tracking

[moth 0]

Ive just finished AFF and i am in the middle of my consols and for the last few jumps have been practicing tracking. However i am struggling to stay on heading, i have been and will continue to ask advice from my instructors, but i thought i would see if there is any tips out there in the giant pool of knowledge that is dropzone.com. Thx for any advice.

[mattjw916 2]

Coach jumps with video are the best way to figure out what you are doing wrong. Anyone who offers advice here is really just guessing since they can't see you in the air.

I was taught to pick a heading off in the distance for reference and make sure you are pushing your legs down evenly maintaining your chest level to the relative wind. If you start potato chipping or turning, just stop, take a deep breath and start again.

Like everything, it just takes practice...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Peej 0]

That's good advice you've just been given.

Another thing that an instructor friend of mine mentioned when we were talking about tracking many moons ago was to pick the spot where you want to be and visualise being there already.

The point of a track is to find clean air to delpoy and to put distance between you and the other skydivers on your jump. Visualising as far a i'm concerned is a big part of doing.

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[Reginald 0]

How close are you brining your arms in to your side and how close together are you brining your legs in together? Many students try to emulate a track they’ve seen from a person with thousands of jumps where arms and legs are together and the body is as sleek as a bullet. This is a very efficient track but also very unstable. Of course ask your instructors first, but it helps many students to keep their arms out to their sides at about a 45 for stability and control. It won’t be quite as fast of a track but a tad slower and on heading is better than fast and in circles! The issue you are facing is a very common one at your level. Don’t sweat it. I know guys with thousands of jumps that continue to work on their track every time they jump. It’s one of the harder skills to learn and one that you will work on your entire skydiving career.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[NWFlyer 2]

Still on student status myself, but I've found my most successful tracks are when I pick a road or railroad tracks on the ground and track along them. Track, turn 180, track back. Gives me very immediate feedback when I'm off heading. I also agree that the "delta" (hands at 45 degree angle) is easier to learn before you try a flat track.

Oh yeah. As always, breathe. Relax. I forget to do that and all bets are off and things get squirrelly really quick.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Bandanarama 0]

You've got some great advice above! With regards to picking your reference points such as roads, etc., just make sure they are perpendicular to the flight line. Look out the plane on the way up to altitude and pick your reference points. That way, you ensure you are not tracking into someone else's air space.

Anyway, your best bet is to breakaway from your dive routines higher than normal and start your tracking motions slowly. In other words, move your arms out 45 degrees and extend your legs fully keeping them 6-12 inches apart. Cup your shoulders a tad bit and de-arch a tad too.

You will start to feel an increase in your horizontal speed. You will also feel any stability issues when you transition slower and then pick up your momentum. Then you can try to bring in your arms and legs some finding your comfort zone. As mentioned previously, if you become unstable, pause and gain stability and give it another go.

Of course, everyone has fun with their first few tracks. It's a never ending process to improve no matter how many jumps you have. You'll find in the near future, you'll enjoy just doing dedicated tracking dives.

One last tip: Search the Dropzone.com Forums for tips on whatever activity you are trying to improve. There's tons of great tips and learning resources here!

:o)

___________________________________________________

One's destination is never a place, but rather a new way of looking at things. ~ Henry Miller

[Reginald 0]

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I also agree that the "delta" (hands at 45 degree angle) is easier to learn before you try a flat track.

The difference between a flat track and a delta is not arm position. A Delta is a dive whereas a flat track is… um flat. Arms being at a 45 have nothing to do with whether or not you are diving. You can do a good flat track with your arms at a 45 for stability.

Also, I would not suggest looking straight down to determine if you are on heading or not. Looking down is very deceiving, you could be all over the place and it might appear to be reasonably on heading; the higher you are the less reliable looking down is. The horizon is a better gauge of weather or not you are on heading because it works equally as well at any altitude and small changes are perceptible.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[NWFlyer 2]

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The difference between a flat track and a delta is not arm position. A Delta is a dive whereas a flat track is… um flat. Arms being at a 45 have nothing to do with whether or not you are diving. You can do a good flat track with your arms at a 45 for stability.

