interesting sutiation - try'n'buy + cutaway.

[likestojump 3]

So I was selling a rig, and the person requested I ship it to a well known rigger in their area. After Inspection they determined that the harness is not that great of a fit, but decided to jump it anyways. A subsequent crappy main packjob resulted in a chop (their assessment, no mine). Now they say since the harness does not fit as well as they would like, they don't want to buy the rig.

Do you think it's reasonable to ask them to get the reserve repacked and inspected and add some extra $$$ on top as the chop was obviously due to packer negligence, and not gear malfunction ?

Points:
The rig was sent to them with the reserve in-date.
They were not charged anything as this was a try'n'buy
They were advised of the harness size and measurements prior to deciding to demo the rig
They agreed that they will be responsible for anything that's not regular wear and tear

[jceman 1]

They definetly should return it as it was sent -- with reserve pack in date; but I see no reason they should add, as you say "extra $$", if there was nothing damaged on the rig.

Both parties took their chances on the "try n' buy"; if the decision is not to buy, fine. All should be returned to square one.

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

[danielcroft 2]

+1!

[Squeak 17]

absolutely they should pay for the repack, they got a rig in date ready to jump, they return a rig in date ready to jump.
I cant see any grey area here.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[skybytch 259]

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All should be returned to square one.

But... but... they didn't buy it from Square One!

[brettski74 0]

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Do you think it's reasonable to ask them to get the reserve repacked and inspected and add some extra $$$ on top as the chop was obviously due to packer negligence, and not gear malfunction ?

It's certainly reasonable and I don't see why any reasonable person would have a problem paying for said repack. That said, if I were to enter into a similar deal, I would have such terms spelled out in writing and signed at the very least before shipping anything. If you can negotiate a deposit all the better. Depending on the circumstances and how comfortable you are with the deal, you might even want to consider a repack deposit, even if just held in escrow by the rigger before shipping the rig for repack.

[Baksteen 84]

Have them pay for the repack: yes.
Any reasonable person would not think twice about paying without being asked. I hope.
Same goes for stuff like lost freebag, handles and so on.

Charge extra money just because they put an additional jump on the reserve: no.

Think of it this way; you're getting the rig back with a repack that's [so many] weeks later overdue than the one you sent it off with.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[JohnRich 4]

Your rig saved his life. He owes you a repack.

If he wants to get all whiny about it, then pro-rate the repack fee. For example, if it was 60-days into a 120-day repack cycle, then he owes you half the cost of the repack. The reason for that is that you are the beneficiary of the extra 60 days you'll get beyond the original repack.

But he should man-up and just pay for it all, for all the trouble you went to on his behalf.

[airtwardo 6]

But he should man-up and just pay for it all, for all the trouble you went to on his behalf.

That AND a case of ...since it was his 1st jump on the rig!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[kkeenan 13]

Did you expect them (or anyone) to buy your reserve without looking at it ? How did you expect to sell the reserve and keep the previous pack job intact ?

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[airtwardo 6]

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Did you expect them (or anyone) to buy your reserve without looking at it ? How did you expect to sell the reserve and keep the previous pack job intact ?

Kevin K.

Lookin' is one thing fillin' it up with dirty old air is somethin' else!

Either way it should be returned as received if the buyer declines purchase.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[likestojump 3]

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Did you expect them (or anyone) to buy your reserve without looking at it ? How did you expect to sell the reserve and keep the previous pack job intact ?

Kevin K.

They were not buying a reserve, they were buying a complete rig. The reserve was in date and had a seal on it. Please read what I wrote.

[AggieDave 6]

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They were not buying a reserve, they were buying a complete rig.

Pre-buy for me would include popping the reserve for inspection by MY rigger, whom I trust. All riggers are not created equal!

That would be followed by a repack by my rigger and sent back in the condition I received the rig, if I did not purchase the rig.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[likestojump 3]

ok, so looks like we all agree that a reserve repack is to be expected.

What about the subsequent loss of value due to the reserve use ? As they stated, it was THEIR negligence that caused the need for a reserve ride. And now when I will sell the rig it will we worth less as it has one extra reserve activation.

Furthermore, to solidify my point - they really did not even need to jump it, as they determined beforehand that the fit is not to their liking.

What do you say ?

[skybytch 259]

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Pre-buy for me would include popping the reserve for inspection by MY rigger, whom I trust. All riggers are not created equal!

What he said. In addition, without seeing it with my own eyes, how do I know for sure that it is what the seller says it is?

[likestojump 3]

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They were not buying a reserve, they were buying a complete rig.

Pre-buy for me would include popping the reserve for inspection by MY rigger, whom I trust. All riggers are not created equal!

