amusing note, I had a AFF student (cat B)ask me in the plane, like 2 minutes before exit: "If I finish the dive really quick, is it ok if I just pull early so I can get more canopy time?""Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #7 November 6, 2007 Quote On a more amusing note, I had a AFF student (cat B)ask me in the plane, like 2 minutes before exit: "If I finish the dive really quick, is it ok if I just pull early so I can get more canopy time?" More canopy time? I suppose that's a positive thing in a way ... that type of question is legit from someone that new (and at least he/she asked!), but it's amazing how many people really don't think through their dive plans and the impact that last-minute changes can have on everyone in the skydive (and in other groups, sometimes, too). Like others have said, unless I'm comfortable with all of the people involved, I don't really go for last-minute changes. Plan the dive, dive the plan, and always have a "if this all goes to shit" plan, too. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #8 November 6, 2007 Quote On a more amusing note, I had a AFF student (cat B)ask me in the plane, like 2 minutes before exit: "If I finish the dive really quick, is it ok if I just pull early so I can get more canopy time?" Heh.... I can top that. A cat A student asked me at 8K on the ride to altitude 'exactly how do I pull again?' Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yamtx73 0 #9 November 6, 2007 The one that gets me is when 1 person on the dive decides to change the dive flow while you're on climb out... and DOESN'T tell anyone. The last 3 way I was on, I was rear float, another low timer was inside giving the count. On 'GO' I went.. by myself! Oh, the person who changed the dive flow has about 1000 jumps, said on the ground "I figued I'd just let you 2 go since I can dive down to you"The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #10 November 6, 2007 Quote More canopy time? I suppose that's a positive thing in a way ... that type of question is legit from someone that new (and at least he/she asked!) Yes, at least they asked... I actually thanked him for asking during the debrief and then explained that we plan our deployment altitude for a good reason, ect. What had really shocked me is it was the same guy who, after going through all the Cat B training and during gear-up asked if instead of using his legs to move forward, could he just use his arms, because he'd rather do it that way? Again, maybe a legit question for a newbie, but it caught me off-guard!"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #11 November 6, 2007 Quote Heh.... I can top that. A cat A student asked me at 8K on the ride to altitude 'exactly how do I pull again?' My first AFF student ever (who had figured out that he was my first) pointed to his cutaway handle and asked "what's this do again?". Fortunately he was joking, but he had me for about 1/2 second until I saw the grin on his face. Damn smart-ass students"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #12 November 6, 2007 I never did mind being the party pooper... When I could barely hold a stable sit i was jumping with one up jumper, during tracking I spotted another guy????? Turns out another up jumper followed us "just for observing" he asked before if he could join us and we had told him no. So he just dove out immediately after us! "My" up jumper was fairly pissed he'd been hovering near us the entire jump I was too busy with my sit to notice him before break-off. So okay I could hold a sit, another jumper and I went up in the plane for a 2way. Whaddaya know it ended up being a five or six way on the way up. Without me though I went solo! Call me a wuss, don't care! I have some more jumps in the meantime, now I get -preferably right before boarding- oh yeah I'll be jumping with you because the tandempassenger you're videoing is my . I've let that happen a few times, not anymore, not unless I have 200% trust in you. I do not mind changing the plan on short notice, provided it is doable (a 3 way wingsuit flock becomes a 4way, usually fine, or, i'm jumping solo and I hook up with someone else in the plane for a 2way, great) and I know and trust the jumper(s). Otherwise, no. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyhawke 0 #13 November 6, 2007 QuotePlan the dive, dive the plan, and always have a "if this all goes to shit" plan, too. I'm with ya 100% now and always! Better safe than sorry."It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill_K 0 #14 November 7, 2007 Quote ...have a "if this all goes to shit" plan, too. Hehehe... So was it you or PsychoBob that changed the dive plan to chase Krisanne and PsychoBob on Saturday? I totally missed that queue on the plane... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #15 November 7, 2007 Hey Mary, Several times i have bumped off a load or even changed to doing a solo because of this. If you aren't comfortable with it, don't do it. But i will tell ya, jumping with those loud mouthed rednecks, you will get this kind of thing. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydance1954 0 #16 November 21, 2007 If I've got a dive plan in place, and we're in the plane, and someone asks to join in, I have no qualms about telling them Sorry, we've got an X way planned and that's it. If they're offended, well, that's unfortunate, but really, it's beyond rude and inconsiderate to try to join in something that took 20 minutes to dirt dive when you're crammed into the aircraft and can't properly communicate what you're going to do now with an extra body. It just takes being a temporary asshole. They'll get over it. IF they bring it up on the ground later, explain why you did what you did and request that they come forward earlier in the process, not during the climb up. If they're still offended, well, perhaps they're not really interested in co-operating with the group to have a good skydive for all. Which in turn means you probably don't want them on the dive anyway. I've run into a few people over the years that have no interest in forming a dive plan, they just want to get X number of people to the door, flop out and build a round, or something. Those kinds of dives generally don't go so well, and can frequently be dangerous to everyone, not just the low timers. So if you're uncomfortable, do a solo. You don't need the added stress of "what's happening?" going on with everything else that one normally deals with on your average jump.Mike Ashley D-18460 Canadian A-666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hukturn 0 #17 November 23, 2007 Plan the dive, dive the plan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lekstrom10k 0 #18 November 23, 2007 We were at Richmond a few years ago where i was organizing. I had a group walk up to jump. we either had a now call or 20 minutes, we took the now call as the plane was taxing back. I drew up a dive on my handy dandy note pad and passed it around during climb out. It all went amazingly well and they all wanted to do it again as we repacked. We used to do 4-ways at Marine City were the first guy out the door of the plane yelled back in what the jump was . They always worked too. Decide wether you want brain strain or have fun instead. If you need all the pre jump and post jump grief get on a 4-way team that always looking for some one to blame for their personal inadequecies. I'll take having fun any day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydance1954 0 #19 November 27, 2007 There's more than one way of having fun. Each person finds what they like and gravitates to it. But that doesn't mean that those of us who like one form over another should imply that "our way" is more fun than another. All it means is it's more fun for "me". The other guy may not think so. You like a more relaxed approach. Cool. Others prefer more structure. Also cool. Some folks just like to do solos. To each their own. As long as they are jumping - it's all good.Mike Ashley D-18460 Canadian A-666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #20 November 27, 2007 Quote...I drew up a dive on my handy dandy note pad and passed it around during climb out... Quite a bit like a Mystery Dive.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydance1954 0 #21 November 27, 2007 WOW, there's a term I haven't heard in ages! I remember those - lots of fun, when they worked.Mike Ashley D-18460 Canadian A-666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #22 November 27, 2007 My "if it all goes to shit plan" starts with rebuilding the first point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #23 November 27, 2007 Most of the time I have tried to change the dive plan - in the airplane - the result has been mass ocnfusion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyhawke 0 #24 November 27, 2007 I don't have enough jumps yet to try and create something fun out of mass confusion. I have to know ahead of time what I'm suppose to do and that is that!"It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airathanas 0 #25 November 29, 2007 Quote Quote ...I drew up a dive on my handy dandy note pad and passed it around during climb out... Quite a bit like a Mystery Dive. Any dive with you is a mystery dive Andy.http://3ringnecklace.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
