ucadam 0 #1 April 8, 2008 Vector v4 with triathalon 160 main ,175 reserve. VECTOR HARNESS CONTAINER- DOM May 88. This is also equipted with a RSL,and is cypres ready.There is a BOC for the main pilot chute. .The pilot chute is a non collapsable. Tri 160 standard colors ,DOM NOV 94 RESERVE- Glidepath Firelight 175,DOM APR 88. My question is.. was this a Good deal? What about the reserve & container.. being 20 years old. Of course I will have to put on a Hackey Handle on BOC, & Collapsable Pilot Chute.. Along with a Cypress, Not sure 1 or a 2? Still need a JumpSuit, altimeter, helmet.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #2 April 8, 2008 My question is.. was this a Good deal? Quote Depends on what ya PAID for it! It looks clean from the pics...have a rigger check it out. Several of my rigs have square reserves older than 20 years and as long as my trusted regular rigger says it's okay...it's OKAY! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LongWayToFall 0 #4 April 8, 2008 I don't know much about gear, but if it is safe, I think you got a dope deal. Most people are not spending that little to get in the air, more jumps for you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #5 April 8, 2008 I'd figure the container to be worth about $100, reserve about $200 and the main from $300-500 depending on jump numbers, so yeah, assuming that your rigger gives everything the thumbs up I'd say you got a pretty good deal. Be aware that the container is not safe to freefly with and that the reserve will land and open at terminal best if it's not loaded over about 1.0. In other words, if you intend to freefly soon and/or you weigh over about 155 pounds, it wasn't such a good deal... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #6 April 8, 2008 Why does every one ask this question, after the made the purchase? Does it even matter, you are past that point, the new question becomes: "is this gear suitable for me?" lol!"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #7 April 8, 2008 Just don't bring it to SA to jump! Quote Reserve parachutes and harnesses used for sport parachuting shall have a maximum 20- year lifetime. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kschilk 0 #9 April 8, 2008 Quote Just don't bring it to SA to jump! Quote Reserve parachutes and harnesses used for sport parachuting shall have a maximum 20- year lifetime. Good regulation to have, when you're selling nylon. "T'was ever thus." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #10 April 8, 2008 Quote Why does every one ask this question, after the made the purchase? I was just thinking the same thing. The after the purchase question seems to be more common these days. Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #11 April 8, 2008 Quote Quote Just don't bring it to SA to jump! Quote Reserve parachutes and harnesses used for sport parachuting shall have a maximum 20- year lifetime. Good regulation to have, when you're selling nylon. Climbing and safety harnesses may not need to be retired until after 3000 hours of exposure to UV. Given five minutes under canopy and ten waiting for the plane it's going to take over 10,000 jumps to get there with a skydiving rig in which case it would probably have been retired for wear. With a few exceptions (round reserves with the acid mesh problem), gear sitting in a closet for 20 years isn't any less safe to jump than it was when new. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #12 April 9, 2008 QuoteClimbing and safety harnesses may not need to be retired until after 3000 hours of exposure to UV. Given five minutes under canopy and ten waiting for the plane it's going to take over 10,000 jumps to get there with a skydiving rig in which case it would probably have been retired for wear. With a few exceptions (round reserves with the acid mesh problem), gear sitting in a closet for 20 years isn't any less safe to jump than it was when new. The flaw with your 3000 hour argument is that parachute fabric is much thinner than harness material, and inner layers are not protected by outer layers. I pretty much agree with your 20 year statement though. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ucadam 0 #13 April 9, 2008 Reserve has had 1 ride... Seller states..that everything is in Great Condition... Check gear out... If not happy will refund full purchase price..less S/H $40.00 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #14 April 9, 2008 >Climbing and safety harnesses may not need to be retired until after >3000 hours of exposure to UV. True - but climbing harnesses generally don't have to deal with the forces you'll see on a skydiving rig during a head-down reserve deployment. Indeed, there is some brouhaha over the use of load limiting devices when ascending certain sorts of fixed lines in climbing; these are never used in skydiving. In addition, harnesses in general are a lot more rugged than canopies. >With a few exceptions (round reserves with the acid mesh problem), >gear sitting in a closet for 20 years isn't any less safe to jump than it was >when new. I would argue that: 1) Gear so old that it's "odd" (i.e. has an ROL or a belly band, or cannot be flared like a HP canopy) is less safe to use overall because few people understand the issues with that sort of gear any more. 2) Riggers will not be current on very old gear that requires unusual techniques (like the Hobbit or Swift 5 cell reserves.) 