That would be followed by a repack by my rigger and sent back in the condition I received the rig, if I did not purchase the rig.

moot point, as that's not part of the situation I am asking to evaluate :(

I am still thankful for your answer, to extrapolate - what if the original in-date packjob was sealed by a very well known and respected master rigger, would YOU still have your rigger do and I&R ?

[likestojump 3]

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Pre-buy for me would include popping the reserve for inspection by MY rigger, whom I trust. All riggers are not created equal!

What he said. In addition, without seeing it with my own eyes, how do I know for sure that it is what the seller says it is?

ok all. I am not arguing having a rigger look at the reserve. I am asking if you consider it reasonable to expect the "buyer" to provide a repack and pay some $$$ for loss of value.

[airtwardo 6]

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They were not buying a reserve, they were buying a complete rig.

Pre-buy for me would include popping the reserve for inspection by MY rigger, whom I trust. All riggers are not created equal!

That would be followed by a repack by my rigger and sent back in the condition I received the rig, if I did not purchase the rig.

moot point, as that's not part of the situation I am asking to evaluate :(

I am still thankful for your answer, to extrapolate - what if the original in-date packjob was sealed by a very well known and respected master rigger, would YOU still have your rigger do and I&R ?

I would, but only if i were seriously going to buy it...as you stated since it didn't fit to the potential buyers liking all he was doing is getting a free 'rental' usage of a rig he knew he didn't want anyway...you should IMHO be made 'whole' again by a fresh re-pack, shipping costs and few bucks to smooth over the rough edges about the 'loss of value'.


If it didn't fit to his liking, wrong color, smelled funny...whatever, then it should have just been returned as received and not jumped.

It's kinda like buying a used car from private party classified ad, ya actually go SEE the car and realize it's not quite what you're looking for....but what the hell, ya drive it all weekend anyway, get a flat and expect the seller to fix the tire, pay for your gas and give ya a little road-head.

You got something coming, how much is the discussion that 'should' be being addressed by you & the 'buyer'.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[AggieDave 6]

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what if the original in-date packjob was sealed by a very well known and respected master rigger, would YOU still have your rigger do and I&R ?

Yup. Its all about personal trust with riggers.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[airtwardo 6]

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what if the original in-date packjob was sealed by a very well known and respected master rigger, would YOU still have your rigger do and I&R ?

Yup. Its all about personal trust with riggers.

Exactly...I have a rig I haven't jumped in 10 years that's still sealed by a respected rigger, and I have an ink pen!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skybytch 259]

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what if the original in-date packjob was sealed by a very well known and respected master rigger, would YOU still have your rigger do and I&R ?

Considering that I've seen a reserve that hadn't had work required by an SB done that was packed by a very well known and respected master rigger... yup, my rigger would be repacking it.

As for the extra $$... I wouldn't expect someone to pay above and beyond the repack if I let them use my rig (regardless of who packed the main) and they had to chop. imho, by telling them they could jump it without a clear understanding that you expected extra money if they used the reserve, you took on that risk.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Your rig saved his life. He owes you a repack.

Agreed.
That being said, every try-n-buy, just like every jump, is by definition a potential reserve ride. To avoid disputes from any ambiguity (real or perceived), responsibility for reserve re-pack is best set down in writing in advance.

[danielcroft 2]

I would have thought that the independent rigger would be telling the erstwhile buyer this. Seems logical: you break it, you bought it.

[kkeenan 13]

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... what if the original in-date packjob was sealed by a very well known and respected master rigger, would YOU still have your rigger do and I&R ?

Absolutely. You seem to be having a difficult time believing that people feel this way, even after several have written the same thing. Someone may jump a reserve packed by your favorite rigger, but to buy it unseen is another story.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[rehmwa 2]

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ok, so looks like we all agree that a reserve repack is to be expected.

What about the subsequent loss of value due to the reserve use ?

if he didn't offer the cost of the reserve repack, then he's as cheap as you, but I bet he did.....

there's no loss of value with a single jump on a reserve - that's nuts - did he damage the reserve in any way? did the main land in power lines or on a barbed wire fence? did the reserve pilot chute get bent? those all matter, but a jump cycle? nuts

he owes you a repack, that's all, a whole repack and no pro-rated pack dollars either - preferably a repack at your rigger, not his though.

if you're really going to whine about it, you could ask for a single jump rental fee? and that would be pretty petty too

He should send your rigger a bottle of liquor though for the save - that the only thing here that makes sense to me.

tell me, how do you have the value of the rig so PERFECTLY dialed in that a single jump on one of the canopies will affect the sell price? Considering the variation of sale prices on used rigs, that's very impressive

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants