Timing of Flare on Landing?

[tree102678 0]

Hello all,

I am new to this sport with only 16 jumps (have 2 jumps left to graduate student program). Just recently sidelined for about 8 months due to injury and my own poor judgement. Out of 16 jumps, I have had 2 bad landings where my flare was horrible or my PLF was horrible.

One of my problems is staring at the ground/feet while coming in for landing and the other is my timing of my flare itself has been flaring too high or flaring too late.

Anyone have any advice on this issue? My canopy skills have been really good so far, but the last 2-3 jumps, I have been fouling up somehow....by my own mistakes. It is the last 30 feet that really get me...lol. Can't seem to work out landing gear issues...lol.



*Note*...not sure if this goes into the Canopy Control forum with the swoop stuff....as it is not a swoop question.

When you think you are coming in for a rough landing, FLARE.....and then FLARE some more!

[BIGUN 1,062]

This is an appropriate thread for the question. A search will indicate a common theme for this "type of question." Most on here will recommend that you get with your Instructors as without seeing, it's difficult to determine the subtleties associated with _your_ particular landing gear issue. For instance, we don't know what type of canopy you're flying, are you tensing up and therefore bringing your arms down preventing a full stall, where are your eyes when landing, are there varying wind factors associated with your decision to flare, etc. My suggestion would be to go to the DZ (if its open this time of year) and just obserrve others on how they land and to get with your Instructors to observe your landings/PLFs for direct input.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[tree102678 0]

Exit Weight: 218lbs.

Canopy: Previously flying a 260 Navigator, Flying a 230 when I started to get injuries.

Winds: usually about 5-10mph.

Tension: I noticed that I do tense up maybe because I keep staring down at the ground when landing...thus causing me to have no depth perception. I think I am inputing full flare but either too high or too late, combined with a bad PLF = not good...:(

Instructors: I have talked to a few of them about this, but it is difficult to work out the issues with canopy skills since they have to be done in real time...not alot of ground work to be done with canopy skills, but I could be wrong.

Last Jump: tore my ACL completely off,....my opinion was due to late flare to avoid barbed wire fence and PLF with feet shoulder's width apart...but hard to work on PLF's now with one good leg..lol.

When you think you are coming in for a rough landing, FLARE.....and then FLARE some more!

[smears 0]

I don't have many jumps myself, but I went through a phase where my flare was always off. What I would do to help out is not look directly at the ground. At my dz we have a tree line off to the side, so I will glance at the trees to get a better judgement of how high I am. If you can, try to find a stationary object like that to look at. Again, I don't have much experience, but this works for me.
Good luck!

[Booster_MPS 0]

First, I would highly recommend that after your layoff from the sport you take a canopy course to help answer your questions and sharpen your skills, you won’t regret it. I took Scott Miller’s course in Deland and learned more than I could ever repeat here in the forum. Some things to think about

Feet and knees together on final. You need to have you landing gear under you and ready to go. Maintain a good upright posture in your harness with your head up and toward the horizon – this is your cue for descent, not what is below your feet. You will also have a good sense of forward speed in this position.

Fly your canopy all the way to the ground. No big inputs but sense what your canopy is doing. I take the first inch or so of brake line into slight tension (so there is no slack) just so I can feel where the flare will begin – this also gives you a mechanism for tiny inputs.

A full flare is just that. Arms at your side and fully extended. Think of this as putting the brakes on when you drive your car. You can do this hard and stop short or not enough and impact. This is what you need to figure out with your canopy.

Learn EVERY input to your canopy and what it does. Work with an instructor on this skill as it is critical. You should understand what your harness, toggles, front risers, and rear risers all do in full and slow flight.

One last thing – this is one of Scott’s drills. Practice at altitude in clear airspace 5 flares – Fast, slow, normal, eyes looking up at your canopy, closed eyes. Each time let your canopy come back to full flight after feeling the flare, acceleration, recovery and then return to normal flight.

[uscallesen 0]

I've been smashing myself into the planet for my past 4-5 jumps aswell - always because I flared too late.

I'm gonna try some flare execises at altitude to get a better feeling for it - maybe you should try the same ?

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Three peices of advice:

First) LEARN TO PLF!!! Get with an instructor, and PLF off a chair a few DOZEN times... once you and he are comfortable, go home and do it some more. Then find something a little taller, maybe a picnic table. If possible, work up to 6-8 feet. A hard landing could easily be like jumping off the roof of a single-story house... if you can PLF off your roof, you can do it on a landing.