Thanks for the clarification - as I clearly stated in my original response, I'm still on student status thus still figuring out all the subtleties and terminology. Your response prompted me to do some searching and I found this thread (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1350573) which appears to outline quite well the differences between flat track and delta and how they're used in student progressions and by experienced jumpers. So hey, I've learned something new today

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Also, I would not suggest looking straight down to determine if you are on heading or not. Looking down is very deceiving, you could be all over the place and it might appear to be reasonably on heading; the higher you are the less reliable looking down is. The horizon is a better gauge of weather or not you are on heading because it works equally as well at any altitude and small changes are perceptible.

I guess the more I think about it, I don't look straight down at anything to gain a heading, but more at something out in front of me on the ground (such as a road or railroad tracks stretching off into the distance), so it ends up being somewhere in between looking only at the horizon or only at the ground. It's worked well for me so far, but as always, YMMV. It's a technique that was suggested by my instructors, and as always, your instructors will have the best feedback for your situation.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Scrumpot 1]

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It's worked well for me so far, but as always, YMMV.

The only way you will TRULY KNOW this is if either one of your instructors come up with you and observe you, and/or you do either a coached or "buddy" (doesn't have to be a coach) jump. Please be careful in stating and then further thinking (assuming) that this IS "working" for you. You could very well instead be ingraining very poor "tracking habits", and you otherwise just would have absolutely no way (on your own... ...solo) of KNOWING that.

You need something to guage yourself against (ie another more experienced jumper in the air with you) as a measure of your progression, and to give you an honest assessment and some feedback at this stage, and although practicing solo CAN be helpful; every so often you will NEED that feedback in order to truly tell. Not a flame, JMO.

You are of course absolutely CORRECT to check with your instructors, and mentors on ANYTHING you get from and otherwise just hear from here though.

Blue Skies!
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[NWFlyer 2]

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The only way you will TRULY KNOW this is if either one of your instructors come up with you and observe you, and/or you do either a coached or "buddy" (doesn't have to be a coach) jump. Please be careful in stating and then further thinking (assuming) that this IS "working" for you. You could very well instead be ingraining very poor "tracking habits", and you otherwise just would have absolutely no way (on your own... ...solo) of KNOWING that.

Fair enough - maybe I haven't been clear enough in my posts - because I am still on student status I have (and take advantage of) numerous opportunities for instructor/coach observation and feedback (and have and do encourage other students to do that).

I plan to continue doing this as licensed jumper. If I say something is "working for me" it means I've had it validated by an instructor.

[Scrumpot 1]

Not being disparaging. Just an observational / experience only. I've jumped with people who THINK they are "excellent trackers" with 10x's (plus) your jump numbers who for, whatever their individual reason(s) just DON'T HAVE A CLUE! Most of the time in talking with them after the jump, I find they have solo "practiced" something they THOUGHT was effective and "working", when in reality they were instead "tracking" nearly STRAIGHT DOWN (or worse ..."Bannana-clipping") and they didn't even realize it.

Having your track OBSERVED and ASSESSED and then "coached", as has already been mentioned in here is the only way to truly tell. And it's much better to tell under that circumstance and deal with it if need be, than on the time when say- you get on that first 8, 10, 12, 15, 18 or 20-way and it instead because you HAVEN'T gets you (and somebody else too as a possible result) in real trouble!

Just another thought/observation/perspective to consider, that's all. I appreciate your thoughts and perspectives here as well! Agree?

THANKS! -Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[jumpgod 0]

Agreed. Use a coach.

Pick a point on the ground and fly towards it -- don't think too much just do it ;)

"dude, where's my main?"

