Failing AFF?

[astro556 0]

Hi all,

Here's the story: I paid for the AFF course up front, and made five jumps in two days. After the last one, I was advised that I'm "unsafe and a hazard to myself" and would not be allowed to continue. Needless to say, I was a little upset, not to mention the "no refund or raincheck" on the remaining two jumps.

Here's a rundown of what happened:
- I had two pretty bad exits, the first jump I literally fell off the plane and eventually got stable. The other I hesitated and left the cameraman behind.
- The last three jumps I had problems keeping stable, I kept going into a spin, but managed to remain belly to earth.
- I was aware of my altitude, and pulled 4/5 times. (the first jump I couldn't find the PC..)
- Under canopy I think I did well...Had no problems learning and flying the pattern, and stood up 4/5 landings.
- No problem learning/practicing the emergency procedures, or any of the other material...

After watching the videos I realize what my problems were - looking down too much, not arching enough, and trying to fight with the wind to stay stable. So, I guess my question is - do you think they were justified in asking me to leave?

[bigway 4]

Hard to say over the internet as you have only given your side of the story and with your side being the side from a person with no experience and being a person who has been asked not to return to their dropzone... it is a hard one to even attempt to answer.

The plus side you have on your side is that I dont understand why or how they would let you do 5 AFF jumps in two days if you are bad enough for them to ask you to never return. That seems a bit unfair as 3 jumps AFF jumps in one day is alot of work and takes up a hell of alot of adrenaline for a non experienced jumper.

Seems very unfair from that side of things.


However, answering such a question based on the points you have made are irrelevant as it is coming from an unexperienced jumpers opinion.

Personally, I am glad you did not name and shame a dropzone on a public forum but i do hope the instructors notice this post and let us know their side of the story.


I believe if you are safe enough to be allowed to do 5 jumps then they should take responsibility and get you up to a standard where you are allowed to jump more and complete the course.

Sorry for your experience, it seems very unprofessional and i make that comment only from the fact that they allowed you to do 5 jumps in 2 days only to turn around and ask you never to return.

I hope we find more out about this but i do think you are a good man for not naming and shaming the dropzone in your first post. It would be hard to refrain from doing that in your position.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[bigway 4]

You say that you could not find the PC... dont think i have ever heard a AFF student say that before. Usually they say, i could not find the Pilot chute or, i could not find the ripcord. Does your dropzone teach you with a BOC?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[astro556 0]

If it helps, here's the video from jump 1 & 2... Sorry, it's my first attempt at editing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSHCH5aRLyU

[astro556 0]

Yea, pilot chute...My attempt at abbreviating.

[PeregrineFalcon 0]

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However, answering such a question based on the points you have made are irrelevant as it is coming from an unexperienced jumpers opinion.

I think it's perfectly ok for an inexperienced jumper to give his opinion on this. I'm going to do it!

Six plus hours of ground instruction followed by your first jump is a LOT for one person to handle. For them to say, "Yeah, come up for four more jumps today," is them being too distanced from the time when they were new to the sport. It helps to take a few days off, look at the video, see your mistakes, contemplate what you're going to do better, hell, just experiencing the buzz you had from that first jump!

That was from a newbie's position. This next thing I'm about to say I will admit I'm unqualified to give as a definite. I'm going to say it anyway. Or rather...put it as a question for other instructors to answer. Wouldn't most DZ's fail him at level 2 or something and make him repeat it another day?

[AggieDave 6]

Go hit a tunnel with a coach and them come back and try again.

The sports not for everyone, but you might be able to salvage what you've got and progress past your stalling point here.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[cmdrjay1 0]

I went through AFF recently and flying in the tunnel helped me tremendously, not only with the freefall skills, but feeling comfortable on the jumps. PM me and I can give you a number for an excellent tunnel coach in your area.

[bigway 4]

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However, answering such a question based on the points you have made are irrelevant as it is coming from an unexperienced jumpers opinion.

I think it's perfectly ok for an inexperienced jumper to give his opinion on this. I'm going to do it!

Six plus hours of ground instruction followed by your first jump is a LOT for one person to handle. For them to say, "Yeah, come up for four more jumps today," is them being too distanced from the time when they were new to the sport. It helps to take a few days off, look at the video, see your mistakes, contemplate what you're going to do better, hell, just experiencing the buzz you had from that first jump!

