I3uller 0 #1 November 1, 2008 I'll go ahead and start off by saying that I only have 12 jumps and I don't know anything. With that out of the way, I had gotten kind of bored with just doing 360's on my belly so I decided to try out some new stuff on my last two jumps. Head down and sit flying looked cool so I went for it. My first attempt was nothing shy of horrendous (mostly wobbly back flying) but it showed me that I can get into some very unusual positions and get right back onto my belly. Video proof of my failure here ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxkp49ZIO8M ) My last jump was actually really successful though and I was holding a pretty steady sit flying position for a good couple thousand feet along with a pretty stable head down position as well. I had a D licensed guy at the DZ sign my logbook and he saw that I was free flying at 12 jumps and gave jme a strange look and asked why I was freeflying so early. I know I still have a ton to learn when it comes to belly flying, particularly in RW stuff, but since there havn't been any coaches and I don't feel experienced enough to just jump a formation with other people I just went for freeflying. Is that something that should be avoided? Thanks for any advice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grannyinthesky 0 #2 November 1, 2008 How aboaut working on the skills you need to get your A license first??"safety first... and What the hell..... safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy POPS #10490 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speuci 0 #3 November 1, 2008 QuoteVideo proof of my failure here ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxkp49ZIO8M ) I'm surprised no one's called you out yet for wearing a video cam. What sort of cam are you rocking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #4 November 1, 2008 I perhaps smell a troll. 12 jumps and the instructors are letting you freefly with a camera on your head???? “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grannyinthesky 0 #5 November 1, 2008 Could be a troll..... He just asked a couple of weeks ago about what to do on jumps 8-25 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3359247#3359247) and got some good advice he is apparently choosing to ignore."safety first... and What the hell..... safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy POPS #10490 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grannyinthesky 0 #6 November 1, 2008 QuoteI know I still have a ton to learn when it comes to belly flying, particularly in RW stuff, but since there havn't been any coaches and I don't feel experienced enough to just jump a formation with other people. Check the SIM. Who you can be jumping with is pretty limited."safety first... and What the hell..... safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy POPS #10490 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #7 November 1, 2008 I saw his other post. I suspect troll because... 1) Freeflying while wearing a camera at 12 jumps, 2) Doing this at Raeford 3) No profile information entered.“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #8 November 1, 2008 i was told that you should have good competent belly skills prior to trying to free fly.....some of the more experienced freeflyers at our dz recommend at least 100 jumps ----- not all wait for that....but you should be working on your basic skills and learn how to track ect. Your belly skills will pay off in the long run when you are freeflying with a group of people. Regardless I would think that getting your A license skills checked off prior to free flying would be the priority.....but thats just me. DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I3uller 0 #9 November 1, 2008 Lol at the troll comments. Its a tiny bullet helmet cam. Bout the size of your thumb and I don't see how that would affect anything at all. I haven't done the A license stuff because every time I've been to the DZ its been too busy for me to get any coaches and most all that stuff requires a coach. I'm also still confused as to how solo freeflying is so dangerous to where nobody would be allowed to do it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #10 November 1, 2008 QuoteLol at the troll comments. Its a tiny bullet helmet cam. Bout the size of your thumb and I don't see how that would affect anything at all. I haven't done the A license stuff because every time I've been to the DZ its been too busy for me to get any coaches and most all that stuff requires a coach. I'm also still confused as to how solo freeflying is so dangerous to where nobody would be allowed to do it? well at 12 jumps you probably don't have any concept of where you are in the sky and if you are backsliding all over the place for one --- you could run right into another group of jumpers....this is just one example....I myself had backsliding problems for 30-40 jumps....everyone is different ya know? Everyone has different skill levels and you will find that you will be very good at some things and that you will have to work at others. If the coaches are too "busy" .... call in advance or talk to them in advance to see when you can get your stuff signed off. I bet if the coaches or the dz knew you felt this way than they would make sure that you are taken care of.DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #11 November 1, 2008 FF is very dang. with little exp. and without a coach because you can so easaly (exp. head down) track up or down the jump run. Think about it if you exit after a belly group (or solo) and give a normal seperation, you will prob. be passing that group/solo belly at 4-6,000 ft. If you you track tords them (of courswe you wont know becuase you dont have the exp.) you could hit them or open directly under them. Sound safe to you???? It is harder to FU and go down jump run on your belly. You need to slow down! If you actually want to get your A then try schedulling with the DZ to get a coach for when you come out.