tracking oscillations

[SPAWNmaster 0]

hey guys, I'd like some input from some of you experienced jumpers out there
it seems that I cant track with my arms directly at my side without starting some oscillations rocking me forward and backward. any tips on avoiding this? i'm really in love with tracking and trying to get as good at it as I can but can't seem to get rid of this! any advice?

[firstime 0]

have someone do a video so you can see your body position

[gemini 0]

Sounds like you may be very flat in your track and are potato chipping. Most of us experienced this when first learning to arch in freefall. We experienced it again when learning to flat track.

Along with the video as noted above, you can move your arms down from your sides (away from your hips) for stability.You can play with the distance away and down from your hips to find the right spot for your body size and shape. Think about rolling your shoulders forward and your legs slightly down (point your toes). This will help you cup air on all four sides.

This allows you to slow your vertical rate and help your horizontal speed. When I first started, I would turn 180 from the base and look between my feet at the others in my group. This got my head down and kept my feet slightly apart as well. Speed instantly would increase, but can be to steep for good flat tracking. You may want to use it to start just to get your speed up to alleviate some of the chipping.

Remember the maximum flat track can be inherently unstable so some chipping indicates you will be reaching your maximum track.

Blue skies,

Jim

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Wow thanks for the info. I will certainly get a video next time I can and get some advice from people in person.

So since it's inherently unstable, is a flat track not the best way to go about getting velocity and distance with stability?

I'm looking to get my track to the point where I'm getting maximum distance, maximum velocity and minimal fall rates. What sort of things should I be working on? Also I notice when I'm tracking that I can steer with my upper torso/head. Is this the best way or is it possible to get good control from leg work as well?

What other ways to track are there?

Sorry for all the newb questions, I'm still a beginning jumper after all!

Blues

[jakee 1,280]

I'd also recommend (if you aren't already) moving quite gradually from a more relaxed delta type position into your more maxed out position. While you're still learning it's likely that banging straight into a hard track won't work too well for you.

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So since it's inherently unstable, is a flat track not the best way to go about getting velocity and distance with stability?

In flight, performance often comes with added instability, you just need to learn to work with it. Practice is key

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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it seems that I cant track with my arms directly at my side without starting some oscillations rocking me forward and backward. any tips on avoiding this?

Tracking is a lot of fun. I'm glad you want to practice and get better at it. To get rid of the oscillations, roll your shoulders forward. To get a better track, push down with you lower legs until you knees lock. Push down with your palms until your arms are aligned with the side of your body. Bend forward slightly at the waist. All this should require some effort on your part. The more you push on the air to track, the more it pushes you across the sky. It's definitely not a passive experience.

Go up with a good tracker and try to keep up with them. Have fun.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

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While you're still learning it's likely that banging straight into a hard track won't work too well for you.

I found that out the hard way! I tried to exit the other day into a relaxed delta and found myself launching a headdown!

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Tracking is a lot of fun. I'm glad you want to practice and get better at it. To get rid of the oscillations, roll your shoulders forward. To get a better track, push down with you lower legs until you knees lock. Push down with your palms until your arms are aligned with the side of your body. Bend forward slightly at the waist. All this should require some effort on your part. The more you push on the air to track, the more it pushes you across the sky. It's definitely not a passive experience.

Go up with a good tracker and try to keep up with them. Have fun.

tracking is so much fun! thanks to everyone who has posted here for advice...i'll be sure to try and get on a tracking dive with someone next time im at the DZ.

[DougH 270]

Good for you to practice tracking. Tracking will save your life and your buddies life every jump.
Just remember not to track down jump run while you are trying to learn.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[MagicGuy 0]

Like Doug said, tracking is an important skill, as well as being a blast when you get good at it.

I would second the fact that trying to blast into the track position from your normal arch will definitely feel unstable. I do it in two parts - straighten legs and gradually bring my arms and shoulders to track position. The straightened legs will start your forward movement and the arms will just add to it once you get them in place. Don't worry about trying to get into position so fast - speed will come with practice.

Try getting a friend that's a coach (and that has a camera helmet if you can!) to come and work with you. Offer to pay his slot for him.. sometimes you'll get a nice coach that will just go up with you for free. Having someone else there will definitely make learning a lot easier, especially if there's a video that you can debrief with.

Keep working at it.. most jumpers never stop trying to make their track better. Once you get some more jumps and get more confident with tracking, multiple person tracking dives are some of the coolest jumps you'll make!

Good luck.

[JohnDeere 0]

So since it's inherently unstable, is a flat track not the best way to go about getting velocity and distance with stability?
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It is the best way. The only reason you are unswtable is cuase you are not used to that position. Think AFF, i dont know about you but i wasnt that stable. With time you will become stable. Best of luck, if you get video the post link and we can se more of what your body is doing.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[SPAWNmaster 0]

thanks. i will be sure to post the video if i get one. im a busy college student so we'll see when i get to the DZ.

i was actually pretty stable as a student and never had any oscillations or "potato chipping" during AFF which is why I was asking about this (i thought it was specific to tracking or something up until now).

another question for the experienced guys out there:

is it more effective to track with my legs close together? is there considerable difference having my legs wide open or will that just slow my fall rate more?

[gemini 0]

Your ideal tracking position will vary depending on your strength, flexibility and body shape. Generally the best trackers are long and lean, but I have seen a short round guy who can track with the best.

I personally keep my legs about 6 - 12 inches apart and point my toes slightly inward. I have several friends who keep their legs together, but point their toes outward.

There appears to be some confusion about the "unstable" feeling when tracking. My best track from altitude with a regular RW suit with loose sleeves was 2.25 miles at an average speed of 83. Usually I get a vertical speed of around 92.

On these tracks I tend to rock a bit (chipping) especially when the track is going well. I always know when I hit my max because that is when the instability starts. The only thing I can attribute it to is the amount of air that is being cupped tends to bleed off unevenly from left to right.

Other good trackers may be able to explain this better than me.

The key to better tracking is to practice tracking at the end of each jump. If I am doing a 2 way or a 4 way, at break-off I turn and burn and go as hard as I can ... as if I am doing a 100 way. Basically I get two skydives for one....1. RW jump and 2 a tracking dive.

Blue skies,

Jim

[JohnDeere 0]

Yes it is more effective with legs and arms together(close to body). The more open they are the more stabble you will be, but the more streamlined you are the more forward movement and slower fall rate you will have.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[LloydDobbler 2]

Like others have said, good on you for working on it. It's SO freakin' important.

One little thing to add -

Up above, JohnMitchell mentioned that you should try and cup your shoulders. I've found that a good way of doing this is to turn my hands the opposite way, so that my palms face the sky instead of the ground. You can try it while sitting at your desk - you'll feel your shoulders cup themselves naturally. (That position also is good for glancing at your altimeter without breaking out of your track, which is convenient).

Same body position as described above, just palms up.

YMMV, but it helped me get more stable when tracking. You'll get it with time. Good luck!

Signatures are the new black.

[gemini 0]

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...it is more effective with legs and arms together(close to body).

I partially disagree. The most effective position is that which will get a person the slowest vertical fall rate and the fastest horizontal speed. This effective position will depend on the jumpers body shape, muscle strength, height, length of arms, etc.

Yours may be tight and tucked, but mine is more open and cupped. I need to trap more air to slow down than you probably do.

Blue skies,

Jim

[JohnMitchell 14]

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So since it's inherently unstable, is a flat track not the best way to go about getting velocity and distance with stability?
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
It is the best way. The only reason you are unswtable is cuase you are not used to that position.

Any aerodynamicist will tell you that stability costs performance. That's why high performance fighter planes are going to artificial stability over natural stability. You could track with an arch. It would feel very stable, but your forward speed would be reduced and your rate of descent would go up. In fact, this is what poor/lazy trackers do all the time. I can smoke them any day of the week.

The de-arch is another unstable body position if you do it correctly, but it sure gets you back up to the formation if you push on the air hard enough.

[Butters 0]

Check out this video.

PS: I love tracking, it's practically all I do.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SPAWNmaster 0]

I wonder if there's any way to study this in the tunnel to do some real research on streamlined tracking. This would be helpful to put rest to all the debate about Atmo as well. I know they have tunnels for wing suit testing...


On another note I was wondering. I've been doing a lot of solo tracking dives lately which is how all this came about...but I noticed that I can steer with my upper torso and head (maybe using my head automatically makes the torso follow). Is this the best way to steer a track? Does anyone predominantly use their legs instead? I found it a bit harder to control using just my legs as you really have to swing your hips out and can potentially carve out too much and stall your track.

Input?

[Butters 0]

I turn my head (look where you're going) and then use my arms (and sometimes upper torso) to navigate.

PS: Next time you are tracking, do a steep dive and then flatten out ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[DougH 270]

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PS: Next time you are tracking, do a steep dive and then flatten out ...

For what purpose?

A good track flat does not start with a steep dive. Your wasting altitude and building unnecessary speed. Diving has nothing to do with it.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Butters 0]

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PS: Next time you are tracking, do a steep dive and then flatten out ...

For what purpose?

For fun ... (Sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate anything more than it is a fun thing to do.)

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[CygnusX-1 42]

You can do tracking in the tunnel. All you need is a coach who will hold you by your shoulders. I've done it several times. It also gives you instant feedback as to what body position gives you the most forward movement by the pressure on your shoulders.

Personally, I steer with my feet. Small movements from the symmetrical are all that is needed to make heading changes.

[kallend 1,679]

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You can do tracking in the tunnel. All you need is a coach who will hold you by your shoulders. I've done it several times. It also gives you instant feedback as to what body position gives you the most forward movement by the pressure on your shoulders.

.

If you are doing it WELL, the forward motion in a real track changes the direction of the airflow considerably, an effect that is NOT simulated in a vertical wind tunnel.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[packerboy 3]

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Try getting a friend that's a coach (and that has a camera helmet if you can!) to come and work with you. Offer to pay his slot for him.. sometimes you'll get a nice coach that will just go up with you for free.

I want to puke every time I hear that. If you have to pay their slot for them, they aren't your friend. If they want to make money skydiving, they should be an instructor, packer, rigger or vidiot. If they aren't good enough to do those things, they aren't good enough to charge people money to jump with them. I would rather do 50 jumps with "my friends" trying to figure something out before paying someones slot to "coach" me.

Windtunnels and world champions however, that's a different story. If I had cash to blow, it would be nice to train RW with Airspeed...


This is the coolest tracking video ever!


http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=3305&string=tracking%20totale


Sorry about the rant... I just feel that although the coach rating is a good thing to have... you should pay your skills forward and become an instructor. I've seen "coaches" sit on the ground for an entire weekend because no one would pay their slots for them. Again... sorry, this just hits a button for me.

Cheers, and check out that video... very cool.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[JohnDeere 0]

Yours may be tight and tucked, but mine is more open and cupped. I need to trap more air to slow down than you probably do.