Second) Really, really think about NOT looking down. Almost everyone has trouble in the beginning judging altitude, and some people simply don't have good depth perception. Find something else to use as a reference. I've used trees, buildings, wind blades, things like that. If you know a wind blade is about 15 feet high, and you know you're still above it, you're too high, no matter how fast the ground seems to be coming at you. Plan two or three things you can use before you jump so you don't have to make it up on the way.

Third) You may or may not already be doing this, but remember if you flare a little high, it's ok. As soon as you realize it, pause the flare (don't put your hands back up, just leave them exactly where they were... probably in 1/2 to 3/4 brakes). Hold there until just before you hit the ground (5 feet or so), then finish, all the way to full arm extension. And be ready to PLF no matter how confident you are that you can stand it up.

P.S. Ask someone to video your next several landings, then show them to the instructors and have them explain what is wrong, and even more importantly, what is right!

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[Baksteen 84]

disclaimer: I'm freshly off student status, so I am not claiming to give good advice. Listening to me instead of a knowledgable and certified instructor could very well get you killed or injured..yadda yadda. (God, I hate having to put this up with every single post )

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Instructors: I have talked to a few of them about this, but it is difficult to work out the issues with canopy skills since they have to be done in real time...

Maybe get a videot to capture (quite) a few of your landings?
I feel I learned a lot by having an instructor who specialises in canopy control debrief those landings step by step with me.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[tree102678 0]

Thank you very much for the advice! I do plan on taking a canopy course soon after my rehab of my knee surgery. I just plan on getting better and reading/watching canopy skill books and videos while I am at home being laid up..lol.

I definately will be paying more attention to how others are landing out at my home DZ...

When you think you are coming in for a rough landing, FLARE.....and then FLARE some more!

[tree102678 0]

PLF: I know for a fact that I have not been practicing them as much as I should....but I will now

Looking Down: I have tried to look at stationary things before but still find my eyes creeping back down again...such a tough habit to break.

Flaring too High: I have done this on 2 occassions and have brought my toggles back up and felt the canopy surge forward...needless to say it was a very uncomfortable feeling before I hit the ground. Won't be doing that again. Will have to remember that it is okay to ride the brakes...lol.

Thank you for the advice

When you think you are coming in for a rough landing, FLARE.....and then FLARE some more!

[chrismgtis 0]

Without looking, someone has probably already recommended not to look straight down at the ground and look ahead. Pick out an object nearby to use as a height reference, like another jumper if you can.

If you're flaring too high like I did plenty of times in the beginning, wait till you're thinking "it's time" then wait about a second longer. Just FINISH your flare (but yea do not let up on the toggles once you have pulled them down -- just stop until your ready to finish, the flare then FINISH it -- toggles all the way down and PLF!)
When I say PLF, do what you were taught, but think of it as just kind of going completely limp when you hit the ground and letting yourself just collapse. Don't fight it. That can get you hurt.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[BoilingMidnight 0]

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Flaring too High: I have done this on 2 occassions and have brought my toggles back up and felt the canopy surge forward...needless to say it was a very uncomfortable feeling before I hit the ground. Won't be doing that again.

Just curious: Did your training cover this area?

"Iþ ik qiþa izwis, ni andstandan allis þamma unseljin."

[ladydyver 0]

P.S. Ask someone to video your next several landings, then show them to the instructors and have them explain what is wrong, and even more importantly, what is right!

[tree102678 0]

My training covered ALL areas and was given to me by excellent instructors. I just took it upon myself being new to the sport to make a bad split second decision on my own and am in the process of learning from my mistakes.

Like the saying goes: "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it ...correctly"...lol

When you think you are coming in for a rough landing, FLARE.....and then FLARE some more!

[BIGUN 1,062]

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Previously flying a 260 Navigator, Flying a 230 when I started to get injuries.

Please talk with your Instructors regarding the different flare characteristics of the Navigator and the type of 230 you're now flying. There is a difference.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[tree102678 0]

Will Do

When you think you are coming in for a rough landing, FLARE.....and then FLARE some more!

[Orange1 0]

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PLF with feet shoulder's width apart...but hard to work on PLF's now with one good leg..lol.