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pontiacgtp00 0 #12 November 1, 2008 I've heard two answers to the same question. Both came from experienced jumpers. The first guy said to wait until you have 200 or 300 jumps before you freefly. The second guy said its better to start earlier than that because you don't quite have the habit to arch yet, so in turn you won't have to break that habit. But whatever, they aren't my words. I started attempting to sitfly at about jump 50. I wouldn't think of doing it with 12 jumps, just plain belly freefalling is still fun at 12 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I3uller 0 #13 November 1, 2008 QuoteFF is very dang. with little exp. and without a coach because you can so easaly (exp. head down) track up or down the jump run. Think about it if you exit after a belly group (or solo) and give a normal seperation, you will prob. be passing that group/solo belly at 4-6,000 ft. If you you track tords them (of courswe you wont know becuase you dont have the exp.) you could hit them or open directly under them. Sound safe to you???? It is harder to FU and go down jump run on your belly. You need to slow down! If you actually want to get your A then try schedulling with the DZ to get a coach for when you come out. I appreciate you actually explaining this to me and not just saying I'm retarded like other people. I've noticed in my extremely short experience in the sport that there are people like you that are helpful and teach me the things I need to know and other people that just say "you are a moron", don't actually explain why it is dangerous and why not to do it, and just dog on somebody. The elitism is ridiculous. Instead of just calling me retarded explain why I'm retarded. I wasn't thinking about tracking underneath people jumping after me because I'm inexperienced. I definatly understand the dangers of going up or down the jump run now. The only thing I could think of being dangerous would be losing control and not being in a good pull position. Now that its finally explained to me I understand and will be altering my methods. I've tried scheduling but it always seems like I'm told to just come in and grab a coach if you see one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I3uller 0 #14 November 1, 2008 QuoteI've heard two answers to the same question. Both came from experienced jumpers. The first guy said to wait until you have 200 or 300 jumps before you freefly. The second guy said its better to start earlier than that because you don't quite have the habit to arch yet, so in turn you won't have to break that habit. But whatever, they aren't my words. I started attempting to sitfly at about jump 50. I wouldn't think of doing it with 12 jumps, just plain belly freefalling is still fun at 12 jumps. Honestly, after trying sit flying I've learned a huge amount about control in freefall. I feel much more in control and I know a lot more about what will happen if I do this with this leg or that with that arm etc. After going back into a belly position I just feel much more in control than before I tried sitflying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meltdown 0 #15 November 1, 2008 There's also gear to consider. Not all gear is safe to freefly with. Have an experienced jumper at your DZ explain this to you, as you can be seriously hurt or killed as a result of a premature deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #16 November 1, 2008 QuoteIts a tiny bullet helmet cam. Bout the size of your thumb and I don't see how that would affect anything at all. An excellent read in the Photography and Video FAQ. Pay special attention to the part that Billvon posted. The list of reasons why you shouldn't be freeflying at your jump numbers is beyond my patience to type. Especially with Family Guy about to come on...so I will give you the first reason that comes to my mind that it's a bad idea....The gear you are jumping...is it freefly friendly or not???? And why is this important???“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #17 November 1, 2008 QuoteThe second guy said its better to start earlier than that because you don't quite have the habit to arch yet, so in turn you won't have to break that habit. Please do not EVER get advice from secound example.......He is ignorant at best! Having a good arch will in no way harm your FFlying! You still have to pull every jump.....there is only one good position i can think of to do that in, belly! I know what most will say....you can do that good enought after AFF or after your A lic...... But you should have a more stable belly position before you move on... You might want to stick with getting advise from first example!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #18 November 1, 2008 QuoteNow that its finally explained to me I understand and will be altering my methods. Please explane "altering my methods" QuoteI've tried scheduling but it always seems like I'm told to just come in and grab a coach if you see one. If they wont schedule you then you might want to think about switching DZ's. Where are you jumping now?Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pontiacgtp00 0 #19 November 1, 2008 QuoteQuoteThe second guy said its better to start earlier than that because you don't quite have the habit to arch yet, so in turn you won't have to break that habit. Please do not EVER get advice from secound example.......He is ignorant at best! Having a good arch will in no way harm your FFlying! You still have to pull every jump.....there is only one good position i can think of to do that in, belly! I know what most will say....you can do that good enought after AFF or after your A lic...... But you should have a more stable belly position before you move on... You might want to stick with getting advise from first example! I took the 2nd guys advice because he is the DZO and has a D license. The first guy was just a 100 jump wonder. They need to do away with the coaches rating, go to another dropzone and people will jump with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #20 November 1, 2008 Quote Quote Quote The second guy said its better to start earlier than that because you don't quite have the habit to arch yet, so in turn you won't have to break that habit. Please do not EVER get advice from secound example.......He is ignorant at best! Having a good arch will in no way harm your FFlying! You still have to pull every jump.....there is only one good position i can think of to do that in, belly! I know what most will say....you can do that good enought after AFF or after your A lic...... But you should have a more stable belly position before you move on... You might want to stick with getting advise from first example! I took the 2nd guys advice because he is the DZO and has a D license. The first guy was just a 100 jump wonder. They need to do away with the coaches rating, go to another dropzone and people will jump with you. If i was you i would find a new DZ to jump at if that is the type of "ADVISE" that your DZO gives out to new comersNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pontiacgtp00 0 #21 November 1, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote The second guy said its better to start earlier than that because you don't quite have the habit to arch yet, so in turn you won't have to break that habit. Please do not EVER get advice from secound example.......He is ignorant at best! Having a good arch will in no way harm your FFlying! You still have to pull every jump.....there is only one good position i can think of to do that in, belly! I know what most will say....you can do that good enought after AFF or after your A lic...... But you should have a more stable belly position before you move on... You might want to stick with getting advise from first example! I took the 2nd guys advice because he is the DZO and has a D license. The first guy was just a 100 jump wonder. They need to do away with the coaches rating, go to another dropzone and people will jump with you. If i was you i would find a new DZ to jump at if that is the type of "ADVISE" that your DZO gives out to new comers Funny story....I eventually did stop jumping there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #22 November 1, 2008 Is there more to this funny story???Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 2 #23 November 1, 2008 QuoteLol at the troll comments. Its a tiny bullet helmet cam. Bout the size of your thumb and I don't see how that would affect anything at all. I haven't done the A license stuff because every time I've been to the DZ its been too busy for me to get any coaches and most all that stuff requires a coach. I'm also still confused as to how solo freeflying is so dangerous to where nobody would be allowed to do it? Raeford? I do not see how anyone there is letting you do this (dumb-jumping AND not knowing the answers to those questions). Then again, I haven't read the rest of this thread yet. I hope you never go busting through a RW group while dumb-jumping.SCR #14809 "our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe" (look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pontiacgtp00 0 #24 November 1, 2008 QuoteIs there more to this funny story??? Well...yeah of course. It was like that happened...then this happened...and 3 guys walked into a bar...yadda yadda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #25 November 1, 2008 QuoteThink about it if you exit after a belly group (or solo) and give a normal seperation, you will prob. be passing that group/solo belly at 4-6,000 ft. If you you track tords them (of courswe you wont know becuase you dont have the exp.) you could hit them or open directly under them. True story from earlier this season... Relatively new A license jumper exited, with apparently good separation, after an 8-way group with camera. Joining the dots, the person was giving freeflying a go with the "what could go wrong, really?" idea. At breakoff, the 8-way group all tracked off from their centre point, which is good, because the solo had now opened right where the group had been. The camera flyer was pulling in place and got a very good, very close shot of their opening sequence as they went by. At the higher speeds achieved by even beginner freeflyers, much finer control is needed because it's possible to travel a long way horizontally without really noticing it's happening. QuoteI appreciate you actually explaining this to me and not just saying I'm retarded like other people... I've tried scheduling but it always seems like I'm told to just come in and grab a coach if you see one. You're not retarded, you're just new. Keep persisting in trying to seek out a coach to jump with, it's worth it. The main reason is that they'll teach you things like this, which aren't obvious (though people on dz.com might pretend they are) but will keep you and other people safe. But an almost as important reason is that jumps with a coach will steepen your learning curve like I can't even describe. The people I meet with 100 jumps and a lot of coaching are a completely different class of skilled compared to the people with 100 jumps and little or none. Those people seem to get brought on the more interesting and challenging jumps, which in turn accelerates their skills, and so on. (I'm leaving the camera issue aside - I don't jump camera so I can't offer advice of my own - but the reasons not to stick one on my head too early as explained to me by People Who Know were compelling enough that I didn't do it at 200 jumps when I first wanted to.)-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
