Using own gear after AFF?

[mnealtx 0]

I've read through the SIM and done searches here and come up dry.

Is there any requirement to use the student gear after getting through AFF?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[AggieDave 6]

There is no requirement, however, you are still a student until you get your A license, so you must have an AAD and a RSL (although the RSL can be waived...talk to your S&TA about it if need be).

We've had students do this before; however, you really really need to talk to your instructors about your gear choice to make sure they're ok with it. An extreme would be having finished AFF in 9 jumps and bought a nice new Mirage with a XF2 109 and a PD-r 113 in it...nope, can't jump it.

I know you'll talk to your instructors about your gear choices.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

Of course I'll talk to the I's... isn't that a given? I was wondering if there was something I was missing in the SIM or other regs I hadn't seen. The only reference I saw in the SIM was the "suitable equipment" reference.


DZ gear: Mirage RTS student rig / Skymaster 240 / Raven II / Student Cypress

My gear: Vector 3 / Sabre II 230 / PDR 218 / Expert Cypress

So, I guess we'll see!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[sunshine 2]

If you owned a rig that was set up properly, you could jump that from level 1. Ownership is not an issue at all. Just being properly set up is the issue.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[mnealtx 0]

That's what I had gathered from reading the SIM, but I wasn't sure.

Looks as if it would qualify, based on this:

SIM Section 2.1, para K.2

2. All students are to be equipped with the following
equipment until they have obtained a USPA A license:
a. a rigid helmet (except tandem students) [NW]
b. a piggyback harness and container system that
includes a single-point riser release and a reserve
static line, except: [FB]
(1) A student who has been cleared for freefall
self-supervision may jump without a reserve
static line upon endorsement from his or her
supervising instructor.
(2) Such endorsement may be for one jump or a
series of jumps.
c. a visually accessible altimeter [NW]
d. a functional automatic activation device that
meets the manufacturer’s recommended service
schedule [FB]
e. a ram-air main canopy suitable for student use [FB]
f. a steerable reserve canopy appropriate to the
student’s weight [FB]
g. for freefall, a ripcord-activated, spring-loaded,
pilot-chute-equipped main parachute or a bottomof-
container (BOC) throw-out pilot chute [FB]

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Dave, who exactly told you that it was OK to waive the RSL requirement for non-licensed students? Your S&TA does not have any "waiver authority" to allow such a thing.

Chuck

[GravityGirl 0]

Is your student gear a "Throw Out" system? or a "Rip Cord" system?

That would be the only factor to you now using your new gear when it arrives.

If you are trained on a student rip cord system, you would have to transition to a hand deploy or throw out.

When you are cleared to solo status, you no longer need that JM handle. As long as your gear has an RSL and AAD. Which it does.

Looking forward to getting in the air?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[mnealtx 0]

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Is your student gear a "Throw Out" system? or a "Rip Cord" system?

Student gear is throw-out

Quote

When you are cleared to solo status, you no longer need that JM handle. As long as your gear has an RSL and AAD. Which it does.

I know I'll have to use the student gear for my re-currency jump - no problem with that

[billvon 2,400]

>Is there any requirement to use the student gear after getting through AFF?

There is no requirement to use 'student gear' at all, ever. We had a large rig owned by a local jumper (Mighty Mak reserve, PD300 main) that we borrowed for our really big AFF students. As long as it meets the regulatory requirements (RSL, AAD) the course-specific requirements (deployment system, reserve system) and the student-specific requirements (canopy size, harness size) there's no problem with using any gear that's appropriate for the student.

[mnealtx 0]

Thank you, everyone. I appreciate the info!!

That is gonna make going back home and getting back in the air that much sweeter!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[sunshine 2]

Quote

That is gonna make going back home and getting back in the air that much sweeter!

Will there be a party? If so, count me in!!

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

That is gonna make going back home and getting back in the air that much sweeter!

Will there be a party? If so, count me in!!

Well, I'm sure I'm going to owe MANY cases... so sure, why not!!

I've got the alcohol... (lessee... Shiner, Gentleman Jack and Patron).... I suppose we'll need food, huh?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[avgjoe 0]

Quote

Dave, who exactly told you that it was OK to waive the RSL requirement for non-licensed students? Your S&TA does not have any "waiver authority" to allow such a thing.

Chuck

SIM 2-1 K 2 b

(1)A student who has been cleared for freefall self-supervision may jump without a RSL upon the endorsement from his or her supervising instructor.

(2) such endorsement may be for one jump or a series of jumps.

Avgjoe

Hook it for safety

[GravityGirl 0]

Oh hell! If there is going to be alcohol and food, I may just have to save you some shipping charges!!!!!

Houston?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[NWFlyer 2]

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I've got the alcohol... (lessee... Shiner, Gentleman Jack and Patron).... I suppose we'll need food, huh?

Holy crap. Shiner and Patron? Sounds like my kind of party!

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[MikeForsythe 0]

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There is no requirement to use 'student gear' at all, ever.

Really, so you are saying that a DZ does not have the authority to "require" certain equipment for the students?

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Quote

SIM 2-1 K 2 b

(1)A student who has been cleared for freefall self-supervision may jump without a RSL upon the endorsement from his or her supervising instructor.

(2) such endorsement may be for one jump or a series of jumps.

Avgjoe

Hook it for safety

Perhaps that's all the time I spent teaching at the GB club on Bragg coming through. In military clubs the BSR's are the law....period. There is no waivering of any BSR when it comes to student training at all. Likewise, I do not think there is a dropzone in this region that would waiver a sub-A-license student to jump gear that does not meet minimum BSR's for student training. Who knows though, I may be wrong. It would certainly never happen here at Raeford. It's only 25 jumps you know.

Chuck

[bch7773 0]

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An extreme would be having finished AFF in 9 jumps and bought a nice new Mirage with a XF2 109 and a PD-r 113 in it...nope, can't jump it.

at our DZ we had a student still on his static lines buy a container with a 135 main with a 150 reserve off E-bay. he weighs maybe 200 lbs geared up. yeah, we told him he can't jump it.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Nightingale 0]

I had my own gear around jump 15 or so. Perris encourages the students to start jumping square1 gear right after AFF.

[AggieDave 6]

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Dave, who exactly told you that it was OK to waive the RSL requirement for non-licensed students?

Uhhhh...the SIM did. For those past AFF (cleared for "self supervised freefall") it is a waiverable item.

Now, I don't fully agree that it should be waiverable, but that's not up to me or you, its up to his S&TA.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

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Oh hell! If there is going to be alcohol and food, I may just have to save you some shipping charges!!!!!

Houston?

Yes'm, Houston... well, outside of Houston at Waller, but close enough!

Hey, any excuse is a good excuse to have a party, right??

Hmm...food... I'll have to find a local grocery store when I get there.....

What's the general consensus.... chicken...some sausage... maybe a brisket?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

I've got the alcohol... (lessee... Shiner, Gentleman Jack and Patron).... I suppose we'll need food, huh?

Holy crap. Shiner and Patron? Sounds like my kind of party!

Hey, life is too short to not drink good liquor!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

BTW.... tentative planning for this event is the first part of June... dates are still a bit up in the air but hopefully the first 3 weeks of June...

.... or else the last 3 weeks...
Hell, I think I may be better off just buying a keg!

Lessee....
First gear
First coach jump
(hopefully) "A" license
I've already been told I'm gonna get swooped once I'm licensed...
and I'm sure ppl will be finding other firsts for me to buy for....

Hmm...do riggers get a bottle for the initial packjob on a new reserve?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[peregrinerose 0]

I started gear shopping (with the DZO in charge of what I'd buy) after my first jump. Actually owned it by jump 10 or 11. Even with my recurrency jumps, I have used my own. Obviously I'm still a student and 4 jumps from a license. Here's hoping for blue skies on Sunday!

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[billvon 2,400]

>Really, so you are saying that a DZ does not have the authority
>to "require" certain equipment for the students?

The DZO could require you to wear a silly hat and pink underwear if he/she wants. They are the ultimate say in what goes on at their DZ. There is no USPA probibition against using "non-student" gear as long as the gear meets the FAA and USPA rules for use with students (i.e. main and reserve, reserve repacked within 120 days, AAD etc.)