I was taught to PLF with feet (and knees) tightly together... and I'm sure I'm not the only jumper who has PLF'd landings because at the time I only had "one good leg"...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[AFFI 0]

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Exit Weight: 218lbs.

Canopy: Previously flying a 260 Navigator, Flying a 230 when I started to get injuries.

Winds: usually about 5-10mph.

First off I wish you a speedy and good recovery, don’t rush it, allow your body to heal and rehab properly by listening to your professional health providers. Sounds like a pretty serious injury.

Secondly, learning to safely land a canopy is amongst the more critical and difficult aspects of skydiving to reach a level of proficiency at, so take your time and by listening to your professional skydiving instructors who are working directly with you.


It is nearly totally impossible to give effective counsel concerning flaring for landings without being there with you.
So you will receive advice from
well intentioned skydivers but it is the instructors working directly with you who you really need to focus on for guidance.

Expect them to put you back up on a larger canopy, that way you can have slower landings while you learn. Don't get in a hurry, you have the rest of your life to skydive, the trick is to maximize your healthiness so you can make more jumps before the dreaded day comes whey you have to leave the sport, which is inevitable.

So stay safe, EPs, learn when to stay on the ground when the winds are outside a conservative guideline and most of all - Cherish the moments you get to participate in this sport, the people are wonderful...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[kelpdiver 2]

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Flaring too High: I have done this on 2 occassions and have brought my toggles back up and felt the canopy surge forward...needless to say it was a very uncomfortable feeling before I hit the ground. Won't be doing that again.

Just curious: Did your training cover this area?

I think nearly everyone is told to hold the flare, but when you're in the situation....no time to think about it and our instincts are bad.

To the original poster - there are two good articles on the front page of DZ that talk about the flare height and other issues of landing. And Scott and Brian's courses include video analysis, though even without them having someone tape your landings will allow more people to advise you.

Personally, I have had more of a problem with late flaring where I flying into the ground, esp on the low wind days.

[rygon 0]

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PLF with feet shoulder's width apart...but hard to work on PLF's now with one good leg..lol.

I was taught to PLF with feet (and knees) tightly together... and I'm sure I'm not the only jumper who has PLF'd landings because at the time I only had "one good leg"...

so was I. Knees together and bent, pointing slightly to one side (at around 50ft) hold it there. When you land this atoumatically removes a lot of the energy into you legs (acting as shock absorbers due to the bent knees) and by having the legs to the side a bit , it allows you to roll onto the side of you body

[Ether 0]

Altitude awareness. As others have said, find an object in or near your LZ that is the right height and use that as a guideline for when to start flaring. Verify your object with your instructors. (I use the DZ's hangar as a guide, as it is about 12 feet high -- when I can no longer see over its roof, it's time!)

Get video of your landings.

Go back on radio support, and get an instructor to talk you through every step: "feet together, eyes ahead, watch, wait... flare flare flare"

Definitely learn to PLF! Practice jumping off a chair, and then off a table, onto soft mats and make sure you roll right up to your shoulder. This may take a while but it is a skill you will need your entire skydiving career.

And be wary of taking any advice from anonymous hooligans on dz.com -- run *everything* by your instructors.

Good luck!

Looking for newbie rig, all components...

[tree102678 0]

I was taught all of the information/advice that was stated above but in a moment of "brain-lock"...that all went out the window and it cost me.

Just had one really good jump (3 days before my birthday no less..lol.) that I just initiated all my landing procedures a bit too late and/or incorrectly and will just have to learn from it.

*Note*... I have been trained by some of the best instructors out there, but in the end....while in freefall and under canopy...the decisions I make at the time are mine...whether they be the right one's at the time or not. I take responsibility for myself and my mistakes in this sport.

When you think you are coming in for a rough landing, FLARE.....and then FLARE some more!

[Ether 0]

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Just had one really good jump (3 days before my birthday no less..lol.)

I understand your frustration.. see my avatar for the object that snuck up on me to give me some canopy control lessons

But it sounds like you're on the right track.. keep at it! And happy birthday!

Looking for newbie rig, all components...

[BIGUN 1,062]

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Knees together and bent, pointing slightly to one side (at around 50ft) hold it there.

WRONG I don't know where you got this. but you do not twist your feet to one side at 50 feet. Go back and talk to your Instructors and knock out 50 on the way.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Baksteen 84]

[reply(I use the DZ's hangar as a guide, as it is about 12 feet high -- when I can no longer see over its roof, it's time!)