That was from a newbie's position. This next thing I'm about to say I will admit I'm unqualified to give as a definite. I'm going to say it anyway. Or rather...put it as a question for other instructors to answer. Wouldn't most DZ's fail him at level 2 or something and make him repeat it another day?

What i meant it maybe the facts he has stated are only HIS version of events and is not everything the instructor saw to make his opinion.
So for us to give our opinion on only half a story is not really helpful to his problem.

It would take a hell of alot for a dropzone to turn away a future customer for life. Those decisions are not taken lightly by a business.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[Bertt 0]

You did jumps 1 and 2 with only one instructor?? Was I watching the right video?

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[bigway 4]

Pretty big arch!

I hear of a new programme where you only jump with one instructor but that is in NZ, i think it is from jump 2 onwards.

I would love to hear the full story on this and why you are not allowed to return as your video looked pretty good for jump one or two apart from the fact that there was not two instructors there to keep you stable on exit.

As for the cameraman leaving early cause you stalled, that is not your problem and is the last thing you should ever worry about. I sure hope they did not give you stick for that.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[anthonyfellows 0]

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If it helps, here's the video from jump 1 & 2... Sorry, it's my first attempt at editing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSHCH5aRLyU

You only had one instructor during your first two jumps?

Serious relationships turn into work after a few weeks and I already got a fucking job :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
H.A.F. = Hard As Fuck ... Goddamn Amateurs

[astro556 0]

Yea, all of them were with just one instructor... That was the first two jumps, I'll have the other three later, I don't feel like spending all night editing.

Luckily I was able to figure out how to land, no radio or ground signaling!

[anthonyfellows 0]

Are you in the United States?

Serious relationships turn into work after a few weeks and I already got a fucking job :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
H.A.F. = Hard As Fuck ... Goddamn Amateurs

[bigway 4]

If you did not have a radio or ground signalling on your first two jumps how do you know that this is what is expected?


I get this feeling you are building up to get everyone on side and then to name a dropzone you have bad blood with. Something seems strange about this but maybe it is just my mind playing tricks on me.


From what you have said so far it seems like you got the bad end of the stick.

So how did you know radio and ground signals are expected if you were not taught with them?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[labrys 0]

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You say that you could not find the PC... dont think i have ever heard a AFF student say that before.

There's something a bit odd about this that I can't figure out how to express.

The video looks a lot more like the videos I've seen of AFF pre-course or practice jumps than of actual student AFF jumps.

Owned by Remi #?

[bigway 4]

***

Im thinking the same thing.

He registered in June 2008 and this is his first post. He says 'PC' and talks about not having radio or ground signlas when he would not know that is expected if he is not told about them.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[astro556 0]

I did my first tandem in June - I wanted to learn more about the sport so I signed up on this forum and read a couple books. I never posted anything here because I had practically no experience.

If you don't believe me, I'll scan my logbook.

[labrys 0]

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If you don't believe me, I'll scan my logbook.

Please do that. It would be interesting to compare your instructor's thoughts with the video. Please don't include the DZ or instructor's name for now. Let's leave this as objective as possible.

Owned by Remi #?

[NickDG 23]

How many tandems did you do before the two jumps in the video?

NickD

[bigway 4]

I have been told that the DZ you jump at uses the 1AFFi routine and that you are probably straight up.

I look forward to hearing more about this and hope that DZ replies to you.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[astro556 0]

Sorry for the picture quality...

1-2: http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2694/82000251ud8.jpg

3-4: http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/148/68574089tj0.jpg

5: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1870/59922693it2.jpg

[JohnDeere 0]

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Sorry for the picture quality...

1-2: http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2694/82000251ud8.jpg

3-4: http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/148/68574089tj0.jpg

5: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1870/59922693it2.jpg

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[PeregrineFalcon 0]

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Wouldn't most DZ's fail him at level 2 or something and make him repeat it another day?

Whoa. 22 replies on this thread already. I came back to refute what I said here before and I'll bet that once I read the thread, I'll find someone else has already done it for me. When I made this statement, I was assuming they didn't fail you. Did you fail one or two times and kept insisting that you go up that same day?

[PeregrineFalcon 0]

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If it helps, here's the video from jump 1 & 2... Sorry, it's my first attempt at editing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSHCH5aRLyU

You only had one instructor during your first two jumps?

Not only did have one instructor on his first jump, but I SWEAR there was a point where he was released on that second jump. It was hard to see your exits though, since the cameraman jumped so much earlier than you did. This is all very interesting. I think it's funny that both your landings were behind that tall grass. I'm off to watch the other three videos.