[ZoneRat 0]

Take this with a grain of salt... I'm neither an instructor nor a guru....but if I were to teach someone just off student status how to track, I would break it down like this:

1. Pick an appropriate heading.
2. De-arch as though you wanted to go up. Roll your shoulders to cup your chest, and cup your belly.
3. Legs out... begin forward movement. (Stay de-arched during this). Feel the pressure on your lower legs.
4. Stay de-arched while you slowly transition your arms back to a flat track. Increase the pressure of the air on your legs. Really get 'em out there!
5. Be prepared to sacrifice your de-arch, etc, to maintain stability and heading control.

Note that outside of altitude awareness, stability and heading control are the most important aspects involved. Staying flat is number 3.

Practice every jump.

By transitioning from a modified cup to a flat track, you save a lot of altitude commonly sacrificed by those that choose to go from a delta to a flat track.

Also remember that a good flat track is a very physical action. Takes a tad more muscle than a lot of other things. You should feel the strength it takes to keep those legs straight. You should feel that you're really rolling those shoulders and cupping the chest and belly.

As you improve, you'll get to where you can de-arch, turn and legs-out quickly with stability. Also you can tweak in your arms and bring your legs closer together... but much of that will come later.

Anyway... this is just Robin Theory. This is not the way I was taught to flat track. It's just something I think makes sense. (but I'm wrong a lot, lol) ... so run it by people you know and trust and see what they think about it before you adopt any of it.

Good luck with it!
Robin

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[yarpos 4]

only my opinion but the most effective tracking I have ever seen is on these videos

http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~hansho/

this is tracking during BASE in Norway

their stance is wider in arms and legs than normally taught in skydiving (at least where I was taught and progressed) and from what I here reapeated her. It ceratinly provides oustanding flight but also allows stable turns in flight as you will see if you take the time to watch. One of the flights is also some of the best sweaty palm material I have seen in a long time as the guys deliberatley overfly high ground and out track the slope of the mountain

wishing I was there and wishing I has that skill (working on it)

Steve

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[Scrumpot 1]

With all due respect, base tracking and f/f tracking in order to break off from a formation falling at terminal velocity are 2 entirely different things AND (as you indirectly point out) techniques.

Base tracking in this context definitely looks impressive (and IS); however, the speeds (prior to terminal with exception for some of the longer /higher base dives) are vastly different and non-comparable to each other. You will note even with base trackers that once their vertical speeds approach terminal, that their hands & leg positions will (only) then resemble F/F tracking. But they WILL also, and again only in situations where applicable ...after they approach terminal F/F, speeds (where applicable) get to a full track as well.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Zoter 0]

Somebody suggested to me tracking with arms by your side....palms facing UPand wrist angled so that your fingers point towards your leg....
This helps roll your shoulders and help you cup air....and make your track that little bit flatter.
I tried it and it works for me...

I practice it every day on may way to/back from work...!!....theres a nice little quiet stretch of ringroad around Regents Park, London thats on my work route......I speed up my scooter up to 60mph and put my left arm in the position and experiment.....feeling what position change does to the air resistance.
Sad or what....

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[yarpos 4]

sorry fail to see the difference.

terminal velocity is terminal velocity (my post has nothing to do with low object BASE), if you look at the vids they are all big walls. In case of the one of the more famous walls its 10-12 secs straight down, high 20 secs out if you are among the top trackers.

I stand by the comments, those guys have a different technique and it rocks.

Steve

PS: BTW I am not being -ve about the traditional approach, there is a great video of Dougss out tracking the talus at a site in Norway. He has awesome speed and distance and it looks from the video to be a skydive style legs more together track. I would like to learn the other method as it looks easier to bank and change direction in the wider stance, and certainly dooesnt lack performance.

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[riggerrob 558]

Robin Theory is better than old-school.
The problem with old-school "shaping" from a delta is that most people learn the horizontal part of tracking, but few learn the slow-fall part of tracking.
New-school/Arizona Airspeed says to follow Robin Theory and start by learning how to slow-fall, than add horizontal drive.