3) Some materials do indeed just break down with time. Witness the problem with brass grommets + rubber bands after a few months storage. Springs compress, plastic loses its strength and metal oxidizes. All of the above doesn't mean that Vector II can no longer be jumped safely - but it does mean you have to take exceptional care when jumping very old gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #15 April 9, 2008 I pretty much agree with your 20 year statement though. Quote I don't...I DO think it should be evaluated case by case after 20 years. Stored right and maintained well, no to reason make it a car cover just because someone thinks some arbitrary number of years will make ALL nylon go sour...it's not milk! Because of differences in materials...'some' harnesses made 20 years ago are stronger today than something made now. Interesting discussion at last years PIA concerning that. One comment I thought was interesting was when someone said: It's not like we're having a whole boatload of people blowing up 20 year old canopies....where was all this concern back when we were putting students out every day on 25 year old T-10s. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #16 April 9, 2008 Be prepared to sell it in a year when you want to start freeflying. For $500 bucks if you get a year out of it and sell it for $300, it's a fantastic deal. Hell, even if you do 300 jumps on it and throw it out, you've still saved money over renting gear for a season. ... provided it's safe. That's for rigger to decide. Picture looks amzing for a 20 year old rig. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #17 April 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteClimbing and safety harnesses may not need to be retired until after 3000 hours of exposure to UV. Given five minutes under canopy and ten waiting for the plane it's going to take over 10,000 jumps to get there with a skydiving rig in which case it would probably have been retired for wear. With a few exceptions (round reserves with the acid mesh problem), gear sitting in a closet for 20 years isn't any less safe to jump than it was when new. The flaw with your 3000 hour argument is that parachute fabric is much thinner than harness material, and inner layers are not protected by outer layers. My reserves, reserve pilot chutes, and free bags have a lot less (none detectable) sun fade than my main canopies presumably because the container and free bag provide some protection from the sun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #18 April 9, 2008 QuoteMy reserves, reserve pilot chutes, and free bags have a lot less (none detectable) sun fade than my main canopies presumably because the container and free bag provide some protection from the sun. The line should be drawn somewhere. 20 years looks reasonable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #19 April 9, 2008 Quote Quote My reserves, reserve pilot chutes, and free bags have a lot less (none detectable) sun fade than my main canopies presumably because the container and free bag provide some protection from the sun. The line should be drawn somewhere. 20 years looks reasonable. And how did you determine that it is "reasonable". Are you a rigger, chemist, engineer, etc. with research experince in this specific area? Or do you just play one on the internet. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #20 April 9, 2008 QuoteVector v4 with triathalon 160 main ,175 reserve. Tri 160 standard colors ,DOM NOV 94 RESERVE- Glidepath Firelight 175,DOM APR 88. Don't worry about if it is a good deal unless you first figure out if it is good gear for you. I see you are a corrections officer. I presume you are a big guy? How much do you weigh?"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #21 April 9, 2008 QuoteThe line should be drawn somewhere. 20 years looks reasonable. That's a problem I have noticed with skydiving and skydiving gear now. People are using arbitrary time periods that "seem reasonable". When anyone has decided that 20 years is a limit they have simply pulled it out of their ass. They have not based it on anything scientific. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #22 April 9, 2008 Quote When anyone has decided that 20 years is a limit they have simply pulled it out of their ass. After 20 years in there, I'm not sure I'd want to jump it That said, I agree with Gary. We used to jump students on much older gear without worrying at all. However, the increased speeds of freeflying can make things more problematic, and I'll admit that in the bad/good old days, there were a number of problem scenarios that just didn't bother us. Well, until they started to. But 20 years is pretty arbitrary. Maybe someone should do a designed experiment (would have to be destructive) on skydiving gear stored in various configurations. Yeah, like people would volunteer their gear for that! Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #23 April 9, 2008 Quote Quote The line should be drawn somewhere. 20 years looks reasonable. That's a problem I have noticed with skydiving and skydiving gear now. People are using arbitrary time periods that "seem reasonable". When anyone has decided that 20 years is a limit they have simply pulled it out of their ass. They have not based it on anything scientific. 20 years rule for reserve and H/C is enforced in several european contries. There is nothing that we can do about it here. I have a VectorII and a glidepath Crickett reserve from `91, so 3 seasons left if it gets through the annual inspection. I have to retire it or I can sell it for a really low price for someone from US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #24 April 9, 2008 Quote But 20 years is pretty arbitrary. Maybe someone should do a designed experiment (would have to be destructive) on skydiving gear stored in various configurations. Ah, but see that's what we're suposed to have riggers for. They are certifying the air worthy condition of the system, not just repacking it.( I know you know that, just pointing it out for the masses)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #25 April 9, 2008 QuoteAh, but see that's what we're suposed to have riggers for. They are certifying the air worthy condition of the system, not just repacking it. Handy thing, being able to take it to Bob when Joe says it's unairworthy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
